lesser known producers signing with established producers

[jbrown1music]

what do you guys think of lesser known producers signing under a big name producer. ive had a few big name producers offer me these types of deals where im under them and they take 50 percent of everything. ive turned down a few deals like that a few years ago but have not been as profitable as i have wanted to be and think that maybe i should have taking those deals to help get me more exposure then i would get on my own. for example, kanye under ddot, neptunes under teddy riley, timberland under devonte swing, danja under timberland, etc. opinions please

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by jbrown1music

what do you guys think of lesser known producers signing under a big name producer. ive had a few big name producers offer me these types of deals where im under them and they take 50 percent of everything. ive turned down a few deals like that a few years ago but have not been as profitable as i have wanted to be and think that maybe i should have taking those deals to help get me more exposure then i would get on my own. for example, kanye under ddot, neptunes under teddy riley, timberland under devonte swing, danja under timberland, etc. opinions please

First of all, make sure that your royalties are paid to you from the source,meaning from the record label,and NOT the production company.
If they balk at that,it just means that they are gonna rip you off.
You dont want them to keep half of everything.
If you are just starting out,half of the publishing is cool but not half of the writers share unless they are half writers of the joint.
It gets real dicey in the world of hip hop and not as cut and dry as in most ofher genres.
If you are the sole producer you can give THEM exec production credits.
I know that you may be just starting out,but you have got to set a precedent, otherwise they will use the shit out of you.

[wubbzy]

Uhh... PLEASE tell those "big name producers" that you turned down to give me a call! I'll do it for free just to make a name for myself and get my foot in the door. Not to mention it would be worth it to see how some of them do their thing behind the scenes.

"sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do, to get where you want to be".

Seriously though, my own personal feeling is forget about the money for now; it will come in time. Make a name for yourself then the money will flow. Again, that is how I feel.
This game is incredibly competitive and you have hundreds of thousands of people trying to get in. Why should I pay you when the next dude will do it for free? Or better yet, what do you bring to the table that is so hot that I should pay you more than 50 percent? At this stage, the "big name producer's" name alone is probably what landed the project you are working on in the first place. Therefore, if it weren't for him, you wouldn't be there anyway. So, if you're talking 50 percent of a $500,000 project (Timbaland prices), I would say "dont worry be happy". OR just give me a call and I'll drop what I'm doing to be there!

[phillysoulman]

If your shit is REALLY hot,they just might go along with the program
NO ONE wants to blow a hit.
So many hip hoppers tend to under sell themselves to get in the door,but if you dont stand your ground,you wont get no respect.

[Synthy08]

Brian all-day miller under Kanye, 1500 or nothing under Just Blaze.......i guess every1 does it.

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by wubbzy

Uhh... PLEASE tell those "big name producers" that you turned down to give me a call! I'll do it for free just to make a name for myself and get my foot in the door. Not to mention it would be worth it to see how some of them do their thing behind the scenes.

"sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do, to get where you want to be".

Seriously though, my own personal feeling is forget about the money for now; it will come in time. Make a name for yourself then the money will flow. Again, that is how I feel.
This game is incredibly competitive and you have hundreds of thousands of people trying to get in. Why should I pay you when the next dude will do it for free? Or better yet, what do you bring to the table that is so hot that I should pay you more than 50 percent? At this stage, the "big name producer's" name alone is probably what landed the project you are working on in the first place. Therefore, if it weren't for him, you wouldn't be there anyway. So, if you're talking 50 percent of a $500,000 project (Timbaland prices), I would say "dont worry be happy". OR just give me a call and I'll drop what I'm doing to be there!

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup...

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

Brian all-day miller under Kanye, 1500 or nothing under Just Blaze.......i guess every1 does it.

1500 aint shit.
Thats slave labor

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

1500 aint shit.
Thats slave labor

yo philly- 1500 is a producer

[riecespieces]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

1500 aint shit.
Thats slave labor

Thats classic

[wubbzy]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

If your shit is REALLY hot,they just might go along with the program
NO ONE wants to blow a hit.
So many hip hoppers tend to under sell themselves to get in the door,but if you dont stand your ground,you wont get no respect.

