i've been taking the sketch further that i uploaded a couple of days ago.
the one with the red pen and yellow background.
it's changed a bit but i reckon i can get it to work with ideal room dimensions throughout. only thing i'm not happy with is i can't fit a lounge area in. i'm trying to tweak the lobby but no joy as yet.
building ended up being slightly narrower. approx 20'x40' and i managed to design the angled walls out of it in the live room. looks to be fully dissabled compliant also if that's the way you want to go.
the way it's shaping up. (sorry metres are my native tongue)
live room - 130m3 rectangle ; ratio 1:1.6:1.9
control room - 54m3 ; ratio 1:1.14:1.39
iso booth - 12.3m3 ; ratio 1:1.1:1.35
toilet (tiled room) - 13m3 ; ratio 1:1.28:1.54
will upload the idea once i tidy it up so another day i think. i've also got an idea with a bigger control room, pushes it up to 68m3 but kills the entry so need to try it out.
i've been taking the sketch further that i uploaded a couple of days ago.
the one with the red pen and yellow background.
it's changed a bit but i reckon i can get it to work with ideal room dimensions throughout. only thing i'm not happy with is i can't fit a lounge area in. i'm trying to tweak the lobby but no joy as yet.
building ended up being slightly narrower. approx 20'x40' and i managed to design the angled walls out of it in the live room. looks to be fully dissabled compliant also if that's the way you want to go.
the way it's shaping up. (sorry metres are my native tongue)
live room - 130m3 rectangle ; ratio 1:1.6:1.9
control room - 54m3 ; ratio 1:1.14:1.39
iso booth - 12.3m3 ; ratio 1:1.1:1.35
toilet (tiled room) - 13m3 ; ratio 1:1.28:1.54
will upload the idea once i tidy it up so another day i think. i've also got an idea with a bigger control room, pushes it up to 68m3 but kills the entry so need to try it out.
Thanks gouge,
I really don't think I need to be disabled compliant. Not to be insensitive, but again, this is not going to be a "commercial" facility. Just hoping for a very nice project studio, giving the space limitations. That said, I have already completed several local albums for singer/songwriters. This included taking it from guitar chord changes and melody, all the way through a fully produced album,...complete with live drum tracking (which were later edited and replaced with Steven Slate Drum samples, except for overheads),.. all within my tiny 15X15 bonus room. The best part is, all of the clients were very pleased with the results.
As I've stated before, I've never had the space to record an entire band at once, which is one of the things I hope to accomplish with this build. This is another reason I'm so torn between one or two iso rooms. Two iso's of course would be better for recording bands without bleed, but the trade off is obviously a smaller control room and live room.
My wife teaches orchestra for a local school district here, so I'll have connections for perhaps offering to record some string ensembles for the parents. Yet another reason I need to try and keep the live room as large as possible.
I believe we both agree that Andre has created the largest live room area. I just posted that for me, it seems the views out of Andre's control room "may" be too limited. It's hard for me to tell really, since I haven't mastered sketchup well enough, or perhaps the free version doesn't allow the type of "view from inside the control room" I need.
One thing for sure is, this 22' width limitation is killing me! lol
From a psychological point of view, I just have to keep reminding myself that I'm fortunate to at least have the opportunity to build even this small studio, and a wife that's behind my decision to do so.
Looking forward to seeing what else you've come up with.
one option for the iso rooms is to use multiple panel glass doors (sometimes called glass walls) so you can open them up for a larger single space or variations thereof.
I believe we both agree that Andre has created the largest live room area. I just posted that for me, it seems the views out of Andre's control room "may" be too limited.
