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best in-wall insulation for exterior wall
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t_d
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2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
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best in-wall insulation for exterior wall

in a new exterior structure what would the best type of insulation be to use for both temperature control and LF absorption in between standard stud and drywall walls.

I think my builder has recommended the spray on stuff that hardens from a temperature/sealing point of view, but I'm not sure this is the best acoustically.

is it better to go with the standard pink fiberglass? rock wool? a combo?

also, from what I can tell multiple layers of drywall isn't necessary from a bass/control point of view, only a sound PROOFING point of view (for which I'm not concerned about because no neighbors to annoy in the woods)

just trying to build a decent shell which will give me a good basis for interior acoustic work.


thanks....
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3rd December 2012
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Regular fluffy insulation is the best.

Adnre
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Regular fluffy insulation is the best.

Andre
Andre,

I don't think I agree with this in this case.....

It would certainly be the best from the perspective of acoustic isolation - but seeing as the OP said this was not the case - I would look at this from the point of the best conditions for insulation - as well as invisible alpha.. and from those points of view I would lean strongly towards sprayed cellulose.

Thoughts?

Rod
t_d
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3rd December 2012
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thanks for the thoughts guys... and, yes, to clarify:

- isolation not an issue (though, i will need to move our air conditioning/heating condensor which would be close to the outside of the studio). it's noisy when its on. might be cheaper to move it than deal with acoustic isolation

- we live in new york state... so winters are cold. the studio will have radiant heating under the floors but otherwise good insulation for temperature sake is a must.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
Andre,

I don't think I agree with this in this case.....

It would certainly be the best from the perspective of acoustic isolation - but seeing as the OP said this was not the case - I would look at this from the point of the best conditions for insulation - as well as invisible alpha.. and from those points of view I would lean strongly towards sprayed cellulose.

Thoughts?

Rod
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3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
Andre,

I don't think I agree with this in this case.....

It would certainly be the best from the perspective of acoustic isolation - but seeing as the OP said this was not the case - I would look at this from the point of the best conditions for insulation - as well as invisible alpha.. and from those points of view I would lean strongly towards sprayed cellulose.

Thoughts?

Rod
My thoughts are that we do not have a clear description of what the OP wants/needs. Eric has expressed concerns with blown insulation and settling of the material over time. This has been documnented in NRC documents also. The OP has several options, and I assumed greatest importance on sound isoaltion for music. Here is a R-Value Table listing several options. Some of the options in terms of R per inch:

Fiberglass batt: 3.14
Blown cellulose in wall: 3.80
Rigid Fiberglass (> 4 lb/ft³): 4.00
Air entrained concrete: 3.9

The OP has numerous options.

I see no disagreement between you and I .

Agreeably,
Andre
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
My thoughts are that we do not have a clear description of what the OP wants/needs. Eric has expressed concerns with blown insulation and settling of the material over time. This has been documnented in NRC documents also. The OP has several options, and I assumed greatest importance on sound isoaltion for music. Here is a R-Value Table listing several options. Some of the options in terms of R per inch:

Fiberglass batt: 3.14
Blown cellulose in wall: 3.80
Rigid Fiberglass (> 4 lb/ft³): 4.00
Air entrained concrete: 3.9

The OP has numerous options.

I see no disagreement between you and I .

Agreeably,
Andre
My friend - the OP speaks of sprayed cellulose insulation - no settlement issues there - the spray cellulose is the same as blown at R3.8 per inch - however it beats out even rigid fiberglass hands down due to it's ability to adhere to the surfaces and seal them effectively to stop any potential air passage through the structure.

From the point of view or strictly insulation - I have not seen anything better than sprayed cellulose products.

Rod
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3rd December 2012
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couple more details after talking with the architects today:

- the spray-sealing foam we used in our house, that they recommend in the studio, is called ICYNENE. i'll have to google some of the acoustic properties of that. does it harden too much and thus start to become reflective?

- the reason for the icynene is that we have a flat, unvented roof... this stuff is almost a requirement in our situation due to moisture issues. using batting or other types of regular blown-in cellulose means we'd have to change the roof and vent it, which i dont' think it going to be possible.

- we COULD just do icynene on the roof and do batting on the walls.. but the icynene installers have a minimum cost to even come out to the house. it's like $3500 just to show up and $4000 to blow the stuff in. so the roof-only icynene would end up being pretty expensive


let me ask you this... if there's icynene in all the walls, and say it's not perfect acoustically,... does 6" of rockwool on the entire interior start to help and make the icynene OK to use?


like this:

FRAMING WITH ICYNENE - DRYWALL - ROCKWOOL - FABRIC

as the outside-to-inside wall structure
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3rd December 2012
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Sprayed icynene (thanks for the correction) is slightly less than cellulose (R3.6 per inch) still greater than standard fiberglass - and it's real benefit from acoustic isolation is mid range - not LF - so you still gain when it comes to invisible alpha (Andre coined the term).

It is not going to enhance your room modes to any real extent.

Rod
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_d View Post
couple more details after talking with the architects today:

- the spray-sealing foam we used in our house, that they recommend in the studio, is called ICYNENE. i'll have to google some of the acoustic properties of that. does it harden too much and thus start to become reflective?

- the reason for the icynene is that we have a flat, unvented roof... this stuff is almost a requirement in our situation due to moisture issues. using batting or other types of regular blown-in cellulose means we'd have to change the roof and vent it, which i dont' think it going to be possible.

- we COULD just do icynene on the roof and do batting on the walls.. but the icynene installers have a minimum cost to even come out to the house. it's like $3500 just to show up and $4000 to blow the stuff in. so the roof-only icynene would end up being pretty expensive


let me ask you this... if there's icynene in all the walls, and say it's not perfect acoustically,... does 6" of rockwool on the entire interior start to help and make the icynene OK to use?


like this:

FRAMING WITH ICYNENE - DRYWALL - ROCKWOOL - FABRIC

as the outside-to-inside wall structure
Is the Icynene recommended closed cell or self skinning? Either reduces sound isoaltion performance significantly.

Andre
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
My friend - the OP speaks of sprayed cellulose insulation - no settlement issues there -
Thank you for the clarification.

Andre
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Is the Icynene recommended closed cell or self skinning? Either reduces sound isoaltion performance significantly.

Andre
Remember that he is not concerned with isolation (from the outside world)- in fact - the greater the benefit he can get from invisible alpha the better, is what it sounds like to me.

Rod
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3rd December 2012
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looks like icynene has a new open-cell (whatever that means) type of insulation that looks to be even better

these are the acoustic properties of it... (i don't know what ASTM is.. or how to read these charts)

STC Sound Transmission Class - 37 Hz.
Freq. 125 250 500 1000 2000 4000
ASTME90 19 30 31 42 38 46

NRC Noise Reduction Coefficient - 70 Hz.
Freq. 125 250 500 1000 2000 4000
ASTM C423 .11 .43 .89 .72 .71 .67

anyway.. we'll be looking into these things!
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
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looks like icynene has a new open-cell (whatever that means) type of insulation that looks to be even better

anyway.. we'll be looking into these things!
Fantatic!

Andre
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