Or, if you do try and stand your ground as a "nobody" they just might shut the door. As a newbie, you dont have the clout to call your own shots just yet.
I mean damn... look at how people in this forum treat newbies when they post a common question. When the newbie tries to stand his ground, that just opens up the door for more people to flame him. LOL I've yet to see a post in which someone says "hey newbie use the search function, but hey man I respect you for holding your ground and posting this over and over". Now, you let Bob Katz ask a common question and everyone would break their little fingers trying to type an answer. Not only would they answer, but they would address him as "Mr.Katz"... that is what you call respect (or is it a$$ kissing..? I dunno).

Seriously though, I'd rather give away a hit and have my name associated with the project than to demand money and risk getting no where. If I make a smash hit right now and it makes someone into a star, you mean to tell me I "wont get no respect" just because I gave it away? And honestly, I'd like to think that I can make more than one hit song. Therefore the first free hit was the sacrifice, hence my quote from the earlier post: "sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do, to get where you want to be".

First of, by me offering a hit song up for free sets me apart from the "nobody" producer that thinks he is the next best thing and demanding 50G up front for a mediocre track. Why? Because no one wants to spend money if they dont have to. I dont care how rich you are. Secondly, by producing that hit track, I guarantee other established artists are going to be knocking on your door for that piff. LOL Just ask Apex Productions (producer for "I Get Money"). This dude was just like you and I, posting on message boards (I met him on mvnation.com). Once that track blew up, so did his pager.. lol

So when they come to YOU, you can now charge that premium, because you now have the clout to back it up.
It's hard enough in this game just to get someone reputable to even spend the time listening to your tracks. I'd be extremely grateful if someone big in the game gave me the opportunity to be their 'whipping post'. I can play chump for a little while, as long as my name is in the credits. After all, you can't get an American Express card before starting out with a Macy's card. You have to build credit somewhere... But then again, I have some college friends that are swimming in debt because major credit card companies just threw $5000 credit cards at them, so maybe that analogy was bad.. lol.

But you're right... if the song is straight up fire, they just might shell out some cash to get it. But if making a pure fire hit song was that easy, we would all be rich by now. So what are the chances of that happening?

Sorry for my rant guys. I'm not saying everyone should adhere to my philosophy. But the poster did ask for opinions, so... for what it's worth.

Love, Wubbzy

[wubbzy]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

1500 aint shit.

LMAO.
1500 is a drummer most known for his work with Just Blaze. I'd say he IS the shit.

[riecespieces]

Seriously tho Bruh everyone has their own path, theres plenty of us with hot beats here and not all of us are working and Im sure theres even some of us here who've done Ghost Production work or been affiliated by or under some one and still havent gotten. If you feel like youve done all you can on your own then maybe you need to consider an offer to sign either way you need to have a concise plan for how you want to accomplish the eventual goal of having enuff of a buzz to be on your... Wonder replayed the sample interpolation for What You Know and when we all found out who he was its not like he blew up even after that....

[O'Ryan]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

yo philly- 1500 is a producer

Lmao......I got real good laugh outta that one i swear .

[T. Gundersen]

Originally Posted by wubbzy

Or, if you do try and stand your ground as a "nobody" they just might shut the door. As a newbie, you dont have the clout to call your own shots just yet.
I mean damn... look at how people in this forum treat newbies when they post a common question. When the newbie tries to stand his ground, that just opens up the door for more people to flame him. LOL I've yet to see a post in which someone says "hey newbie use the search function, but hey man I respect you for holding your ground and posting this over and over". Now, you let Bob Katz ask a common question and everyone would break their little fingers trying to type an answer. Not only would they answer, but they would address him as "Mr.Katz"... that is what you call respect (or is it a$$ kissing..? I dunno).

Seriously though, I'd rather give away a hit and have my name associated with the project than to demand money and risk getting no where. If I make a smash hit right now and it makes someone into a star, you mean to tell me I "wont get no respect" just because I gave it away? And honestly, I'd like to think that I can make more than one hit song. Therefore the first free hit was the sacrifice, hence my quote from the earlier post: "sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do, to get where you want to be".

