My Attempt to Build A Professional Studio In BKK

[Hans Kobboon]

I am sorry for the Pic size, i try to correct it but could not find a way.

Please kindly help

[Hans Kobboon]

MOre picture of Construction Process









I guess the pictures tell story how i did it pretty much

Here is the measurement, this is done with mackie 8" monitor, but the subwoofer hole is still opening which alter the sound a lot, they were at 1.3.4.5.7M

and this is the RT 60



and as i was saying, i wanted both room to be able to switch from live / Mixing, so i do not want dead RT for live but if the RT is too great then it ll alter the room too much,

The reason for the doubling function is that, i do not ve enough money to build two large room so i attempt to to this, however now i do not know which direction to go for? or should i try to go middle maybe .35-.5 Sec for the larger room.

I was told by senior engineer over here to use diffuse instead of absorber to make the room even larger but more even interm of Freq spectrum

Please advise

[Hans Kobboon]

Anyone? PLease kindly give suggestion.

[jhbrandt]

Hans,

It looks real pretty. But I can't tell much from your photos.. It's a bit late for any design recommendations. It's done. How is the sound isolation? Did you hit your target STL goal?

I see lots of corners angled off and not used as trapping, lots of layers and framing, but I don't see any decoupling.

I am very close to you since I live in Jakarta, Indonesia.

Cheers,
John

[Hans Kobboon]

Thankyou, As you said the sound Isolation is done but the Inside Acoustic i still have much work to do.

I still ve not close all the faces, and i agree i didnt provide enough informations, i ll come back with as many information as i can. I am trying to do this right and i am greatly appreciate all comments Plus or Minus

Thankyou so much for the helps

[jhbrandt]

Hans,

Here are my recommendations anyway:

1. do NOT place a rock wall directly behind the mix position - hard specular reflections even though it is random rock or brick.
2. Move the mix position back to {room length X .375} for best LF response @ mix position.
3. Since it seems that you have built this room as RFZ - reflective surfaces; You must have serious trapping in the ceiling and back of the room. Diffusion is important for the back wall, but you need to bring the LF decay down to at least 0.4sec RT-60. Also, since your construction is brick/block/concrete you will need considerable limp-mass traps to control the resonances below 100Hz, unless you have much more space that is not shown.
4. The small room is turned the wrong way unless you have 80cm deep trapping behind the mix position. The angles eat up precious space that could be better used for trapping and extending the modal support zone.
Note: even though you have layered your construction, I would not expect to see much more that STC50-55 with improved Low Frequency sound transmission loss, since it is not decoupled. Flanking noise may be a problem.

I wish you the best. There are quite a few people on this forum with excellent information and ideas for you, if you had checked here before you built. Andre's tag line is, "Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction" - That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Cheers,
John

PS: But it really IS nice looking - I love the wood.

[Hans Kobboon]

Hi jhbrandt

Firstly thankyou for your help.

Please excuse my english, i guess the decoupling is the space between each layer correct?

About the Rock, the rock size, shape, and the way they install are in random manner, very much different than the render picture. They are quite sharp some of them did cut me when i clean them. I thought this would act as a diffuser because it no longer has a flat panel reflect area.

I think RT .4 would be good for what i am trying to achieve. (2 Function Room) Thankyou.

May i ask what is flanking noise?


I wanted to leave more space between layer as well but i do not have them, i guess that will make the sound proofing not effective as it can correct?

I ll try to close all faces and do a measurement of STC and magnitude again, and i ll come back and post the results.

I will hang some 80kg sq3 rockwool on top of the room and cover them with fabric sort of like curtains, they ll not be straight sheet. To try to lower the RT 60

I am greatful to all comments

Thankyou so much

[Hans Kobboon]

The other day i luckily met Sam Toyoshima and i show him my studio, he said that next time he come here he ll visit my studio, and this is his suggestion.

I ll need to put in Bass traps in every corner.

Ill nee to get my Full Spectrum RT down to .3, which i ll make some Sound Panel and some suspension system so that if i want refelct for live feeling i can just take the suspension up and vice versa .

He also siad that the rock wall only diffuse Mid/Low frequency which is why i ll ve to do a good job on trapping the bass

The hole below the L/R speaker, i ll make use of it as bass trap. that has a lenght of 4M, so if i do it right it should go down to 80hz maybe??

and as i said all corner ll be place with bass trap.


I am no pro, and i some inputs really helps me.

