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Wide 110hz peak - narrow 150 huge dip.
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11th November 2012
Old 11th November 2012
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Wide 110hz peak - narrow 150 huge dip.

I'll upload some measurments tommorow.

My room goes 2m wide by 2.77m high by 4m long.
And with the current front cornerchunk from floor to ceiling + 2-4inch relfection panels and some 2 2-inch panels at ear point.

I have tried re-placing my speakers in the most possible ways but it does almost nothing to those Huge peaks and dip.

I wonder if 2-4Inch traps in the Back ceiling-backwal corner will solve atleast the 110hz peak ?. What about a additional Cloud 100mm thick 5000rayls glasswool for the 150hz dip ?.

I'm suggestings these 2 cuz that'll make my room more packed up especially with the clouds it's going to hav emy mixing position seriously ummm isolated with panels let's say.


I'd realy appreciate al help cuz the 110hz peak seems to give me headaches when i'm realy paying attention to bass in music also i have some dificulties mixing from 100 to 300 ish zone i feel. It's still muddy.

Thinking aswel about kicking out the Krk's and get other 6 inch cone speakers.
Krk seems to have it's reputation off being bassy and i have the feeling it's true after all these years.

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11th November 2012
Old 11th November 2012
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You need to figure out where the reflection is coming from and treat that area. If the ceiling then treat it. You should have a cloud anyway. It may be coming off your desk. Needless to say though I would start with the cloud and go from there.
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11th November 2012
Old 11th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
You need to figure out where the reflection is coming from and treat that area. If the ceiling then treat it. You should have a cloud anyway. It may be coming off your desk. Needless to say though I would start with the cloud and go from there.
I don't know realy...move the mic forward-backwards just makes it a Dip goes up Peak goes down and vice versa game .

The sweep from 35hz to 800 hz with both speakers result in a stable frequency chart from 200hz to 800hz but below there oh boy looks like 1 big sinewave up and down we go your favorite rolelrcoaster is no competition .

I feel like throwing my speakers out the window.
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11th November 2012
Old 11th November 2012
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Quote:
I don't know realy...move the mic forward-backwards just makes it a Dip goes up Peak goes down and vice versa game .
That would say that it is coming from the back wall. Move it up and down and if that changes chances are that is the height. It can also be speaker location.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
That would say that it is coming from the back wall. Move it up and down and if that changes chances are that is the height. It can also be speaker location.
I have added another 120mm trap yesterday but have placed in the backwall-ceiling corner now.
Only got 1 up in the left uper corner but will will build another 1 soon.

Just made some tests again exactly just at mixing position (measured distances and what not for accurate info. Mic pointed to forntwall at 115cm from tweeters and 115 off ground (measured from mics tip to tweeter/floor).

As you'll be able to see it's kinda steady above 200hz but below that it's a huge mess.

Treatment at the moment exsists out off 2 front chunks floor to ceiling 150mm thick fluffy insulation crammed in the corners, 2 120mm traps at reflection points, 2 60mm thick traps right beside me each side, and that 1 trap in the backwall-ceiling corner.

I also have to mention that 100 and 150 hz realy seem to be powerfull at mixing position only....that area is like a box isolated with problems bellow 200 hz.

All input is greatly appreciated and i believe this issue is a real test.
Since i have spend a day doing a million things which i can think off anyhow.

Once again thanks for all the help !!.

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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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That dip at 160 hz is speaker placement or mix spot. Keep in mind of a few things. First the decay times don't look all that bad (both speak test as there was some kind of noise with the others) and second to get a room +/-8 db on the low end is considered pretty darn good (you are pretty much there). Trust me if you move the mic a few inches (like moving your head) things will change again. Focus on the decay times as that really is where the clarity on the low end comes from.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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I'm suspecting somehow the panels at reflection points betwen me and speakers are causing something with that 100-110ish hz wide peak tough, honestly i feel the results aren't realy that great but i could be wronge.

The low end realy decreased when i fodled a sock and shoved it into the bass port.
Krk's have a reputation off being bassy - good for regular listening but i wouldn't like it for mixing. I'll post more updates after the second trap has been placed and what not.

I also plan on building a 1.20m long by 60cm wide cloud with left over fluffy insulation 100mm thick with a carton facing and a carton backing 2 (prevent fibres dropping and stop absorbing high end).