First of, by me offering a hit song up for free sets me apart from the "nobody" producer that thinks he is the next best thing and demanding 50G up front for a mediocre track. Why? Because no one wants to spend money if they dont have to. I dont care how rich you are. Secondly, by producing that hit track, I guarantee other established artists are going to be knocking on your door for that piff. LOL Just ask Apex Productions (producer for "I Get Money"). This dude was just like you and I, posting on message boards (I met him on mvnation.com). Once that track blew up, so did his pager.. lol

Nice post.

[Killah_Trakz]

Originally Posted by wubbzy

O As a newbie, you dont have the clout to call your own shots just yet.
I mean damn... look at how people in this forum treat newbies when they post a common question. When the newbie tries to stand his ground, that just opens up the door for more people to flame him.

Alot of these grunts a need vacation or too step outside sometime. When I was 1st starting out, I did shit on my own and when I needed help it was their. Like people wanted to help you achieve and help you learn. Now-adays too many snot nose fake people who know too damn much who still roam these forums asking the same lame questions. Though with technology being affordable and with the advent of other things, the posts seem redundant and sometimes I think this place was cool without the rap n hiphop topic at times.

But too answer the OP, fam only you would know the best move and it may the one that jams you up but may also be the light you needed. You do also have a say so by putting clauses in the contracts. Believe me! Like my mans said, they wont turn down a hit!

Unless they replay your stuff.

[Puma]

Originally Posted by wubbzy

Or, if you do try and stand your ground as a "nobody" they just might shut the door. As a newbie, you dont have the clout to call your own shots just yet.
I mean damn... look at how people in this forum treat newbies when they post a common question. When the newbie tries to stand his ground, that just opens up the door for more people to flame him. LOL I've yet to see a post in which someone says "hey newbie use the search function, but hey man I respect you for holding your ground and posting this over and over". Now, you let Bob Katz ask a common question and everyone would break their little fingers trying to type an answer. Not only would they answer, but they would address him as "Mr.Katz"... that is what you call respect (or is it a$$ kissing..? I dunno).

Seriously though, I'd rather give away a hit and have my name associated with the project than to demand money and risk getting no where. If I make a smash hit right now and it makes someone into a star, you mean to tell me I "wont get no respect" just because I gave it away? And honestly, I'd like to think that I can make more than one hit song. Therefore the first free hit was the sacrifice, hence my quote from the earlier post: "sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do, to get where you want to be".

First of, by me offering a hit song up for free sets me apart from the "nobody" producer that thinks he is the next best thing and demanding 50G up front for a mediocre track. Why? Because no one wants to spend money if they dont have to. I dont care how rich you are. Secondly, by producing that hit track, I guarantee other established artists are going to be knocking on your door for that piff. LOL Just ask Apex Productions (producer for "I Get Money"). This dude was just like you and I, posting on message boards (I met him on mvnation.com). Once that track blew up, so did his pager.. lol

So when they come to YOU, you can now charge that premium, because you now have the clout to back it up.
It's hard enough in this game just to get someone reputable to even spend the time listening to your tracks. I'd be extremely grateful if someone big in the game gave me the opportunity to be their 'whipping post'. I can play chump for a little while, as long as my name is in the credits. After all, you can't get an American Express card before starting out with a Macy's card. You have to build credit somewhere... But then again, I have some college friends that are swimming in debt because major credit card companies just threw $5000 credit cards at them, so maybe that analogy was bad.. lol.

But you're right... if the song is straight up fire, they just might shell out some cash to get it. But if making a pure fire hit song was that easy, we would all be rich by now. So what are the chances of that happening?

Sorry for my rant guys. I'm not saying everyone should adhere to my philosophy. But the poster did ask for opinions, so... for what it's worth.

Love, Wubbzy

I really couldn't agree more with you on that one, Wubbzy! My exact philosophy. Good things will come eventually if you keep on keeping on - PLUS, if you can make 1 smash hit, then it's just a matter of time before you seal another one. Unless that first smash hit, have twisted your head and made you an a$$hole, of course

[Smitty Boy]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

1500 aint shit.
Thats slave labor

LMAO!!