Thankyou

[Hans Kobboon]

more pics





That ll be my live area, i ll have Portable soundboard come in when use as mixdown as i said this is intended to use double function



This is a close up shot of how those rock were installed, with this type of installation i thought they would act as a HF MF Diffuser.

i ll need a lot of advices to complete this, i know its seems a little late for the design alteration but portable acoustic can be place to tune up the room.

I really need advice from you guys. Please Please Please

[jhbrandt]

Hans,

i guess the decoupling is the space between each layer correct?

Decoupling is similar to a floating floor on springs... the new floor or wall DOES NOT TOUCH the exiting floor OR walls - it Floats. For walls and ceilings, you do the same thing - resilient decoupling.
- Due to the forces of gravity, walls and ceilings MUST be connected to something that will support them, ie; resilient sway bracing for walls and resilient hangers for ceilings. No isolated (interior) structure can rigidly touch the existing structure. I hope you understand. I have attached a photo of a resilient sway brace and hanger.

About the Rock, the rock size, shape, and the way they install are in random manner, very much different than the render picture. They are quite sharp some of them did cut me when i clean them. I thought this would act as a diffuser because it no longer has a flat panel reflect area.

I now see what you mean. You will need to test it to be certain. I do not recommend just 'going with it'. Use REW, speaker facing the wall about 3 meters away and look at the Impulse response & frequency response. You can post it here or send me the REW file & I'll critique.

I think RT .4 would be good for what i am trying to achieve. (2 Function Room)

Yes, 0.4 sec would work nicely for your purposes. We usually get about 0.2 sec in our control rooms, but that may be too tight for tracking.. acoustic guitar, for example.

May i ask what is flanking noise?

Sound 'flanking' around an isolating partition. Flanking is a millitary term describing when facing an enemy, a platoon is ordered to 'go around the side' and hit the enemy from a different angle... Flank the enemy.

I wanted to leave more space between layer as well but i do not have them, i guess that will make the sound proofing not effective as it can correct?

Increasing the air-gap increases the isolation. Yes. But don't go spending money where you don't need to. You always want to set your isolation requirements based on earlier testing of your location and find a realistically attainable NUMBER reference to shoot for.

I ll try to close all faces and do a measurement of STC and magnitude again, and i ll come back and post the results.

Closing the faces will most likely couple the partitions further...

I will hang some 80kg sq3 rockwool on top of the room and cover them with fabric sort of like curtains, they ll not be straight sheet. To try to lower the RT 60

You also want to eliminate floor to ceiling reflections or 'flutter' echo.

The other day i luckily met Sam Toyoshima and i show him my studio, he said that next time he come here he ll visit my studio, and this is his suggestion. I ll need to put in Bass traps in every corner.
Ill nee to get my Full Spectrum RT down to .3, which i ll make some Sound Panel and some suspension system so that if i want refelct for live feeling i can just take the suspension up and vice versa .

Not a bad idea, but I would stick with RT 0.4 for your situation.

He also siad that the rock wall only diffuse Mid/Low frequency which is why i ll ve to do a good job on trapping the bass

Yes. This is due to the depth of the rock pieces. I am still concerned about mid range specular reflections from it.

The hole below the L/R speaker, i ll make use of it as bass trap. that has a lenght of 4M, so if i do it right it should go down to 80hz maybe??

1/4 wavelength of 4 meters is 21.5Hz.. which is really NOT a problem in your room.

Cheers!
John

[andrebrito]

The front wall to be reflective is not a problem if the speakers are flushed. This is quite usual on NE rooms, I have been on several studios who use this approach here in Portugal and they sound just fine.

What worries me is if you are going to decouple the speakers from the wall itself. There are other stuff that needs to be corrected in the room.

I don't know why some people insist on doing their rooms all by themselves. The cost of the acoustical project is just a fraction of the total cost of the studio and it really helps to prevent "mistakes" to happen which later on can't be solved OR cost much more to solved than the project itself

[Hans Kobboon]

The reason i did this by myself is that so i can learn from my mistake.

i want to learn the art of making a recording studio , i think doing it is very different than reading from a book so i took this route.

Plus there isnt any much Acoustician here in BKK, mostly overseas.

I ve not done any Interior acoustic absorber, what i ve post beside the rock and bended wall are for sound proofing.

I planed to make several Sound Board and hang them like picture where i need them.

I am in the process of learning this Art, i accept all my mistakes and willing to improve myself.

I appreciated all your comments.

