A degree in Audio...now what?

[BrandRecordingCo]

Hey guys,

What are some options for someone who has just graduated with a bachelor in audio production? My ultimate goal is to own and operate my own personal studio...probably just on my own property and produce my music as well as local acts. I would also like to freelance out of other commercial studios and do live sound shows as well. So I have that all planned out for the future and will work hard to get there.

However, I am wanting to know what I can do in the meantime to pay my bills? I am currently doing an internship at a commercial studio that will end in about a month and a half...and have no idea what to do afterwards. I will always be able to do recordings and things...but I want an actual job that is reliable while I am building a client list and gathering the gear and facilities to be successful on my own.

I am only interested in getting your thoughts or suggestions on what to do for work that is audio related of any kind. I am not interested in hearing "you need to find a local engineer and slave for him for free and build a client list...or you need to be a janitor at a studio for minimum wage and hope that you get promoted..." I am already doing all of that right now. I am asking for suggestions on things like...

-working at a local radio station
-a local music store
-live sound venue
-etc.

Actual jobs with regular pay checks to keep me in the audio field while I work toward my ultimate goal of running a studio and freelancing. It is either that or get an office job to save money for a studio...that doesn't sound fun.

BTW...I live in St. Louis and do not wish to relocate

Thanks guys.

[Chris]

Get a real job and buy gear with what you make.

That's what I did.

[BrandRecordingCo]

Originally Posted by Chris

Get a real job and buy gear with what you make.

That's what I did.

This is what I have been planning to do, but was hoping to find a job doing something related to audio that I can bring home a decent pay check for every week. Sadly...I don't see that happening. I may have to settle with a regular 40/hr week job for awhile and slowly build a business...man that sounds boring...dfegad

[Chris]

Originally Posted by $uper$tar

This is what I have been planning to do, but was hoping to find a job doing something related to audio that I can bring home a decent pay check for every week. Sadly...I don't see that happening. I may have to settle with a regular 40/hr week job for awhile and slowly build a business...man that sounds boring...dfegad

Find a decent job and it's not as bad as you think. Gotta start somewhere.

[shaneoconnor]

go to the studio business forum and start posting there. im trying to get more action there about boot strapping in this industry.

getting a norm job is not the only option.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by $uper$tar

This is what I have been planning to do, but was hoping to find a job doing something related to audio that I can bring home a decent pay check for every week. Sadly...I don't see that happening. I may have to settle with a regular 40/hr week job for awhile and slowly build a business...man that sounds boring...dfegad

...and yet, that's the way it'll probably be for a while. You could always work for an AV integration company doing rental, design, sales, whatever. It's a pretty cool job, you're in the audio industry, it pays really well and you can do it anywhere you are.

Frank

[joelpatterson]

I know! Sweetwater!

[samwinston123]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I know! Sweetwater!

Or GC!

[Corran]

Frankly if Sweetwater was a little closer to where I am I would be interested in working there after college. I'm about to get a music education degree but I'm not sure if I want to teach anymore...

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by samwinston123

Or GC!

That's harsh, you guys!

Yeah, I know, the OP's situation is harsh too, but no need to rub it in.

[Jules]

I am moving this to the business forum as you may catch a lot of flack for it in one of the busier forums.

I think you might be frustrated there isn't an obvious route and others might get frustrated that you want some magic answer to an old, well known problem. How to start and run a studio.

There is no escaping it, saying that you dont want to continue down the intern path (and I mean intern - assistant engineer - engineer path) is going to toss you onto a shit list with some of the more traditional 'old school' people on the forum.

More and more, it looks with less job and training opportunities, the route to becoming an engineer or producer is - buy all the gear and you can call yourself one!

Old school people can rag on about how there is no other way to learn the craft, but have their heads buried in the sand about a total lack of job openings these days...

New school people can rage about how they aren't going to get no ones coffee, clean no ones toilet..

Its a waste of energy arguing these moot points IMHO

Do what you can, creep forward, take bold steps whenever possible, keep cool when no progress is possible, try not to slip backwards..