Thanks again,
Marc
yeah definitely agree. andre's layout is very good. for a quick napkin sketch it's stood well against everything else which is very important.
i had to work pretty hard but think i've got a live room of similar area just different dimensions i've got the sketchup model in cad so i can do a comparisson
yeah definitely agree. andre's layout is very good. for a quick napkin sketch it's stood well against everything else which is very important.
i had to work pretty hard but think i've got a live room of similar area just different dimensions i've got the sketchup model in cad so i can do a comparisson
Can't wait to see it. I've lost count on the number of new sketchups I've started today, only to give up and trash them.
yes 3d software can really slow you down at this stage of things. it's best to use a pen and paper and just focus on the floor plans.
so i finished off the layouts suggestions. all rooms are ideal ratios and to be honest this place is up there in regards studio size.
option 1 (20'x40')
54m3 control room/133m3 studio. the elements of the building poking out are built under the overhangs which will keep your contractor happy and the cost down. part of the booth is visible sitting centre of control room while moving to the right provides more than 50% view.
option 2 (41'x20')
this one gets the bigger control room 69m3. as a result the overal length got 1 foot longer and the lounge narrower.
option 3
shows an example of squaring up the booth/entry wall if you're not into the angled walls just to show that anything goes at this stage.
option 4 was my first run at developing the red pen on yellow trace version i uploaded previously. it has the pwd. if you do decide there is some risk in not being pwd compliant (if it's a business) then the pwd layout shown here will fit into option 1 easily and option 2 at a squeeze with potential issues at studio door unless the machine cupboard moves. you do loose the seperate lounge space as it moves into the foyer area.
i did a calc of the volume on andre's sketch that we both thought had an excellent solution to the volume of the live room. it's around 140m3 give or take. the 6m3 i lost in the live room on these versions was added to the control room when you look at the volumes only.
also, if you lost the cupboard on my option a you could also have a seperate entry from the house without needing to go through the toilet. i figured this entry compromise was acceptable as it's not a main point of access to the studio but you may feel different. depends how many guests you want to take intop the studio from you're house.
thinking about it a bit more though maybee it' not a good compromise. unfortunately option 2 doesn't work with the hall unless you push the wall facing the road out another foot.
currently that end of the building is at 22' width as the wc wall is already pushing out under the eaves.
personally i'd push the wall out and get the hall and option 2 if it were me.
yes 3d software can really slow you down at this stage of things. it's best to use a pen and paper and just focus on the floor plans.
so i finished off the layouts suggestions. all rooms are ideal ratios and to be honest this place is up there in regards studio size.
option 1 (20'x40')
54m3 control room/133m3 studio. the elements of the building poking out are built under the overhangs which will keep your contractor happy and the cost down. part of the booth is visible sitting centre of control room while moving to the right provides more than 50% view.
option 2 (41'x20')
this one gets the bigger control room 69m3. as a result the overal length got 1 foot longer and the lounge narrower.
option 3
shows an example of squaring up the booth/entry wall if you're not into the angled walls just to show that anything goes at this stage.
option 4 was my first run at developing the red pen on yellow trace version i uploaded previously. it has the pwd. if you do decide there is some risk in not being pwd compliant (if it's a business) then the pwd layout shown here will fit into option 1 easily and option 2 at a squeeze with potential issues at studio door unless the machine cupboard moves. you do loose the seperate lounge space as it moves into the foyer area.
i did a calc of the volume on andre's sketch that we both thought had an excellent solution to the volume of the live room. it's around 140m3 give or take. the 6m3 i lost in the live room on these versions was added to the control room when you look at the volumes only.
also, if you lost the cupboard on my option a you could also have a seperate entry from the house without needing to go through the toilet. i figured this entry compromise was acceptable as it's not a main point of access to the studio but you may feel different. depends how many guests you want to take intop the studio from you're house.
thinking about it a bit more though maybee it' not a good compromise. unfortunately option 2 doesn't work with the hall unless you push the wall facing the road out another foot.
currently that end of the building is at 22' width as the wc wall is already pushing out under the eaves.
personally i'd push the wall out and get the hall and option 2 if it were me.
Hello gouge,
Thanks for putting in the time!
After looking over your plans, and the rooms that you have "poking out" from the main footprint,... it got me thinking.
I went outside today to take a real close look to see if there's any yard real estate I could use to my advantage,.. and low and behold, I came up with this.
I also used some string and stakes and being as meticulous as possible, was able to squeeze and additional foot of width, and a foot of length, for a total main footprint of 41'X23'. It's not 100% accurate, as I didn't have any T-squares, etc., to make sure my lines were plum,.. but hopefully it's close.
