Login / Register
 
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)
New Reply
Subscribe
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#31
16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
  #31
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Hi again :-)

What I haven´t done yet, is to lower/heighten the monitors, move the monitors, change the listening position etc.

Maybe I could gain something by trying different things.

/Henning
#32
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #32
Gear addict
 
Jolida's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 489

Jolida is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Here I managed to get the pics as thumbnails :-)
Which software is this?
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#33
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #33
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Fuzzmeasure for Mac.
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#34
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #34
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
So, now I have bass trapped more or less the whole room. This means wall - wall, wall - ceiling and floor - wall.


There are 1 to 2 feet left not bass trapped for each corner except from wall to wall which is trapped all the way. Maybe I can push in more traps, but I have now where it becomes very unpractical to add to the space that is left.

But, the decay in the low end is now even shorter but not perfect I guess.

When I looked at the graphs in the beginning of this post, the mid and the highs pretty much looks the same (at least to me :-). I have experienced with different numbers of panels on the side walls and the back wall, but without any major changes as I see it.

So here you can se what it looks like now......the name of the pictures tell if it is the left, right ot both speakers..
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-both-speakers-1711.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-left-speaker-1711.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-right-speaker-1711.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-both-speakers-1711.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-left-right-speaker-1711.jpg  

Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-both-speakers-1711.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-left-right-speaker-1711.jpg  

Last edited by Mastergod; 17th November 2012 at 07:13 PM.. Reason: Add info.
#35
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #35
Gear Head
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 43

Yosem is offline
Mastergod, i think you have something wrong in the high frecuencies. IMO This oscilation is not normal. Do you tested your speaker in the outside or something similar to a free field??. If you have a pc I recommend to measure with rew to compare the results.
In the low frecuencies you can make a helmholtz bass trap to fix the modal problem at 36hz
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#36
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #36
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Hi Yosem.

I don't really know what you mean by "freefield".

What doesn't look right about the hi-end?

Yes, I can also do a test using REW on a PC. I will try that tomorrow.

/Henning.
#37
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #37
Gear Head
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 43

Yosem is offline
Freefield, outside of your room, maybe in front of your house or in your garden . I see a oscilation in your graphs that are not normal, maybe your microphone or your audio card are not correctly calibrated, the speaker usually are practically flat in that fecuencies
#38
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #38
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,102

jim1961 is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Hi Yosem.

I don't really know what you mean by "freefield".

What doesn't look right about the hi-end?

Yes, I can also do a test using REW on a PC. I will try that tomorrow.

/Henning.
I think he is talking about that "wavy" nature you and I discussed earlier, and I agree with him. It shouldn't look like that.
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#39
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #39
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Thank you for your replies!

I will try to measure with REW tomorrow and see if that changes anything.

I am not sure I can measure outside these days due to heavy rain :-)

If I understand you right, this frequency area uaually are flatter than my graphs show, so I guess reality isn't worse at least :-)

/Henning
#40
17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
  #40
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,102

jim1961 is online now
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-11-15-etc-right-channel-1-24th.jpg

Mine is not perfect either, but this kind of smoothness you should have.

This is @ 1/24th octave smoothing just like yours.
#41
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,692

Jens Eklund is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1961 View Post
I think he is talking about that "wavy" nature you and I discussed earlier, and I agree with him. It shouldn't look like that.
That kind of response (including the comb filtering artefacts) are typical for measurements where you have problems with early, strong reflections (from the desk etc.). These problems are easily spotted by analysing the ETC. Another common cause for this, is if you by accident recorded the IR with both speakers playing. Unless the mic is carefully centred exactly in-between the speakers, the comb filter is what you get due to a slight delay between the two signals.

A general comment regarding scales and useful plots can be found here:Before posting your measurement results
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#42
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #42
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Hi Jens.

Thank you for your reply!

The graphs have the same artifacts if I measure the left, right or both speakers.

For microphone placement, It is the same distance from it to both speakers. But I am not shure they are 100% alligned the same way.

If the ETC shows the early reflections are coming from the desk, how do I approach to solve it?

The desk is there :-)

/Henning
#43
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #43
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,692

Jens Eklund is offline
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#44
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #44
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Thanks!
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#45
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #45
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Hi again.

Here is the ETC for the left and rigth speaker. Is the sinner the desk :-)

/Henning
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-etc-left-speaker.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-etc-right-speaker.jpg  
#46
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #46
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,102

jim1961 is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Hi again.

Here is the ETC for the left and rigth speaker. Is the sinner the desk :-)

/Henning
Your settings need tweaking.

