Square room acoustic treatement
Johnnnnnnnnnny
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#1
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #1
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Thread Starter
Square room acoustic treatement

Hi guys,
I´am building a small studio and now I´m in the stage when isolation is OK but acoustic in the room is not.
Dimensions: 12*12*7.5 feet (3,7*3,7*2,3m)

In this moment there is a carpet on the floor, and soft foam combined with paper egg trays which covers like 70% of walls and 60% of ceiling (only paper egg trays there).
There is just soft foam in the corners.

- I know I can´t expect profi acoustic but maybe I could cure some problems.

- I will mainly record acoustic drums, guitars and vocals.

I found that close to ceiling all the high frequencies disappears. That would be the first problem I dont´t know how to solve. It makes a big problem when I place OH´s - i like to put them high above the kit but than they lack HF.
Is there any way to treat this?
To much stuff on the walls?
Or are paper egg trays that bad?

Thank you for any response.
#2
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #2
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 

#3
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #3
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jhbrandt's Avatar
 

+1

You should probably try to find some fiberglass or at the very least acoustic foam to place over the kit. This will help reduce the comb-filtering in the overhead mics.

You're gonna need some serious trapping in the form of deep corner traps to help reduce the coincident waves. This is due to the same dimensions in length and width. - It's very easy to cut the highs in a room, but LF trapping will be what you need and small drum rooms usually end up best 'dead' sounding. You can always add some ambiance in the mix.

Cheers,
John
#4
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #4
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

The egg trays can have a huge benefit in a room (if you happen to have a whole bunch of eggs lying around loose on the floor - which could get real messy) - but an improvement in your room's acoustics would not be one of those benefits.....

Rod
Quote
3
#5
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnnnnnnnnny View Post

- I know I can´t expect profi acoustic but maybe I could cure some problems.
Actually, if u do some basic research and have a modest budget, u can get quite satisfactory results, it seems.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnnnnnnnnny View Post

I found that close to ceiling all the high frequencies disappears.
Maybe its your egg cartons...
i would actually take em all off and if its still not to ur liking, possibly place some reflective materials on the ceiling.. especially if u have a set spot where u always place the drums, then maybe just a panel where the ovh's and the mics would go rather than all over the ceiling... something maybe like plywood panels or something similar that would absorb the low mids and not so much the highs... or something like that...
im just a noob with this still, and can only give ideas from what i have read over actual practical experience, which i hope to get soon..


anyways, good luck.
peace!
#6
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #6
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AndreBenoit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
The egg trays can have a huge benefit in a room (if you happen to have a whole bunch of eggs lying around loose on the floor - which could get real messy) - but an improvement in your room's acoustics would not be one of those benefits.....

Rod
If you glue them in opposing patterns around the door they ward off vampires

Andre
Quote
1
#7
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #7
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreBenoit View Post
If you glue them in opposing patterns around the door they ward off vampires

Andre

I heard that really works - but only if you then douse them with garlic juice.....

Rod
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1
#8
23rd June 2013
Old 23rd June 2013
  #8
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Birdland101's Avatar
My old man did that exact thing as you in a similar room..the room was a muddy blurring mess... I'm no guru.. But if I were u I would get some DIY bass traps and do every corner in the room, maybe lose the carpet.. and get the ceiling sorted as the guys above have mentioned..
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#9
24th June 2013
Old 24th June 2013
  #9
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Thread Starter
My drums are at a corner and walls and ceiling are made of drywall.
So I will try your recommendations - make bass traps from fiberglass in the corners - that is consensus.
- Than take of the egg trays
And what should I put there instead?
Should I leave ceiling above the drums clear - just drywall?

About the egg trays - It´s not true that they do nothing - when I build the room I clapped during the process and when 50% was covered I could still hear some ugly echo in the room. But when I added more trays it stopped. So it definitely does something but it rather takes out high mids and highs than anything else.
#10
24th June 2013
Old 24th June 2013
  #10
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Birdland101's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnnnnnnnnny View Post
About the egg trays - It´s not true that they do nothing - when I build the room I clapped during the process and when 50% was covered I could still hear some ugly echo in the room. But when I added more trays it stopped. So it definitely does something but it rather takes out high mids and highs than anything else.
Takes out highs and reverb so you left with a boom box.

You should try keep the floor wood and the roof absorbtion, the human ear is used to floor reflections apparently its more normal, the guys earlier mentioned remedies for the roof I think.
#11
24th June 2013
Old 24th June 2013
  #11
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnnnnnnnnny View Post
About the egg trays - It´s not true that they do nothing
It's true that they do nothing of value - anything you put in a room will do something - the only question (here at least) is whether that "something" is meaningful or not...........

Rod
#12
24th June 2013
Old 24th June 2013
  #12
SO many egg cartons...

Ditch the egg cartons.
Be a bit methodological in your approach.

A sketch out where everything is.
Where your speakers sit, where your listening position is and any major reflective points in the room.

Next.
Assess Is this the ideal listening position for everything?
-Speaker placement is a big part in the sound.

Where are you first reflection points?
Then bass trap your corners

This is the bread and butter.
I'm only very new to the concept of acoustic treatment methods, so if i'm wrong anyone feel free to shoot me down.
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#13
24th June 2013
Old 24th June 2013
  #13
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Thread Starter
Whow
Thanks for all the advice.