One drawback in you plan is the unwillingness to relocate as there surely will be more recording RELATED jobs in the big recording center cities. Rental co's for example - what a great place to work! You can in some cases, borrow stuff to use on your own recordings (with the boss' permission of course)

Anyhow - I wish you the best of luck,

[djwayne]

Diversify, do something totally unrelated to audio, but a well needed service, such as plumbing or electrician, or even carpentry....it's a different field all together, but will pay the bills, buy equipment, and it's great real life experience that won't hurt your audio career one bit.

You'll be surprised how many musicians you'll meet in the construction trades.

[Ben Brayer]

No real advice...

Just wanted to wish you good luck! I'm in the same position, although I don't really mind sweeping and cleaning toilets, etc.. Relocating is something that's going to have to wait a few years. There are some things around though, just need to get the job!

[Daniel Antix]

try a radio station... that's what i do. better money then you'd get in most recording studios... or other post production jobs in the tv/film industry.

[BrandRecordingCo]

Thank you all for the great advice. I would like to clarify that I am not saying I don't think I should clean toilets and things and work my way up...because I do not mind doing that. I am interning at a great commercial studio right now and I am doing a lot of cleaning/coffee making..etc. and I love it! I love being in the studio and just being surrounded by the gear and all the music making...its awesome.

However, I do also need a job and was just looking for some suggestions for other options out there WHILE I work my way up. I am not wanting to skip steps and jump right into owning a studio..that is ridiculous...I just want to make a living while I am working my way up and hoped it could be audio related since I spent all this money earning an audio degree. I have been into recording and mixing bands for close to 5 years now, and hope to start upgrading my studio more and more and need a cool job to help me do that. All the while, I will still continue interning and learning...that is something that should not be skipped or overlooked.

Thanks again for the advice and keep it coming!

[Corran]

Just as an aside, I think it's ridiculous that most studio "internships" are nothing more than glorified "gophers" and are usually unpaid. I inquired about an internship at a local studio and turned down a year-long unpaid internship. Now mostly this was because I am still in school and was looking at just helping out or doing something audio-related, but not to get kicked around for a year! Not to mention I know my stuff and actually have recorded dozens and dozens of things with a certifiable record. Anyway! I just find it silly. If a studio owner can find someone competent, reliable, and knowledable, said person should be able to make them money, and therefore they should pay them!

Sorry, /rant

[3rd&4thT]

Take a crash course in basic accounting at some adult education center. You'll never regret it.

It occurs to me - everyone's always complaining that they can't find qualified guys to maintain their stuff. I don't really know, but if it's true, learn that and write your own ticket. After that, you can fix your own stuff.

3rd&4thT

[te-problematique]

ask god for the last few years of your life back, and go study accounting or law....

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

It occurs to me - everyone's always complaining that they can't find qualified guys to maintain their stuff.

3rd&4thT

I think it's the best way to have a job in the music industry.

[OldTimey]

Originally Posted by Corran

If a studio owner can find someone competent, reliable, and knowledable, said person should be able to make them money, and therefore they should pay them!

Sorry, /rant

I imagine that if this intern started making real money for the studio right away (ie bringing in bands, having those bands demand that this intern produce/engineer their record), most studio owners would realize pretty quickly that it's in his/her best interests to end the internship and start paying the intern pretty quick...! So that's how you do it!

[AC Long]

My advice would be to relocate to where the action is. Get involved in the live scene and meet all the bands. Record their demos for them for free to get experience. Network. Get whatever job you can to pay the bills in the meantime. Keep a positive attitude and believe in yourself. Make it happen!thumbsup

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by $uper$tar

I am only interested in getting your thoughts or suggestions on what to do for work that is audio related of any kind. I am not interested in hearing "you need to find a local engineer and slave for him for free and build a client list...or you need to be a janitor at a studio for minimum wage and hope that you get promoted..." I am already doing all of that right now. I am asking for suggestions on things like...

What's stopping you from going out there and getting paid to make records right now?


Here's some probably worthless advice/observations:

1.) If you take a day job to support yourself it will eventually become your ONLY job. If you want to work in this field you gotta commit to it 100% mind/body/soul. Day jobs are for hobbyists.

2.) Degrees mean nothing in this field. Discography means everything. Who you've recorded and what it sounds like determines your immediate and possibly entire future. You are what your work is. Period. End story.

3.) The more you do the more you get to do. What have you done today that ensures you will engineer tomorrow or next week?

