Treatment advice PLEASE!!!

[Glenn Kuras]

What would be most ideal in this scenaraio on the ceiling above the drumset, assuming the rest of the walls are pretty nicely treated with both absorption and diffusion already?

I would put 4" panels spaced off the ceiling a few inches above the drums.

As far as the booth the room is small so using diffusion will not work. Also keep in mind that small booths like that never sound all that great. You would be much better off to spend the money on the room itself and record in there.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

I would put 4" panels spaced off the ceiling a few inches above the drums.

As far as the booth the room is small so using diffusion will not work. Also keep in mind that small booths like that never sound all that great. You would be much better off to spend the money on the room itself and record in there.

Thanks Glenn!

So, 2 panels forming, say, a 4x4 box above the drumset about 2-3 inches form the ceiling should be enough? That'll still give me 2-3 feet of space between the highest cymbal and the treatment...do I have that right?

Also, I understand that in smaller spaces, sometimes even just 2" polystyrene diffusors(I know, not a real diffusor) can help scatter upper frequencies so you're not just putting absorption in the space and drying the whole thing out...is this not the case?

[kasmira]

Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik

So, 2 panels forming, say, a 4x4 box above the drumset about 2-3 inches form the ceiling should be enough? That'll still give me 2-3 feet of space between the highest cymbal and the treatment...do I have that right?

Yep. If you can afford a larger air gap, I'd say go for it.

Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik

Also, I understand that in smaller spaces, sometimes even just 2" polystyrene diffusors(I know, not a real diffusor) can help scatter upper frequencies so you're not just putting absorption in the space and drying the whole thing out...is this not the case?

EPS diffusers are certainly real diffusers. Yes, scattering can be beneficial, but the problem with diffusers is it is hard to get the results they are designed for by just placing them about, and don't really serve much of a purpose IMO in a small vocal booth. Will it break up flutter echo? Yeah. Will it give you something more useable than flutter echo? Maybe. Angled walls are more beneficial for breaking up flutter & redirecting energy than diffusers. You want to use diffusers when the energy is being reflected back to listening/micing position, which requires a good bit of distance to be useful. (much more than your small 5x6' room)

The problem is that in tiny rooms, flutter echo isn't really a big deal. You can put a fake tree in there and kill half the flutter echo. What is going to likely damage your recordings is modes so high up in the frequency spectrum since the room is small, which diffusion will not at all help. You need thick, large absorption if you wish to use a tiny 5x6 booth. Your quote "I obviously don't want just absorption as the space is already small." doesn't really make sense. That is pretty much the only option for a room that small. Why do you not want absorption?

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by kasmira

Yep. If you can afford a larger air gap, I'd say go for it.



EPS diffusers are certainly real diffusers. Yes, scattering can be beneficial, but the problem with diffusers is it is hard to get the results they are designed for by just placing them about, and don't really serve much of a purpose IMO in a small vocal booth. Will it break up flutter echo? Yeah. Will it give you something more useable than flutter echo? Maybe. Angled walls are more beneficial for breaking up flutter & redirecting energy than diffusers. You want to use diffusers when the energy is being reflected back to listening/micing position, which requires a good bit of distance to be useful. (much more than your small 5x6' room)

The problem is that in tiny rooms, flutter echo isn't really a big deal. You can put a fake tree in there and kill half the flutter echo. What is going to likely damage your recordings is modes so high up in the frequency spectrum since the room is small, which diffusion will not at all help. You need thick, large absorption if you wish to use a tiny 5x6 booth. Your quote "I obviously don't want just absorption as the space is already small." doesn't really make sense. That is pretty much the only option for a room that small. Why do you not want absorption?

So if I do a 4" gap, which I believe I can afford to do, how will that help? I have a feeling I'm working with a 9' ceiling as opposed to just 8.

As for the diffusion...for example, the bench I spoke about in my first post will have a 6" thick Roxul 80 piece that I'll build under it for that corner by the ground. The other end on the ground where the singer won't be is where guitar cabs will be, so limited aside from maybe 2" panels right up against the wall. The top corners on each long end will probably have 24x48x2" if I can fit them. That should cover my bass in that little room. I'm wondering about the walls, should I not scatter at all or will the 4x12 and 2x12 cabs stacked be enough to somewhat help. I was thinking only ceiling and rear wall behind the ceiling may benefit from the 2" diffusors with side walls being all absorption.

[GIK Acoustics]

Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik

So if I do a 4" gap, which I believe I can afford to do, how will that help? I have a feeling I'm working with a 9' ceiling as opposed to just 8.

4" would be a good gap size.

Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik

As for the diffusion...for example, the bench I spoke about in my first post will have a 6" thick Roxul 80 piece that I'll build under it for that corner by the ground. The other end on the ground where the singer won't be is where guitar cabs will be, so limited aside from maybe 2" panels right up against the wall. The top corners on each long end will probably have 24x48x2" if I can fit them. That should cover my bass in that little room. I'm wondering about the walls, should I not scatter at all or will the 4x12 and 2x12 cabs stacked be enough to somewhat help. I was thinking only ceiling and rear wall behind the ceiling may benefit from the 2" diffusors with side walls being all absorption.

I'm a little lost in your explaining. Are you saying one side, up to bench height will be a thick absorber, and on the parallel wall across from that you will have 2" thick absorbtion floor to ceiling, and you'll have 2" thick corner straddling traps on 2 ceiling corners?

I really don't see that clearing up the low end in the room completely. Usually with booths, unless they are of significant size, are usually 100% absorbed down to the lower octaves of speech. There is no beneficial use of such short reflections in the room. In other words, unless you're recording in a large space with good atmosphere, there is no reason to keep bad sounding tiny room atmosphere in your recordings. The reason why completely dead is usually preferred is because reflections within a couple feet of the mic will impart themselves on the actual sound of the singers voice.

[Slikjmuzik]

You all have been very helpful, thank you very much.

Actually, I'm also hoping someone could advise as to what kind of difference or why there's a difference at all(while capturing and listening in my control room) bettwen a 2-3" gap, versus a 4" gap.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics

4" would be a good gap size.



I'm a little lost in your explaining. Are you saying one side, up to bench height will be a thick absorber, and on the parallel wall across from that you will have 2" thick absorbtion floor to ceiling, and you'll have 2" thick corner straddling traps on 2 ceiling corners?

I really don't see that clearing up the low end in the room completely. Usually with booths, unless they are of significant size, are usually 100% absorbed down to the lower octaves of speech. There is no beneficial use of such short reflections in the room. In other words, unless you're recording in a large space with good atmosphere, there is no reason to keep bad sounding tiny room atmosphere in your recordings. The reason why completely dead is usually preferred is because reflections within a couple feet of the mic will impart themselves on the actual sound of the singers voice.

Ah, point taken. I'll try to add more then and I guess I'll just put 2" panels along the walls and in the top corners I'll try to get 4" panels in there. Thank you!!