You'll notice that the "iso 2" has been added to the left, off of the main footprint. I never even thought of it before, but it makes perfect sense now after going over everyone's ideas on here. I have a landscaped island in the back yard, and the tree you see is part of that,.. so I thought, why not create kind of a "nook" that surrounds the island,.. which wound up being the 2nd iso.
I think it works beautifully with all of my landscaping in the back. I plan on picking up some yard flags so I can take a picture of the footprint and how it relates to my yard, so I can show you guys what I'm talking about.
At any rate, as you can see I still have 2 iso's, with the first one still doubling as an air lock/entrance/lounge area.
From the control room I'll still be looking at the bathroom door off to the left, which I really don't have a problem with, as again, I really need the half bath to be there.
The only ratio I used was for the control room, which was 1.00X1.28X1.54, and was based off of 10' ceilings, so I'm not sure if the iso's and live room are suitable as far as ratios go.
I really do like the idea of 11' ceilings, but doing a quick calculation using the same ratios, that would put the control room at a little over 14' wide, which would likely make the entrance too narrow.
I'm thinking that perhaps I should use some angles on the front of the control room, which would enable me to maybe put some closet space in,.. still working that part out.
Crap!, .. just noticed that I don't have an entrance to iso 2 from the live room. Clients would have to enter the iso from the control room. Not sure how I feel about that.
1. your live room is built against your house. (potential isolation issues)
2. the position of the control room shuts down the view of the field
3. access to toilet is via live room
i'd say not as good as it can as the muso in the iso needs to feel like they are in with the rest of the band if you are doing a session with a band.
Well damn, you are correct sir. I never considered that. I was just happy that I could add an iso without chewing up valuable floor space inside the (now) 23' width footprint.
Surely there is a way to utilize the additional space (the iso 2 area in my jpeg).
you could rotate the control room 90 degrees and push it out under the overhang 2-3 foot.
then put the iso between the control room and the live room so you look through the iso into the control room.
i'll flick you a sketch.
your live room should als start to take on a more rectangular shape to suit the room ideals so you may find you get a little shorter in overall length.
you could rotate the control room 90 degrees and push it out under the overhang 2-3 foot.
then put the iso between the control room and the live room so you look through the iso into the control room.
i'll flick you a sketch.
your live room should als start to take on a more rectangular shape to suit the room ideals so you may find you get a little shorter in overall length.
Thanks. By the way...I do like your ideas on the last few floor plans, however, I really cant have anything jutting out past the right side of the 23' width. My wife is already not that happy about losing half the view from the kitchen window, ... if there's anything else beyond the right side wall, it would totally block the view.
i guess i had pickep on that. which is why i kept asking about boundries etc. the reason why i showed the entry folding back like i did was to minimise that interuption and also to encourage some thinking outside the box with regards to the envelope.
so, can i humbly make a suggestion. which is. push the studio down the sheet so that you still have a line of site to the woods from the kitchen but you miss the tree near the iso room on your current layout.
that would mean the new building doesn't qhite line up with the end of your new dining room.
this is the option 2 with a more appropriate access from your existing. named option 2a now. to me it works quite well considering the constraints. but that doesn't mean it's the best option for you.
with regards the trees etc. best way forward is to measure the external walls of your house so it's known for sure. then triangluate the trees from the corners of the house and locate the kitchen window.
then review the designs and see where it falls.
if for eg if this option hits the tree where the iso steps out, then you could maybe flip the iso so its at the end of the building like on your sketch uploaded today.
the entry could also most likely be made narrower to buy you back another foot.
i guess i had pickep on that. which is why i kept asking about boundries etc. the reason why i showed the entry folding back like i did was to minimise that interuption and also to encourage some thinking outside the box with regards to the envelope.
so, can i humbly make a suggestion. which is. push the studio down the sheet so that you still have a line of site to the woods from the kitchen but you miss the tree near the iso room on your current layout.
that would mean the new building doesn't qhite line up with the end of your new dining room.
I had considered that already, but at this point, I'm really trying to gain as much width as possible. It's not a perfect situation, but I've already discussed this with my wife, and she's cool with the left view being blocked, as long as I promise to landscape that line of vision, with perhaps another fountain or something.
I can't quite figure out what you meant by, "rotate the control room 90 degrees." I'm open to all suggestions. I feel like I'm getting closer, it just isn't quite right yet. Maybe I'm fooling myself, as there's truly only so much one can do with that small footprint.
