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Need help to tune my control room. (First Measures Included)
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Alejandro Varela
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#151
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Hallo...
In your measurement in "A Foor Corner to D Ceiling Corner", did you have the mic inside the wardrobe at tri-corner or outside in front of the door?? Because in this measurement you have flatter freq response and less resonances, which puzzeled me.

In "B Foor Corner to C Ceiling Corner" you have a resonance at 46Hz.

Just want to know how you have the mic positioned, the mic schould be pointed in the tri-corner around 10-15cm.
Yes it was measured inside wardrobe and mic was at 10 cm
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
Yes it was measured inside wardrobe and mic was at 10 cm


ahaahahaaaa
Thanks for the clarification, I find this very interesting.

Did you have all the doors of the wardrobe open or closed when you measured? If not...Is it possible to redo the measurements in that tri-corner with all the doors fully open and one with the doors closed.

The speaker in A corner on floor!! Off course.

I suspect that the wardrobe is working like a big Helmholtz resonator in that D corner. This has to be verified when measurements have been done in that tri-corner.

Last edited by Mctwins; 27th December 2012 at 11:02 AM.. Reason: spelling
Alejandro Varela
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Thanks for the clarification, I find this very interesting.

Did you have all the doors of the wardrobe open or closed when you measured? If not...Is it possible to redo the measurements in that tri-corner with all the doors fully open and one with the doors closed.

The speaker in A corner on floor!! Off course.

I suspect that the wardrobe is working like a big Helmholtz resonator in that D corner. This has to be verified when measurements have been done in that tri-corner.
Wardrobe has 6 doors: 3 upside (little) and 3 downside (bigger). I only leave 1 open, the one that is on corner.
The 3 upside doors has the same compartment. That compartment is fulled of "wretched old things"
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
Wardrobe has 6 doors: 3 upside (little) and 3 downside (bigger). I only leave 1 open, the one that is on corner.
The 3 upside doors has the same compartment. That compartment is fulled of "wretched old things"
Ok, I see.

Open all the doors and measure again.
Alejandro Varela
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#155
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Ok, I see.

Open all the doors and measure again.
Later I will.
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
What do you recommend me?
Maybe adjust the low-end and add reflections treatment to high end?
That's my conclusion, not what it should be...
Getting the low end under control should be the first priority. High frequencies are a cinch to tame/control as they don't carry nearly as much energy. Low frequencies are where the majority of the energy resides (and thus takes the most effort)

Carpet on the walls may be a fire hazard, besides only soaking the highest of frequencies (leaving the mud you're hearing)

There are a variety of methods to tame these frequencies. If you go with porous absorption (THiCK and LOW density) to get your LF tamed, but you find it is over-dampening the HF-- it's relatively easy to dial back in the highs/mids with some scattering or diffusion while leaving the low end still controlled.

You can always use a combination of devices/methods to attack specific problems. Your panel resonators (assuming built correctly) should do a good job, but you will likely need several of them.
Generally, porous absorption is the first thing recommended because it doesn't have a big learning curve/trial-n-error for the uninitiated. Get results with little fuss. I'm not an expert, but i usually recommend starting with the porous, and using the other devices to do the finish work if any specific problems remain. YMMV
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#157
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Getting the low end under control should be the first priority. High frequencies are a cinch to tame/control as they don't carry nearly as much energy. Low frequencies are where the majority of the energy resides (and thus takes the most effort)

Carpet on the walls may be a fire hazard, besides only soaking the highest of frequencies (leaving the mud you're hearing)

There are a variety of methods to tame these frequencies. If you go with porous absorption (THiCK and LOW density) to get your LF tamed, but you find it is over-dampening the HF-- it's relatively easy to dial back in the highs/mids with some scattering or diffusion while leaving the low end still controlled.

You can always use a combination of devices/methods to attack specific problems. Your panel resonators (assuming built correctly) should do a good job, but you will likely need several of them.
Generally, porous absorption is the first thing recommended because it doesn't have a big learning curve/trial-n-error for the uninitiated. Get results with little fuss. I'm not an expert, but i usually recommend starting with the porous, and using the other devices to do the finish work if any specific problems remain. YMMV
Thank you very much. AwwDeOhh, really very useful. It must be a sticky...
Just 1 question Tim Farrant. The Lowest Feq Box, should it be yes or yes mounted on the triple corner, cause y 1 corner (A) 1' ve got the AC and havent enough space (34 cm) to put in...Other Box less deep can fit fine, but it will be higher in Freq?
#158
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Alejandro Varela
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28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrant View Post
Yes, it should be OK.

If you are good at carpentry you could make some of these

Tim's Corner Slat 2 Helmholtz resonator
Then I'll leave this corner empty to put a smaller box and put the actual beside.
I' ll make the same on the other corner (B) to maintein proportional view.
Thanks
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28th December 2012
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#161
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
Hey McTwins, here is the measurement you asked me:

Attachment 322898
Thanks,

Ok, it looks much the same, closed or open doors, just wanted to clarify if there was any difference. There isin't. I was hoping to see some resonances at 50Hz as in the other corners.

Too me, this is your best corner, why it is so, I don't know, maybe the construction off the wall, rigidy and so on. Leave this corner as it is for the moment.

Corner D can be seen as your reference corner. Corner ABC schould be looking like this and in your listening position. The flattest freq response and minimal resonances compared to the others corners.

I would only concentrate to treat the corner A and B and see what's happens in your listening position.
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#162
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Thanks,

Ok, it looks much the same, closed or open doors, just wanted to clarify if there was any difference. There isin't. I was hoping to see some resonances at 50Hz as in the other corners.

Too me, this is your best corner, why it is so, I don't know, maybe the construction off the wall, rigidy and so on. Leave this corner as it is for the moment.