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

1500 aint shit.
Thats slave labor

ROFL!

[DROPKICK]

I think signing under a producer is a good idea. Most of the big name guys today started under another producer. Its a way of paying dues and at the same time its an extremely valuable learning experience! If you dont sign under a producer find a way to be around the major label record making process!

[Methlab]

So many people undersell themselves in music (especially hip hop) that it can be ridiculous. I have a friend that is still broke after winning grammys because of such a contract. So you guys who say "just jump in and do it" have probably never been in the situation yet.

So many people just want to live in the moment that they never see the ramifications coming. If you are THAT GOOD you can do it on your terms and make a living and career.

OP, I would get an ent lawyer and do it right.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by riecespieces

Thats classic

What can I tell you.
Just goes to show you how much I DONT know.
BTW..thats a lousy name for a "producer"
And its still slave labor,yo!!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Methlab

So many people undersell themselves in music (especially hip hop) that it can be ridiculous. I have a friend that is still broke after winning grammys because of such a contract. So you guys who say "just jump in and do it" have probably never been in the situation yet.

So many people just want to live in the moment that they never see the ramifications coming. If you are THAT GOOD you can do it on your terms and make a living and career.

OP, I would get an ent lawyer and do it right.

Thank you Methlab..you know the deal!!

[jedilaw]

(JL stops chasing ambulance, catches breath)

Someone say lawyer?

I think you need to be really clear with these cats whether you are talking about giving up 50% of your production fee, 50% of the publishing rights, 50% of your songwriting credit/musician credit, et cetera. If they got 50% of the pub rights, and the song was a hit, they'd be making money off of you for practically forever.

It's not so much a question of will you get ****ed, but a question of "with whose dick" and "lube or no lube?"

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

1500 aint shit.
Thats slave labor

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
1500 or nothing those are session workers for just blaze, they also did work with teddy riley on snoop album

[In Search of]

Originally Posted by Synthy08

Brian all-day miller under Kanye, 1500 or nothing under Just Blaze.......i guess every1 does it.

i don't they work under just blaze but they have work with just blaze as session musicains

Originally Posted by MYAMS

yo philly- 1500 is a producer

naw they are production Group

[In Search of]

speakin of Apex Productions

what happen to the guy

i know he had

that song with swizz beat called where the cash at with the same i a hustler drums,it's like a lite jab at apex

put do had one smash and went a way

the song going"i get money" is going to make be but so much money
just because of the sample , if they let him get any pub at all

[Justice]

This is a really bad time to be a new producer. Take what ever deal gets you in the door, but make sure its not long term. anything over three years is crazy.

50% of a platinum single is a lot of money.

100% of nothing is nothing....

feel me.

Just spend your money on your craft and business, get a lawyer.

"Sunset claues" has hurt many careers.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
1500 or nothing those are session workers for just blaze, they also did work with teddy riley on snoop album

$hit,I aint heard of the mufukka!!
Awful handle,though.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Justice

This is a really bad time to be a new producer. Take what ever deal gets you in the door, but make sure its not long term. anything over three years is crazy.

50% of a platinum single is a lot of money.

100% of nothing is nothing....

feel me.

Just spend your money on your craft and business, get a lawyer.

"Sunset claues" has hurt many careers.

$hit..santa claus hurt mine@#$%^&*()_

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by jedilaw

(JL stops chasing ambulance, catches breath)

Someone say lawyer?

I think you need to be really clear with these cats whether you are talking about giving up 50% of your production fee, 50% of the publishing rights, 50% of your songwriting credit/musician credit, et cetera. If they got 50% of the pub rights, and the song was a hit, they'd be making money off of you for practically forever.

It's not so much a question of will you get ****ed, but a question of "with whose dick" and "lube or no lube?"

KY or Astro Glide??
Its a shame that most of these cats dont know shit about the biz.
So many mufukkas want to dive in head first without using their brain.
Dont sell yourselves short,fellas and dont take no shit from anyone.
Trust me.