I'm still trying to figure out the perfect floor plan for now!, yet I also realize that the perfect one (given the dimensions) has likely already been presented.
Are you sure it's possible to use the entryway/lounge as an iso room? Where do guests sit?
You really should provide details of the acoustic situation in your area. How much shell isolation is actually required?
Also, where do you connect plumbing? To have the lounge and bathroom together on an isolated slab is really the best option. If this area is across the studio, how do you plan on piping?
So far, any rough idea I have for your layout requires the full 22' for the tracking room. Passing boundaries to have to use the bathroom is obviously hasslesome.
How do you expect clients to arrive? Is an entryway the door to your house?
here's a version of your latest with the control room rotated. option 5 interesting if you look back at post 183 i did a version like this. but i kept going as i wasn't convinced having the halfbath off the live room was necessarily the best outcome.
i agree with mr trolls above. you'll probably want a sink in your lounge to make coffee.
i also took option 2a and overlaid it on your latest with the trees etc in play. the dashed line indicates the extents of building on your latest sketch. i also reduced the entry width slightly. it's an interesting overlay when you look at the size difference.
Are you sure it's possible to use the entryway/lounge as an iso room? Where do guests sit?
This is not a commercial facility, thus it isn't as important to have a lounge. What I(we) were trying to accomplish was an entrance/air lock, that could also be a small lounge. Just a couple of chairs, etc., nothing fancy at all, IF at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls
You really should provide details of the acoustic situation in your area. How much shell isolation is actually required?
This was covered early on in this thread. The only real isolation problem would be from harley davidson motorcycles that sometimes drive by, as well as the occasional truck. The road is approx. 35 yards in front of house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls
Also, where do you connect plumbing?
To have the lounge and bathroom together on an isolated slab is really the best option. If this area is across the studio, how do you plan on piping?
That's just it. I really need the half bath to be next to the house, so it can double as a half bath for my home. I agree it would work better included in the entrance/iso area, but I also don't want the entrance next to my home either, so I'm trying to make the best out of what I have to work with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls
How do you expect clients to arrive? Is an entryway the door to your house?
Clients will be parking in my driveway. I plan on putting a paver path off of the driveway leading to the front entrance. There's enough room that if I wanted to, I could also extend the drive off of my drive, right up to the entrance area.
here's a version of your latest with the control room rotated. option 5 interesting if you look back at post 183 i did a version like this. but i kept going as i wasn't convinced having the halfbath off the live room was necessarily the best outcome.
i agree with mr trolls above. you'll probably want a sink in your lounge to make coffee.
i also took option 2a and overlaid it on your latest with the trees etc in play. the dashed line indicates the extents of building on your latest sketch. i also reduced the entry width slightly. it's an interesting overlay when you look at the size difference.
I agree that a sink would be nice in the iso/lounge, but again, I just cannot have the entrance against the house, which is where the closest plumbing tie in is. I really can't find a solution unless I simply opt for the added cost of plumbing away from the house, as you suggest. This would of course mean the builder will have to use extra equipment/materials just to get the plumbing to the septic.
I'm really starting to think that I'm trying to cram to much into such a small space. After all, I'm just trying to create a very nice project recording space,.. NOT a full time facility,... although, never say never I guess.
Well, as usual gotta get to work,.. I'll check in later.
there are always options and sometimes those options include redefining the criteria.
Hi Marc,
what are the options? how far from the house would you feel comfortable with.
2 obvious options seem to be.
put the entry control room on the left end of the building and split the lounge from the wc which also blocks the views from the tracking room.
put the entry in the middle of the building, enable the lounge/wc connection and open up views of the woods.
try option c and go for something different again
in an effort to move the entry further from your existing house. it is possible to just move the entry doors further towards the woods creating an entry hall or create a green colonade from the entry towards the woods. this would screen the building to keep the kitchen view green and also force visitors to enter at the far end of the building.
the entry point doesn't necessarily start where the front door is. already people will be using the driveway which puts them at the house most likely.
As Andre and gouge have suggested, I've re worked my plan, trying to make sure I'm following my defined criteria.
