Login / Register
 
Need help with Control Room Dimensions
New Reply
Subscribe
wordmanjay
Thread Starter
#1
26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Home of the Polka Hall of Fame!
Posts: 37

Thread Starter
wordmanjay is offline
Need help with Control Room Dimensions

Building a control room for mixing.
I have 10'9" ceilings.
I have approximately 17' in depth-
I have over 21' of width-
What width and depth should I make my room?
Should I put the two side walls at angles? I have that option.....

I know about treating it.
Just wondering if I have to spend more reading/math time to determine these measurements.....or can somebody just give me some damn dimensions and I'll go ahead and build it? :o)

Thanks in advance.
Jay
#2
26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,365

Syncamorea is offline
10.75 : 17 : 21 = 1 : 1.58 : 1.95

Those may not meet common definitions for ideal but they are decent. The worst aspect is that you are near to a multiple of 2 on length to height. Personally, if you don't need to improve the isolation, I'd build in it as is and splay the side walls of the interior build. If you want to improve isolation, then possibly aim for something in the 1 : 1.3 : 1.7 range.
#3
26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
  #3
Gear interested
 
MediaRooms's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Outer L.A. area
Posts: 20

Send a message via Yahoo to MediaRooms
MediaRooms is offline
I've had the best luck calculating the room resonances for each dimension up to ~300 Hz., then tabulating them all together to see how evenly they are distributed. Ratios are a good place to start, but I've found even with "ideal" ratios I can get isolated resonances and/or resonances piling up around a frequency. Both create room colorations.

This can be a labor intensive exercise, but it's well worth the effort. Room dimensions are the biggest determining factor in getting a neutral sound in a room, so once the room is built, you're stuck with the dimensions you chose.

I go into more detail of the whys and hows in articles at manofacoustics | Making rooms sound good..

Last edited by MediaRooms; 26th March 2013 at 06:10 PM.. Reason: Grammar correction
#4
26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,365

Syncamorea is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRooms View Post
Room dimensions are the biggest determining factor in getting a neutral sound in a room, so once the room is built, you're stuck with the dimensions you chose.
If you are not going to treat the room, perhaps. I see it as a starting point but for a CR, I'd expect extensive treatment where the end product is very different than the bare room.
#5
26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Hamilton, On Canada
Posts: 4,835

avare is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea View Post
10.75 : 17 : 21 = 1 : 1.58 : 1.95

Those may not meet common definitions for ideal but they are decent. The worst aspect is that you are near to a multiple of 2 on length to height. Personally, if you don't need to improve the isolation, I'd build in it as is and splay the side walls of the interior build. If you want to improve isolation, then possibly aim for something in the 1 : 1.3 : 1.7 range.
? It meets the Walker/EBU criteria which is the most modern criteria.

Andre
#6
26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,365

Syncamorea is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
? It meets the Walker/EBU criteria which is the most modern criteria.
Note the "decent" vs. "ideal" perspective.

And also note I did say: "if you don't need to improve the isolation, I'd build in it as is".

So it's not like I'm being harsh on those proportions...

Starting from ground zero, I'd not choose a length to height ratio so close to 2. If I couldn't be in the 1.6 to 1.7 range, I'd want to jump up to 2.4 to 2.7, but that's my priorities for "ideal".
#7
27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,324

OpusOfTrolls is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea View Post
Starting from ground zero, I'd not choose a length to height ratio so close to 2. If I couldn't be in the 1.6 to 1.7 range, I'd want to jump up to 2.4 to 2.7, but that's my priorities for "ideal".
It really depends on source/listener positioning. But it's safe to say that with the proper amount of bass trapping, the dimensions matter less for frequency response.
#8
27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,324

OpusOfTrolls is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordmanjay View Post
Building a control room for mixing.
I have 10'9" ceilings.
I have approximately 17' in depth-
I have over 21' of width-
What width and depth should I make my room?
Should I put the two side walls at angles? I have that option.....
The room is wider than it is deep? What is the maximum dimension for width?
wordmanjay
Thread Starter
#9
27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
  #9
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Home of the Polka Hall of Fame!
Posts: 37

Thread Starter
wordmanjay is offline
Thanks for all the responses.
My width and depth are not set. I want to leave the ceiling as is.
Width- I have approximately 22' max.
Depth (Length)- I have 17' max.

I mean width as in the side walls.
I mean depth (length) as in front glass to back wall.

I can make it whatever depth and width I want. The only "size" goal in mind is a CR for mixing with room for 4-5 listeners if desired. I think with the space I have to work with this won't be a problem. I plan on treating the room extensively as needed.

Isolation is not a critical factor, although the CR will have it's own walls and raised/isolated floor to aid in isolation.

If I splay the walls, I assume I don't want the front wall to be too short. The front glass has a width of 6'.
What kind of angle should I use to splay the walls?
I will say that because of the space I'm utilizing, it would be easier NOT to splay the walls- I'm into easier if it's not critical. More insight on this, please.

Please respond with more suggestions on dimensions- even if it calculates out to be a smaller room.