4.) Some people were born to fetch coffee, some people were born to make records. Which one do you want to be? What are you going to do about it?

5.) Honesty, humility, patience and drive will get you further than technical know-how in this field.... although you better know how to make it sound like a record because isn't that the point?

6.) Why aren't you asking the people at the studio you're at these questions? Trust me, most of them have been where you are.

7.) Owning your own studio is a huge financial liability and a pipe dream for most. Forget that nonsense. Does an airline pilot own their own jet? No? Well, why should engineers own studios? Would you rather own the plane or FLY the plane? Instead of worrying about having your own place, worry about making records at the place you're at now.

8.) The people that become engineers are the ones able to get the business. Yep, you're a salesman now--like it or not. The better you are at selling your audio services, the sooner you're going to be in the control room having someone else fetch YOUR coffee. Those that sell get to make records.

That's all the worthless advice I have for today. And remember, we are always our own worst enemies. Nobody is going to hand it to you. If you want it take it.

[James Meeker]

Wow, I'm a total thread killer!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Wow, I'm a total thread killer!

viscious b'stard!

[djwayne]

Excuse me for being a lowly hobbiest, but I wanted to be able to buy gear and pay my bills. Pretending to be a full time AE without a full time paying job, is baloney. Nothing wrong with a good honest job. Ya gotta pay the bills.

[TREMORS]

Originally Posted by Jules

I am moving this to the business forum as you may catch a lot of flack for it in one of the busier forums.

I think you might be frustrated there isn't an obvious route and others might get frustrated that you want some magic answer to an old, well known problem. How to start and run a studio.

There is no escaping it, saying that you dont want to continue down the intern path (and I mean intern - assistant engineer - engineer path) is going to toss you onto a shit list with some of the more traditional 'old school' people on the forum.

More and more, it looks with less job and training opportunities, the route to becoming an engineer or producer is - buy all the gear and you can call yourself one!

Old school people can rag on about how there is no other way to learn the craft, but have their heads buried in the sand about a total lack of job openings these days...

New school people can rage about how they aren't going to get no ones coffee, clean no ones toilet..

Its a waste of energy arguing these moot points IMHO

Do what you can, creep forward, take bold steps whenever possible, keep cool when no progress is possible, try not to slip backwards..

One drawback in you plan is the unwillingness to relocate as there surely will be more recording RELATED jobs in the big recording center cities. Rental co's for example - what a great place to work! You can in some cases, borrow stuff to use on your own recordings (with the boss' permission of course)

Anyhow - I wish you the best of luck,

Thanks for the encouragement for the original poster and guys like me, Jules.
There really is a dearth of openings for a beginner with the industry situation as it is.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by djwayne

Excuse me for being a lowly hobbiest, but I wanted to be able to buy gear and pay my bills. Pretending to be a full time AE without a full time paying job, is baloney. Nothing wrong with a good honest job. Ya gotta pay the bills.

There is nothing wrong with that.

But in my experience as soon as a struggling AE gets a day job it becomes their only job, and engineering is back to being a hobby. If you want to get somewhere you have to make sacrifices. For some people the price is too high. I can relate, I started out as a hobbyist for years and year--it wasn't until I quit my day job that I started to make headway.

[djwayne]

Well before you advise anybody to quit their day job, I would suggest they have another source of income, or financial backing, cause they are going to need it. Throwing all caution to the wind and just diving in, could be a recipe for disaster, especially in today's economy.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by djwayne

Throwing all caution to the wind and just diving in, could be a recipe for disaster, especially in today's economy.

Or it could be a recipe for success. Without risk there is no reward.

Also, by FORCING yourself to earn a living in AE you work harder because there is no other option.

[TREMORS]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Or it could be a recipe for success. Without risk there is no reward.

Also, by FORCING yourself to earn a living in AE you work harder because there is no other option.

Well, while you can FORCE yourself to be that driven...

You cant force anyone to hire you, can you?
You cant force people to let you record them, can you?
You cant force a studio owner to let you use the room?

While I understand what you are trying to say, some of us are doing that, and still arent getting anywhere, because the market the way it is, it's hard for any owner to take a chance on anyone.

Or, as a freelancer, do you rent the room yourself and the band pays you back plus your charge above that?