This is how the room looks now
Attached Thumbnails
Square room acoustic treatement-1.jpg  
#14
25th June 2013
Old 25th June 2013
  #14
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DanDan's Avatar
DOH

Johnny, most if not all of the advice above was given assuming you were talking about a Control or Listening room. Recording rooms are very different, and egg boxes do control flutter echo as you have found. Try your overheads taped flat to the wall behind the drums pointing down. This will create downward cardioid PZM's. PZM's do not suffer any destructive reflections.

DD
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1
Johnnnnnnnnnny
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#15
25th June 2013
Old 25th June 2013
  #15
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Thread Starter
Oh My english realy isn´t good

you mean to put them in 90´ degree from the ceiling closer to the wall than cymbals?
#16
25th June 2013
Old 25th June 2013
  #16
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DanDan's Avatar
PZM

Presuming your drums are in the corner facing towards the room, I would try the mics taped to the walls to the L and R of the player.

A PZM can be any microphone mounted at a boundary. Literally taped to the wall, ceiling, floor. Maybe a piece of foam to isolate the mic body from structure borne vibrations.
Boundary microphone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
DD
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#17
25th June 2013
Old 25th June 2013
  #17
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Thread Starter
your assumption is correct.
But I have just 2 pen microphones or 2 large diaphragm ones for OHs and theese are hard to mount this close to the wall
#18
25th June 2013
Old 25th June 2013
  #18
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DanDan's Avatar
Hard

Typical 'Pen' microphones can be used on stands as normal. Just position them almost touching the wall, maybe with a piece of foam between.
With even large mics I reckon it is usually possible to get the capsule close to the wall.
DD
Johnnnnnnnnnny
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#19
26th June 2013
Old 26th June 2013
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Typical 'Pen' microphones can be used on stands as normal. Just position them almost touching the wall, maybe with a piece of foam between.
With even large mics I reckon it is usually possible to get the capsule close to the wall.
DD
OK
I will definitely try this position in next recording.
Should they aim to the ground parallel with the wall? That sounds a little bit strange if they do not aim to the drums
#20
26th June 2013
Old 26th June 2013
  #20
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DanDan's Avatar
PZM

You will create a hemispherical PZM. The side being blocked should remove most of the directionality in the active hemi. Try it, you may really like the very open sound of PZM.

DD
Johnnnnnnnnnny
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#21
27th June 2013
Old 27th June 2013
  #21
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Thread Starter
Thank you for advice!
Should there be something on that wall or is it the best to keep this wall clean (drywall) and put some acoustic features somewhere else?
#22
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #22
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DanDan's Avatar
Free Lunch

PZM microphones do not receive destructive reflections because they are on the boundary. So for the sake of the Overheads there is absolutely no need to treat the wall they are on. You may treat it for other reasons, e.g. flutter echo, but that will make no difference to the PZM' s. They are as blind to the treatment as they are to reflections.

DD
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#23
1st July 2013
Old 1st July 2013
  #23
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Thread Starter
Now I have moved all the gear out of the room and painted the walls.
My next problem is the floor. So far I had a carpet all over the room but now I can´t decide what is the best solution for acoustic in this room.

Options
1) flagging
2) carpet
3) floating floor

Wooden floor is unfortunately out of my budget.
I have read that carpet is not good for the acoustic so now i think the floating floor is the way to go.
#24
2nd July 2013
Old 2nd July 2013
  #24
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By 'floating floor' I assume that you mean a laminate 'snap-in' flooring system.

What is the floor now?

Cheers,
John
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#25
2nd July 2013
Old 2nd July 2013
  #25
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Thread Starter
Now it´s tile floor (little stone squares)
And yeah. I meant laminate "fake wood" looking like floor

These terms are pretty difficult to find in dictionary.
#26
2nd July 2013
Old 2nd July 2013
  #26
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Johnnny,

No problem!

Do you LIKE the tile?? If you like how the tile looks and feels, it will not adversely affect the acoustics. Tile will have a slightly better high frequency reflection compared to wood or laminate on tile or cement.

It's really 'pick ur poison'.. any / all of that should work fine.
BUT, if you LIKE your current floor, don't change it. - You know, "If it's not Baroque, Don't fix it!"

Cheers,
John
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#27
2nd July 2013
Old 2nd July 2013
  #27
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
Johnnny,

No problem!

Do you LIKE the tile?? If you like how the tile looks and feels, it will not adversely affect the acoustics. Tile will have a slightly better high frequency reflection compared to wood or laminate on tile or cement.

It's really 'pick ur poison'.. any / all of that should work fine.
BUT, if you LIKE your current floor, don't change it. - You know, "If it's not Baroque, Don't fix it!"

Cheers,
John
I had a carpet there till now when i painted the walls. I think i like the tile better than the carpet before but it looks terrible because it is very old
#28
2nd July 2013
Old 2nd July 2013
  #28
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DanDan's Avatar
Tiles

Johnny, have you every heard drums in a room with a tiled floor?
Even as it is, I suspect it is way too live and boomy.
You will need a decent amount of treatment to get this to a reasonable level.

DD
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#29
3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
  #29
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Thread Starter
With a carpet it is also way too boomy if the walls are clean :-D.
OK laminate it is
Johnnnnnnnnnny
Thread Starter
#30
6th July 2013
Old 6th July 2013
  #30
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Thread Starter
This is how I proceed

I have done and have bought some acoustic stuff and made the floor.
Going to make some bass traps soon. The room is much more live than before but it is too much now.
I don´t want the room to be completely dead.

Where is the best to place the acoustic panels with respect to drums?

EDIT:
The black panels are filled with fiberglass (5cm thick)
Attached Thumbnails
Square room acoustic treatement-outside.jpg   Square room acoustic treatement-intside.jpg  
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