Btw; Excuse me for the nagging. Just tryng to keep my journey as detailed as possible.
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14th November 2012
Old 14th November 2012
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Okay 2 traps in the backwall-ceiling corner are hanging and did another measurment.
To my surprise it made the dip worse and the peak louder, bright side off this is...
the decay time in the low end improved, i think it does a pretty good job. (The ''Before'' test got lost somehow :/)
90-170 hz and 290hz dip are realy too severe i find. That -20db at 157hz is just nasty.
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#9
14th November 2012
Old 14th November 2012
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Measure each speaker. See if it is speaker location. If not then try moving the mix spot a bit. Decay times are looking pretty nice so you have things a lot better then you really think. When you are working you will move your head around which the frequency response will change. Great to get it inline but decay times are what really matter at the end of he day.
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15th November 2012
Old 15th November 2012
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I have been messing around some more but that 110hz peak remains the same or it gets worse. Same for that Huge Dip. I don't know what to do anymore have replaced the panels, monitors, change mixing positions etc...

All i can say is those 2 frequencies has a influence on each other if the 1 gets better the others get worse, and i don't know how to get those 2 more flat.
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16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
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Okay i'm back once again, i whas just in the basement and caught my eye on a old matress of me laying double fodled up there.

So i came with a crazy tought about getting it up in my room and hang it up as a Huge cloud (in hope) to fix my 2 problematic frequencies.
So is there someone else who shares a positive expectation from this ?.
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16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
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You first need to figure out the cause of the problem (modal, SBIR or a combination). Once you know what causes the problem(s), you can focus on treating relevant areas (related to the actual problem) using appropriate measures.
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16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
You first need to figure out the cause of the problem (modal, SBIR or a combination). Once you know what causes the problem(s), you can focus on treating relevant areas (related to the actual problem) using appropriate measures.
Wel i'm clueless my friend. Spending days to get it improved but nothing seems to change it. My room is realy small so i don't hav emutch room to move things what so ever.
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16th November 2012
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part of the problem is you have 2 dimensions which are octaves (width and length) and a number of tangential modes between the height and length so you have some sharp reinforcement from multiple directions along with the large mode spacing which makes the issues even more apparent. you may just have to find the best positions of speakers and seating possible along with some deep absorption on the ceiling and back wall (for example) and then tweak some EQ to get your main listening position as close as possible. or find a bigger room
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16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
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I didn't test before but maybe the math work for you...
106hz = 320cm. If you have the mic at 115cm from the front speaker, i think you have two first reflections of 115+320=435cm between -> front speaker -> wall -> microphone. Maybe your back and opposite side wall?. For 110hz you need at least 25cm of rock wool 30kg in the reflection.
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17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo View Post
part of the problem is you have 2 dimensions which are octaves (width and length) and a number of tangential modes between the height and length so you have some sharp reinforcement from multiple directions along with the large mode spacing which makes the issues even more apparent. you may just have to find the best positions of speakers and seating possible along with some deep absorption on the ceiling and back wall (for example) and then tweak some EQ to get your main listening position as close as possible. or find a bigger room
Hey Gulfo !,

i don't know if this info is of any value but...
The 110hz peak seems to be most noticeable at mixing spot only.
If i move further to the back-go higher in height i notice it dissapears.

But when i sit down and listen to some music it starsts to give some pressure like headache realy not enjoyable. So i tought bout hanging a thick matress i have left in the basement and space it a good 10cm or so from the ceiling.

it can never hurt the low end tough ?, since the low end is known to be some ruthless big waves which need some thick treatment to stop it.
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17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
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Try raising the height of your monitors a bit. Some bricks/cinder blocks or books, and retest. What happens?
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17th November 2012
Old 17th November 2012
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Diden't change realy mutch, and i don't like my speakers to be too mutch up high otherwise it seems that my highs are dissapearing.
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17th November 2012
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It is likely the front wall corners or back wall corners causing the peak. Measure the distance to the corners from speakers and also the distance from listening spot to corner. If it coincides with a full wavelength (or near, within -+6%), you have your answer.

I remember you making a thread long ago. Did you use any of my advice?
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18th November 2012
Old 18th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
It is likely the front wall corners or back wall corners causing the peak. Measure the distance to the corners from speakers and also the distance from listening spot to corner. If it coincides with a full wavelength (or near, within -+6%), you have your answer.

I remember you making a thread long ago. Did you use any of my advice?
Left speaker 3.71m From right backwall corner.
Right speaker 3.90m from left backwall corner.

Mix position to backwall 2.58m

Old thread of mine ?, i'll check it out.
Cuz i just got recently back on Gearslutz.
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20th November 2012
Old 20th November 2012
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Okay so since the backwall is mentioned a serveral times...
i guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to get that matress out of the basement and place it on the backwall ?.

Never know how the frequency responds and decay time will re-act too it.
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20th November 2012
Old 20th November 2012
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if it is the back wall it should change it..
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