I really want to do this right, please help me out guys.

Once there s a development, i ll make some measurement for you guys to critique.

Thankyou all

Thankyou jhbrandt
Thankyou Andrebrito

[Hans Kobboon]

Hi jhbrandt



The only thing that touch the concrete structure is that L shape steel in the picture, which installed with a rubber that has 2 different screw on it ( one each side seperated / not one thru the rubber ) the ae made to absorb machine exhaust vibration. We do not have much ready made acoustic product over here.

Other touching point are on the floating floor

You mention " A lot of layer but no decoupling" so did i or didnt i? i didnt quite get it.

Since i am no pro and i maybe wrong but i see my studio as is in the acoustic treatment process, trying to lower the RT down to .4
With all the Gears, Furnitures come in they ll also absorb a lot. After that Then i ll can really measure the room and find an appropriated Acoustic Panel / Trap to solve my final tunning.

That was the plan anyway, if i am going at the wrong direction please kindly suggest me solution.

Before i started i knew i ll ve to move back and forward to get this right because i am learning this.

i am greatly appreciate the help

Thankyou

[Hans Kobboon]

Some more pictures




This is the Rubber i talked about




They were used to seperate vibration from each area


34 kg Fiber Glass under Window area



The Heavy Rubber sheet were glue to add more isolation and little LF absorbtion



Please critiques.

Thankyou

[Hans Kobboon]

how to rock were installed, they quite big and the hole between them can go deep up to 3 inchs approx but its deep. they were from bottom of the river.



Font panel

[andrebrito]

A few pads for the speakers is recommended and make sure they don't touch the walls

You need to choose the pads according to its weight and frequency range of the speakers

[jhbrandt]

Hans,

Yes, I've seen those rubber products here in Indonesia. But I don't have the specs on them.. doubtful if they are provided by the manufacturer.

They may work fine as sway bracing, depending on the load placed upon them.. BUT, I have no idea without documentation.

NOTE: Mason Industries has TWO manufacturing plants: One in New York and One in Bangkok, Thailand. -- It's probably right down the street from you. You probably could have bought 'the good stuff' at an affordable price.

... Yeah, your rock wall may be fine, but I'd still recommend testing prior to closing the option of changing something.. just so that you don't have any problems down the road.

Will you flush your speakers? or have you decided to have them free standing?

Cheers,
John

[Hans Kobboon]

Yes i do know about Mason Acoustic Thailand, they are very expensive here and the Thai Engineer does not seems to know what they are selling but thats just my two cents. I worked for Major Audio Contractor here and we ve worked with Mason many times thats all i can say.


I ll make some measurement soon and i ll post them for you to criticize

and Yes i ll flush my main monitor, but the rest ll be on stand

Thankyou

[jhbrandt]

Hans,

Ahem, Mason Acoustics is NOT Mason Industries... MI has been around for over 50 years and has opened a plant in Thailand to produce their products for that side of the world.

Here is Mason Industries main office: Noise, Vibration Isolation, Seismic Restraint Products offered by Mason Industries inc.
UK distributor: Floating Floors - Mason UK - Acoustic Engineers
Australian distributor: Mason Mercer Australia | Noise Control and Vibration Isolation Products| Rubber Expansion Joints
.. but the factory for Australia IS in Bangkok.
I had the pleasure to meet with Norman Mason about 3 months ago here in Jakarta. The man is 88 years old and still inventing very cool stuff.

Cheers,
John

[Hans Kobboon]

Ohh how silly i was, Thxs so much Jhbrandt.

i didnt know about them before, i ll sure look up for them.

[Hans Kobboon]

I plan to install these for both of my side wall, lose a bit of space

i ve small question regarding the AC Noise, i installed VR for the AC fan to reduce the air noise, however since the current drawn to the motor is lower then the motor started to spin unstable which create noise.

if i rewind the Motor with smaller copper wire gage, is that possible to solve my problem.


Thankyou

[Hans Kobboon]

The rewind is not needed for 15000btu AC, however the 25000btu the motor is larger. just to be a bit more specific

Thxs

[Hans Kobboon]

i plan to move all my gear in position first then i ll start to treat the room with absorber to bring RT down to .35,.4 whole spectrum as i was suggested.

I ll post my IR for you guys to critique.

Thankyou again

[Hans Kobboon]

I ll build the Equipments table myself, this is the design. USing 2x 3M multi touch screen and maybe 8ch of hardware fader.