Corner D can be seen as your reference corner. Corner ABC schould be looking like this and in your listening position. The flattest freq response and minimal resonances compared to the others corners.

I would only concentrate to treat the corner A and B and see what's happens in your listening position.
I started hanging boxes at C (finished) & D (little time to end), and then I ll continue with A & B corners :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Thanks,

Ok, it looks much the same
... just wanted to clarify if there was any difference...
...as in the other corners.

Too me, this is your best corner...
...Corner D can be seen as your reference corner.
What this mean to you?
If it's the same as the other corners, why should I take it as my reference corner?
#163
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
I started hanging boxes at C (finished) & D (little time to end), and then I ll continue with A & B corners :(


What this mean to you?
If it's the same as the other corners, why should I take it as my reference corner?
I mean like this.... you don't have to treat corner D. This corner have the best freq response and no resonances. Compare this measurement with corner ABC, here you have resonances and peaks at around 35Hz and 50Hz. Corner ABC schould have the same result as in corner D

Do you understand now.
Alejandro Varela
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29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
I mean like this.... you don't have to treat corner D. This corner have the best freq response and no resonances. Compare this measurement with corner ABC, here you have resonances and peaks at around 35Hz and 50Hz. Corner ABC schould have the same result as in corner D

Do you understand now.
Yes. thank you. I had put boxes in that corner. Must I take off?
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29th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
Yes. thank you. I had put boxes in that corner. Must I take off?
Don't know, depends if it has changed something when the box is there.

You can measure at LP and see if there is a difference.
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29th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Don't know, depends if it has changed something when the box is there.

You can measure at LP and see if there is a difference.
OK, thank you.
I couldn't hang Box's ceilings at A & B corners cause I' m using a "J Type" aluminum strap and today went to the shop, to buy more, and it was closed..
I will finish my boxes next year...
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#167
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
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Hi, I recently read this in one topic.
Can someone explain me what it means?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel9992 View Post
It's good that it's big...modal issues won't be as prominent, but you'll have to work on low frequency decay time (if you haven't treated the room already). With subs, placement is critical...I prefer using prime numbers like 1/7th the length and 3/7 the width, for example. Don't place it in the middle (usually) or in a corner.

Frank
I musn't place my sub in the middle?
#168
31st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro Varela View Post
Hi, I recently read this in one topic.
Can someone explain me what it means?


I musn't place my sub in the middle?
You place your sub where it works best. But that spot is usually found off-center.
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31st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
You place your sub where it works best. But that spot is usually found off-center.
Thank you... I didn't know it!!!
...but how can I find "where it works best"?
My Sub has an option about 0º & 180º... Where it must be placed?
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31st December 2012
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that's a matter of trial and error. Use your Analyst software (REW?).
There really isn't a one-size-fits-all answer, as it is largely dependent on your particular setup/room.
It (sub) doesn't need to be centrally located, as the frequencies it will be pushing aren't directional.
Try the placement(s) you quoted above first, and tweak from there.
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#171
2nd January 2013
Old 2nd January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post

that's a matter of trial and error. Use your Analyst software (REW?).
.
What should I read at REW?
Thanx
#172
2nd January 2013
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You're looking for linear response across the frequencies.

It helps to calibrate levels (85dB is the SMPTE standard for monitoring levels) so all speakers are pumping the same level and not out of wack.
When you get them calibrated, next you're looking for phase/time alignment between the sub and the satellites. Along with relative location, that's what the 180º switch is for on the sub.
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3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
You're looking for linear response across the frequencies.

It helps to calibrate levels (85dB is the SMPTE standard for monitoring levels) so all speakers are pumping the same level and not out of wack.
When you get them calibrated, next you're looking for phase/time alignment between the sub and the satellites. Along with relative location, that's what the 180º switch is for on the sub.
Thank you AwwDeOhh. You're the Bible!

Finally 8 Box built & Mounted. (I hadn't cut back earlier ones, 2. And leave at A & B floor corners)
Here are REW's
Clean measures.zip

Boxed measures.zip
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#174
3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
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I don't know what to think, but maybe I should rotate B floor box to D Floor Corner. IMHO... Sure I'm wrong!!!
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3rd January 2013
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Can someone analyze my new measurements pleaz?
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3rd January 2013
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Disappointing

Alejandro, I am very sorry to see this. There is very little effect from whatever treatment you have just measured. There are tiny improvements in the FR and an improvement in one null in the Waterfall. However lower down the Waterfall has become worse.
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Tuned or resonant traps are tricky to get right. That is why they are not recommended for DIY. Unless there is obvious tested success and seemingly little possibility of failure due to simple design.
e.g. This works Perforated Panel with Porous Absorber trap

DD
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3rd January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Alejandro, I am very sorry to see this. There is very little effect from whatever treatment you have just measured. There are tiny improvements in the FR and an improvement in one null in the Waterfall. However lower down the Waterfall has become worse.

Tuned or resonant traps are tricky to get right. That is why they are not recommended for DIY. Unless there is obvious tested success and seemingly little possibility of failure due to simple design.
e.g. This works Perforated Panel with Porous Absorber trap

DD
Really? WOW These is the worst thing I wanna read!!!
Year is lost!!!
Alejandro Varela
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#178
3rd January 2013
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Is something that I can do with those boxes?
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4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
I am reading entire post (and links) but I didn't notice (yet) a rule about certain freq to treat on! I only notice 2 layers with a peace of metal between each layer, isn't it?
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4th January 2013
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Alejandro....
I really don't like to repeat myself over and over again but here it goes... If you don't take care of the first axiell modal resonances the result will always be like what you have now, absolutely no difference between before and after measurements.

It seems that those boxes is not working.
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