1) we need to see to 0 db on the vertical plot
2) the signal should start at 0 time, not 30 something ms

Here is an illustration:

Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-10-25-etc-r.gif
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#47
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #47
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Hi again.

I can now confirm it is the desk causing the issue. I put a panel on it and the artifact was gone.

I will post the graphs tomorrow.

Now, how to solve it would be next step :-)
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#48
18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
  #48
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Here's a picture...Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353277030.075760.jpg
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#49
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #49
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-front-cloud.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-side-wall.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-back-wall.jpg  
#50
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #50
Lives for gear
 
AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: State of Insomnia, sleepless USA
Posts: 2,550

AwwDeOhh is offline
can you angle your desk? try propping up the back legs for now and see if that helps
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#51
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #51
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Thank you for your advice. I will try to do that!

/Henning
#52
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,692

Jens Eklund is offline
How about reducing the size of that big reflector?

Tilting it might also help, as would increasing the distance to the monitors.
#53
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #53
Lives for gear
 
DaVogi's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vienna

DaVogi is offline
your highs seemed overdamped and the lows not enough... this is typical if you use as much broadband absorption than you did. not every absorber has to work in the whole frequency domain. your superchunks in the front for example....
#54
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,692

Jens Eklund is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVogi View Post
... this is typical if you use as much broadband absorption ...
+1

Sticky with links?
#55
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #55
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 16,637

Glenn Kuras is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVogi View Post
your highs seemed overdamped and the lows not enough... this is typical if you use as much broadband absorption than you did. not every absorber has to work in the whole frequency domain. your superchunks in the front for example....
You could use FRK on the fronts or better yet a slat design to help scatter/a bit of diffusion.
__________________
Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics USA
GIK Acoustics Europe
http://www.gikacoustics.de (German Translation)
404 492 8364 (USA)
+44 (0) 20 7558 8976 (Europe)

Built in Slat design (Scattering/Diffusion) on all Bass Traps click here
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#56
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #56
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Here is the newest measurement with panels lying on the desk.

/Henning
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-2-left-right-speaker.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-left-right-both.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-both-speakers.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-left-right-both.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-left-speaker.jpg  

Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-right-speaker.jpg  
Mastergod
Thread Starter
#57
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #57
Gear nut
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 102

Thread Starter
Mastergod is offline
Thank you for your answers! It is very much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
How about reducing the size of that big reflector?

Tilting it might also help, as would increasing the distance to the monitors.
Hi Jens. Which absorber are you reffering to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVogi View Post
your highs seemed overdamped and the lows not enough... this is typical if you use as much broadband absorption than you did. not every absorber has to work in the whole frequency domain. your superchunks in the front for example....
How do I read my measurements to see that the highs are overdamped. If I change the absorbtion to something "thinner" how would it show in the
graphs?

When you say the lows are not damped enough, are you refering to the decay? I have attached the latest Waterfall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
You could use FRK on the fronts or better yet a slat design to help scatter/a bit of diffusion.
Glenn: Do you mean to "slat" the absorbtion panels?
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-1811-left-speaker.jpg  
#58
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #58
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 16,637

Glenn Kuras is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Thank you for your answers! It is very much appreciated!



Hi Jens. Which absorber are you reffering to?



How do I read my measurements to see that the highs are overdamped. If I change the absorbtion to something "thinner" how would it show in the
graphs?

When you say the lows are not damped enough, are you refering to the decay? I have attached the latest Waterfall.



Glenn: Do you mean to "slat" the absorbtion panels?
Yes it would be slats in front of the absorptive material. Run them vertically if you can.
#59
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #59
Lives for gear
 
DaVogi's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vienna

DaVogi is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
How do I read my measurements to see that the highs are overdamped. If I change the absorbtion to something "thinner" how would it show in the
graphs?

When you say the lows are not damped enough, are you refering to the decay? I have attached the latest Waterfall.
you can see that in the waterfall (full bandwith and 50-60dB range) or rt60 (yes it isn't a real rt60 but still informal) graphs, but it is hard to see in your chosen scaling.

you don't want to make your traps thinner (that would even WORSEN your low/high absorption ratio) but you want traps that only should absorb low mids and bass like your superchunks in the front to REFLECT highs. slats can do that as glenn already mentioned.
#60
19th November 2012
Old 19th November 2012
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,692

Jens Eklund is offline
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
joelpatterson / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
45
carrot / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
2
ajfarber / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
4
Meriphew / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
7
el cochino / Live Sound
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.