None of the measurements were planned. I was just coming up with the basic plan from a visual point of view.
I obviously am using Andre's control room model, albeit a little larger. I'm not sure how to calculate the ratio for the control room, with the triangle in the back. I would really appreciate it if someone could help with that. Andre?
My builder is concerned about the 11' ceilings using block. He thinks that may be approaching a whole other level of structural integrity issues, which of course could mean more costs, so I'd like to be able to calculate the control room with both 10' AND 11' ceilings, just to have a choice. Again, just don't know how to account for the triangle area in the back.
The half bath door/entrance from the house, is now on the back wall of iso 2, so the view from the control room will no longer be looking at said door.
By using the additional yard real estate to the left, the control room, again, while basically the same design as Andre's, now has a broader view,.. in fact it looks as though I'll be able to see the entire live room.
I also made sure that both iso's have a view of each other, as well as a view into the live room.
I'm just not/can't be concerned about having plumbing at the entrance/iso. It would be too expensive and I just don't think it's necessary. If needed, I could place one of those small portable water cooler's in the corner.
So I think I've met all of my needs with this design, taking everyone's ideas into account.
Am I missing something,.. is there more inherent flaws I'm missing?
As I tried working with the addtional foot of width, the LSP 10 evolved. The changes being the splayed walls for the monitors are removed and the control room are splayed now. Then, looking at the new width and your desire for better lines of sight precipitated LSP 11.
I think it meets all your needs and constraints. The control room is still based on the 1:1.1:1.35 ratio, but with 10' as the height. There are good sight lines from the control into both iso booths. Secondarily, the iso booth/ sound lock is large to be used as an impromptu lounge. There is "shrinkablity if required due to budget restraints in the lenght of the main room and reconfiguring the msin iso booth. Not on the JPGs, the control room has a 2'x1.5' "commode" built into the bottom of back wall. Above it would be full range absorbers and diffusers.
__________________ Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction.
As I tried working with the addtional foot of width, the LSP 10 evolved. The changes being the splayed walls for the monitors are removed and the control room are splayed now. Then, looking at the new width and your desire for better lines of sight precipitated LSP 11. I think it meets all your needs and constraints. Not on the JPGs, the control room has a 2'x1.5' "commode" built into the bottom of back wall. Above it would be full range absorbers and diffusers.
Sorry Andre if I'm being a little "dense" this morning. I assume the control room is the one with the small grey circle inside(mix position), correct?, with the room with angled walls being another iso?
If so, I believe I would have to reverse the position of the two side by side rooms. I need the entrance to be on the wall facing the street, as there is already not much room left on the far end of the structure. In reversing the two rooms, and moving the entrance door, I would then still have an air lock/entrance. Hope that makes sense. Also, I'm finding it hard to imagine a "commode" in the back of the control room. Here we refer to a "commode" as the same thing as a toilet. That's not what you mean, is it?
I realize you weren't aware ( I don't think) of my discovery to now use a little more yard real estate on the far left end of my footprint. Please check out my last plan, as I believe I'm now utilizing that space to it's fullest potential. I respect your opinion and I'd like to know how my "designing" skills are coming along.
Sorry Andre if I'm being a little "dense" this morning. I assume the control room is the one with the small grey circle inside(mix position), correct?, with the room with angled walls being another iso?
If so, I believe I would have to reverse the position of the two side by side rooms. I need the entrance to be on the wall facing the street, as there is already not much room left on the far end of the structure. In reversing the two rooms, and moving the entrance door, I would then still have an air lock/entrance. Hope that makes sense. Also, I'm finding it hard to imagine a "commode" in the back of the control room. Here we refer to a "commode" as the same thing as a toilet. That's not what you mean, is it?
I realize you weren't aware ( I don't think) of my discovery to now use a little more yard real estate on the far left end of my footprint. Please check out my last plan, as I believe I'm now utilizing that space to it's fullest potential. I respect your opinion and I'd like to know how my "designing" skills are coming along.
Thanks,
Marc
When comparing your last one with my last one side by side, it seems to me that they are very similar. Control room beside entrance/iso, and another iso on the other end.
The main difference lies in my using the additional yard real estate at the back/left end of foot print. Is it just me, or does it make sense to use that space if I can?
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