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Metal studs vs wood for acoustic cloud
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ronydarippa
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#1
25th March 2013
Old 25th March 2013
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Metal studs vs wood for acoustic cloud

im planning on building a cloud with built in lights.

is it a bad idea to use metal studs instead of wood for acoustic cloud frame?

will the metal resonate or ring with loud spl?

any suggestions would be great.
#2
25th March 2013
Old 25th March 2013
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Wood will resonate, as will metal. My personal preference for treatments is wood but if metal resonance is a big issue, it can be damped.
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25th March 2013
Old 25th March 2013
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i figured metal studs would be lighter and therefore easier to hang, but im not trying to compromise the sound in the room. so i guess il will go with wood.

thanks for your advice.
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25th March 2013
Old 25th March 2013
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Aluminium studs may be used, but they are too expensive compared to studs built from fir (a common construction wood used in my country).
Wooden studs may resonate, but this resonances are much more damped compared to metal studs, if we look at common construction woods using today for roof building, for example...

Metal construction elements used for plasterboard building technique, is always a chance for single and easily audible resonance, if you don't solve this eariler....
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--"We can never see past the choices we don't understand." (Oracle, The Matrix Reloaded)

Better control room needs:
-a much smaller desk
-speaker stands
-best possible position for loudspeakers and yourself
-a broader and thicker cloud
-a broader and thicker wall panels
-more super chunks in all corners
-a binary diffuser slats over proposed treatment
-to not expect "sensational" response
-good luck!
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25th March 2013
Old 25th March 2013
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The species of wood, size, and construction methods used all affect the weight of the end result.

For example, southern yellow pine will weigh more than fir or western cedar. 3/4 stock will weigh more than 5/8. The problem with thinner material is you have to be more careful with joining edges and bracing.
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25th March 2013
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i just had a lots of 2x4s from construction and was gona use them for the frame. but now that i think about it, its gona be wayyyyy to heavy. so i might just go with the cedar. i will post some pictures as soon as done.

thanks for your help.
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25th March 2013
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One approach that helps to keep the weight down (and ringing out of the picture) is to make an outside frame of wood (for finish purposes) - and construct an inner frame with the standard ceiling grid used for suspended ceilings - then make "ceiling tiles" out of wrapped treatments.

I have used this successfully in the past of a few projects to keep costs down.

Rod
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25th March 2013
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rod thanks for the advice. but i think im gona go with a simple wood frame. cedar wood seems pretty light.

i attached a quick rendering of my plan.

thanks
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Metal studs vs wood for acoustic cloud-cloud.jpg  
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25th March 2013
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Up to you, but a angle corner reinforcement of 1/4 ply or luan attached to the backside of the frame will help resist racking when you put it up on the ceiling. Same idea used in theater flats. http://www.ia470.com/primer/images/flat.png

One advantage of ceiling grid is it gives the insulation a lip to rest against. Otherwise, got to think of a way to hold it in place.
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25th March 2013
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corner reinforcement is not a bad idea. but what exactly to you mean by "racking "?
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25th March 2013
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Suppose you build your frame on the floor and all the corners are perfect 90 degree angles. Unless you have some way of lifting all corners at the same time without twisting any of them out of position, the tendency is for the entire frame to move out of position so the corners are no longer 90 degrees.
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#12
25th March 2013
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Wow I never thought about that!! thanks!
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26th March 2013
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you can cut holes (or larger) cutouts in the wood to bring down the weight if needed. Keep in mind though that this adds to the complexity and workload exponentially (the act of cutting or drilling + the added surface needing to be covered with fabric).
If you install your cloud directly to the joists, it can take quite a bit of weight. I successfully hung mine just with drywall anchors and it has a wood frame (4'x4') so i don't see a weight issue if anchored from the joists. Just grab a stud-finder and mark your ceiling studs.
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26th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
you can cut holes (or larger) cutouts in the wood to bring down the weight if needed. Keep in mind though that this adds to the complexity and workload exponentially (the act of cutting or drilling + the added surface needing to be covered with fabric).
If you install your cloud directly to the joists, it can take quite a bit of weight. I successfully hung mine just with drywall anchors and it has a wood frame (4'x4') so i don't see a weight issue if anchored from the joists. Just grab a stud-finder and mark your ceiling studs.

+1
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26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
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This metal frame system is cheaper than the proper wood needed for the frame. At least here in Finland. It is also very lightweight and super easy to install by just one guy. It is used here in most places where acoustic cloud/ceiling is needed and never heard one to resonate.

I had one in my previous place, but for current room i wanted wooden one for style reasons and oh boy how much work there was with it! Building it and painting it took time and it took three guys to install as it was so heavy. And it was three times smaller than the previous one :D

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26th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
Up to you, but a angle corner reinforcement of 1/4 ply or luan attached to the backside of the frame will help resist racking when you put it up on the ceiling. Same idea used in theater flats. http://www.ia470.com/primer/images/flat.png

One advantage of ceiling grid is it gives the insulation a lip to rest against. Otherwise, got to think of a way to hold it in place.
These types of reinforcement are also know in some circles as "gussets".
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#17
27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
It is used here in most places where acoustic cloud/ceiling is needed and never heard one to resonate.
For sure metal is damped by absorption if coupled properly. It's interesting to hit this kind of structure with a big transient. I built a confinement shield for a metal shear that had a 40' blade to cut 1" thick lead sheets. When a 40' wide slab of 1" lead slammed down onto the receiver, the I-beams of the shop resonated in a big way. Big. I-beams.

But that was a fairly intense transient.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
you can cut holes (or larger) cutouts in the wood to bring down the weight if needed. Keep in mind though that this adds to the complexity and workload exponentially (the act of cutting or drilling + the added surface needing to be covered with fabric).
.
To carry these thoughts a bit further, my experience with cutting holes in standard lumber was that the holes made the traps more vulnerable to splitting along the grain of the wood if the trap gets dropped by accident. (It happened to me).

The workload for cutting the holes was exponentially greater than building the frames.

If I were going to lighten a cloud by cutting holes, I would use plywood for the frame instead of dimension lumber because plywood would be much more resistant to splitting because of the cross glued sections of wood in plywood.
ronydarippa
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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thank you all very much. i will be posing pictures real soon.
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