Thanks in advance.
Jay
#10
27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,324

OpusOfTrolls is offline
What kind of monitors are you planning on using, flush mounted or freestanding?
wordmanjay
Thread Starter
#11
28th March 2013
Old 28th March 2013
  #11
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Home of the Polka Hall of Fame!
Posts: 37

Thread Starter
wordmanjay is offline
I'd love to eventually have both flush mounted and free standing monitors :o)
But initially, I'll have free-standing monitors.
Audio X
#12
28th March 2013
Old 28th March 2013
  #12
Audio X
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordmanjay View Post
Width- I have approximately 22' max.
Depth (Length)- I have 17' max.

I mean width as in the side walls.
I mean depth (length) as in front glass to back wall.
I would consider the 22' wall as the length and the 17' as the front and back walls, if that is possible to fire your speakers the long way.

Since they are floor standing speakers, I'd assume you're setting them up as mid fields? what model are they? The other question is, are you going to hire a designer/acoustician and contractor or DIY?
#13
28th March 2013
Old 28th March 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,324

OpusOfTrolls is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordmanjay View Post
I'd love to eventually have both flush mounted and free standing monitors :o)
But initially, I'll have free-standing monitors.
The difference is night and day really. Either you tailor the room for the mounted monitors, or fine tune the placement of the freestandings, with some awareness of the room to begin with. I would recommend flush mounts, but I couldn't tell you which ones to use, and it matters.

How about a layout of the room as it is? Tell us what the walls are made from, how thick they are, the locations of windows and doors, vents, with dimensions.
#14
28th March 2013
Old 28th March 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,324

OpusOfTrolls is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X View Post
I would consider the 22' wall as the length and the 17' as the front and back walls, if that is possible to fire your speakers the long way.

Since they are floor standing speakers, I'd assume you're setting them up as mid fields? what model are they? The other question is, are you going to hire a designer/acoustician and contractor or DIY?
Yes I think this will be better also, but we still don't know how the room is layed out.
wordmanjay
Thread Starter
#15
29th March 2013
Old 29th March 2013
  #15
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Home of the Polka Hall of Fame!
Posts: 37

Thread Starter
wordmanjay is offline
Because of the lay-out of the CR in regards to the live room, the 17' max will be the length- the direction the speakers are firing.
If I should make the width 14', then that's what I'll do. 17' X 22' is just the space I'm working with- I don't have to use that much width.

I have inexpensive near fields right now.
I'll be getting a pair of Genelec 1030's in the near future.

I will be having a professional come in to evaluate and recommend treatment.

So what width do you recommend with a 17' depth?
#16
29th March 2013
Old 29th March 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,365

Syncamorea is offline
10.75 : 14 : 17 = 1 : 1.3 : 1.6

Some builders consider those to be very good ratios.

10.75 x 14 x 17 = 2560 cubic feet. That's above 1500 which some consider a minimum.

If you must face the 22' wall and were to choose to make a room wider than long, just realize that your sweet spot will be smaller than if you set up on the short wall.

Since you are bringing in a pro, obviously he/she will have a recommendation about how to best use the space. Similarly, on splaying, there are differences of opinion and there exist examples of how to work within each approach. If a pro is going to make treatment decisions, I'd want him to make as many decisions as possible in order to capitalize on his expertise.

And finally, one can orient the mix position 90 degrees to the window if needed.
#17
29th March 2013
Old 29th March 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,324

OpusOfTrolls is offline
I wouldn't recommend shrinking the room so much. Unless you have a need for the isolated spaces it would make, or to make the room symmetrical. I would like to offer you some advice but I would like to see a layout first.
wordmanjay
Thread Starter
#18
30th March 2013
Old 30th March 2013
  #18
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Home of the Polka Hall of Fame!
Posts: 37

Thread Starter
wordmanjay is offline
I'll only be bringing in the pro when it's time to treat.

This thread has been really helpful.

Right now, I'm finishing my live room walls around my CR. There will be an empty space where I'll build the CR several months from now- that's why I'm just kinda stuck on the dimensions for now.

I'm a little betwixed- I really wanted my CR to be as much of the 17' X 22' as possible. Now I'm thinking- if I do that I should turn the listening position- making the view window to the side, not right in front of the desk. That would put quite an adjustment on the way I've envisioned it.

If I stick with the idea of the window being in front of the desk, than I'm thinking the best idea is to bring the side walls in to the 14' mark. That would make it a bit smaller than envisioned, but would certainly work. (as a note- yes, any space I don't use just becomes more live/isolation room area)

Any more thoughts are helpful- thanks again.

One more thing- If I do make my side walls 14', how much "sound challenging issues" will I run into if the back 4'-5' feet of one or both of the sidewalls is 18'? Meaning- the CR would be shaped kinda like a T- with the top of the T being the back wall. (hope that explanation helps) I'm thinking of an entry door.

Thanks for helping.
#19
30th March 2013
Old 30th March 2013
  #19
Gear maniac
 
adrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: sweden
Posts: 166

adrumdrum is offline
I would recomend to hire an acoustician from the beginning because everything installed so that doors, windows (including size), ventilation, etc. are placed according to how the acoustics of the room is designed. Perhaps there is a more optimal size for the room for the acoustic model that the acoustician designing the room with.
Quote
1
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
lukejs / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
5
soundbarnfool / Mastering forum
17
AlexLakis / So much gear, so little time!
8
Black Bottle / High end
19
Brad McGowan / So much gear, so little time!
11

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.