Compensation of different speaker-ear distances by different gain settings

[180phase]

Hey DAH,

If the distance between the two speakers isn't the same at the listening position then you could time delay the channel closest to you in order to match the one furthest. Then use gain to match the spl loss.

You can calculate the delay by dividing the difference in distance / the speed of sound.


Hope this helps.

[DAH]

Originally Posted by 180phase

Hey DAH,

If the distance between the two speakers isn't the same at the listening position then you could time delay the channel closest to you in order to match the one furthest. Then use gain to match the spl loss.

You can calculate the delay by dividing the difference in distance / the speed of sound.


Hope this helps.

Hey 180phase, thanks, I know this. That is rather a pure theoretical debate, so no time delays are involved, just gain. I cannot explain it in layman's terms to the opponent what i feel to be correct, so I am seeking for an (dis)approvement here by professionals.

[localhost127]

Originally Posted by 180phase

If the distance between the two speakers isn't the same at the listening position then you could time delay the channel closest to you in order to match the one furthest. Then use gain to match the spl loss.

You can calculate the delay by dividing the difference in distance / the speed of sound.

would one not also need to take into account polar lobing issues due to the spaced sources and distance inconsistencies?

[180phase]

Simply put,

The difference in distance between the left and right speaker will delay the sound wave traveling to your ears.

As sound hits your ear drum your brain doesn't just look at intensity for positioning it also looks at precedence or which ear hears what first.

Stereo position is not the only problem. If both your waves are not properly coupled then you will also get summing issues like comb filtering.

[avare]

Originally Posted by DAH

Let us assume we have a stereo setup with the speaker-ear distance varying between the left and the right speaker (like 2 feet).
My opinion is we cannot compensate for it by applying a higher gain to the more distant speaker since we cannot compensate time-domain anomalies by gain to obtain the correct sound staging, can we?
I would like to get some simply-put science behind the Yes or No.
IME I have heard the anomaly (and corrected it) when the speaker-difference was less than an inch.

You are joking if you think there is a simple yes/no answer.

Here is a calculator for stereo phantom image location as a function of level and delay.

Localization Calculator

[DAH]

Originally Posted by avare

You are joking if you think there is a simple yes/no answer.

Here is a calculator for stereo phantom image location as a function of level and delay.

Localization Calculator

Thank you very much, Andre! AFAIU, 1,5 msec difference (0,5 m distance difference) gives 100% perception of the sound coming from the direction of the closer speaker?

[avare]

Originally Posted by DAH

Thank you very much, Andre! AFAIU, 1,5 msec difference (0,5 m distance difference) gives 100% perception of the sound coming from the direction of the closer speaker?

You have the calculator.

For an equilateral listening position from sound sources, yes.

Andre

[DAH]

Originally Posted by avare

You have the calculator.

For an equilateral listening position from sound sources, yes.

Andre

It just was unclear what 100% referred to.

[DAH]

The opponent pointed me at some Russian (psycho)acoustics\stereophony book which says compensating time difference is possible with gain till some threshold time delta value where the gain compensation will only wash out the sound image.
I can hardly believe it.
To me it sounds like the unaltered signal and its delayed and amplified copy will form a pin-point mono sound image, which absolutely incredible with signals like percussion and drums at least.
Are there researches dedicated to this issue?

[180phase]

This is a false statement.

Gain can be used to give the perception of realigning the stereo image in the case that the delayed signal "feels" like its panned. But in this case the source will also sound much wider, although centered. This trick is used in mixes where no doubles where made for a proper Haas. It's kinda like cheating. But it works!

You can use a program called audacity to try this for yourself.

Please note that in this example the speakers are not offset.

[DrewHulva]

Sound travels only so fast. It's one speed... Well depending where you are and through what medium, but It does not matter at what loudness they reach the ears, the phase difference will be there. You can trick the brain by increasing the gain of one to move the Phantom image, but it will just confuse you, as the phase differences will say it's one place but the level differences will say it's another.

The brain uses different cues (phase and/or level) for different frequencies, and you have developed your localization ability during your life using these.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[DAH]

Effect of Arrival Time on Stereophonic Localization by William B. Snow 1954 - is this article at $30 worth its price to disapprove the statement that the ITD of 1,5 msec cannot be effectively compensated by pure gain of the delayed channel on a wide bandwith signal (drums\speech)?
My opponent says these are the shitty non-anechoic rooms and modern loudspeakers which make the compensation impossible due to their not-matched characteristics and acoustics.
My point was and still is that it is theoretically impossible to get the mono source from a stereo chain with one delayed and then gain-compensated channel back due to the perceived phase difference and the better the test monitoring chain is the more obvious this gets.