help me design a 20' X 50' studio

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

Flip the layout so that the sound lock/second iso booth and control room against the house. The toilet is then accesed through the sound lock. This may also obviate the need for double doors to the toilet.

Andre

Oh, think I get it now. So the toilet will still be against the house, but now the door from the house will be entering into the soundlock like this?

If so, wouldn't that mean that the smaller iso/soundlock will now have to have 3 doors,.. one from the house, one to enter from the live room, and one for me to access the control room,.. although I guess I could not have the third door, and could just walk around and enter through the other iso.

If this is so, I kind of have a problem with the entrance/soundlock being up next to the house. Even though it's only 40' away, I do prefer having clients enter from the far end (as in the last floorplan). I just like keeping them away from my house as much as possible. Once there inside, it doesn't matter.

Or, I'm confused.

Marc

[gouge]

that was pretty much it.

if you are not kee non the entry location then best bet is to try and get the washroom into the airlock on your preferred layout.

[gouge]

some more options to look at. first one being the layout currently moving forward with some tweaks being the wc/lobby circulation and a cupboard.

the second one is a more cost effective version with slightly bigger control room volume. iso room intended to have glass sliding doors seperating it from the studio. leaving those open gives you some bonus space when tracking individuals or groups live making the studio bigger than current version also.

second version also achieves better view corridors.

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gouge

some more options to look at. first one being the layout currently moving forward with some tweaks being the wc/lobby circulation and a cupboard.

the second one is a more cost effective version with slightly bigger control room volume. iso room intended to have glass sliding doors seperating it from the studio. leaving those open gives you some bonus space when tracking individuals or groups live making the studio bigger than current version also.

second version also achieves better view corridors.

Interesting additions for sure... thanks!

It seems the half bath is still the issue here though. If I'm understanding you correctly, it looks like the entrance/half bath, etc., are at the farthest end away from the house tie in.

I'd like to keep it next to the house if at all possible, for two reasons. That way, my family and guests will have a centrally located toilet to use, as well as the studio.

Secondly, if it stays next to the house, my builder thinks he can tie into the plumbing under the kitchen sink area, in order to send to the septic system. If the half bath is at the far end of the structure, then he will likely have to add additional materials (pumps, etc.) in order to send to the septic,.. which of course translates into more money.

Also, there's a space between the house tie in that is pretty much just empty space, if not utilized properly. This is created due to the fact that we are also adding a dining room, which will be converted from a small outside deck. The builder has to add approx. 3' to the width, thus creating the "gap" between where the rest of the studio structure starts. This is where Andre came up with the idea of putting the half bath, instead of using the limited studio footprint. I had originally thought that would make a good space for storage, computer, etc.,.. but the half bath makes more sense at this point.

Thanks,
Marc

[gullfo]

- never mind - postings crossed in transit - i agree, keep the bath next to the house.

[avare]

Originally Posted by andrebrito

I am not going to post a design but I will suggest alternative dimensions for the control room... values are in meters

Height Width Length

3.6 ... 5.11 ... 6.01
3.6 ... 5.58 ... 6.77

Here are plans showing how the rooms fit into the space available. I used 12" (300 mm) as the nominal thickness of the walls. As you can see, the 20' width of the space causes significant difficulties in layout.

Andre too,
Andre

[avare]

Looking over the posts since yesterday, there are great things happening here. Several options and ideas being presented. Do not worry too much abut cost yet. That will become paramount when having to take the designs from ideas to reality.

A point about one of the constraints that I used for the designs I have presented. That is ease of some cost reduction. The length of the overall studio can be easily reduced in the main studio without affecting the layout of the rest of studio.

Impressed,
Andre

[gouge]

@lsp that's fair enough. i uderstand where you are coming from.

can i just make a point though. if it is critical to keep the half bath near the house. and i understand your constraints and agree with the builder and yourself re cost of plumbing. i would suggest once more putting the entrance down near that space.

i know that's not your preferred location but we need to be carefull the tail is not wagging the dog. there are many ways to deal with privacy. access points etc. solutions to access, building envelope etc may appear more clearly when looking at the master plan of the site, property boundaries, house location/spaces, view coridors etc.

what we are currently doing is desinging a studio in isolation. it's really just a fitout. there are no windows for example when there should be. to do the design justice the bigger picture needs to be known so some masterplanning can take place.

it still concerns me i guess that we have not addressed the bigger picture of the siting of the new building and the relationship of it's surrounds. things like is the block flat? where is the raod exactly and the property boundaries. are there any views.

getting back to the washroom/entry. i did a dissabled access version. although it's a moot point due to the washroom location being wrong i attached it. (or i thought i did, but apparently i didn't)

i then tweaked it again. but that raises an interesting point. you need to cater for people with dissabilites i would think.

the version attached has a bigger control room and is not the pwd version.

[gouge]

so far andre i kinda feel your liveroom has the edge. you've managed to get a fair bit in there and still keep a dimension of more than 8m for the low frequencies. i thought it also possible to shrink your layout down by 1m or 3foot in the over the pond speak. maing it 36foot long?

taking it from 9.5m to 8.5m or something similar.

Originally Posted by avare

Looking over the posts since yesterday, there are great things happening here. Several options and ideas being presented. Do not worry too much abut cost yet. That will become paramount when having to take the designs from ideas to reality.

A point about one of the constraints that I used for the designs I have presented. That is ease of some cost reduction. The length of the overall studio can be easily reduced in the main studio without affecting the layout of the rest of studio.

Impressed,
Andre

[gouge]

Originally Posted by avare

Here are plans showing how the rooms fit into the space available. I used 12" (300 mm) as the nominal thickness of the walls. As you can see, the 20' width of the space causes significant difficulties in layout.

Andre too,
Andre

yeah, last version i posted i started exploring larger control rooms. I think it's worthwhile for sure.

3m width on the original is pretty narrow when it comes to analogue desk requirements.

what would be your thoughts on turning the controll room setup 90degrees so the desk faces the long side? is there a minimum distance behind the user that is prefereed. i didd some calcs once and had it at an absolute minimum of 4m needed.

[avare]

Originally Posted by gouge

yeah, last version i posted i started exploring larger control rooms. I think it's worthwhile for sure.

3m width on the original is pretty narrow when it comes to analogue desk requirements.

As you have come to realize, if you did not right from the beginning, the width constraint is making the layout a challenge. I used 1:1.1:1.35 as the ratios, as it the closest to cube, keepng the width minimal and still in Cox's list of second best ratios and approaching on of two nexuses on Eric Desart's room ratio graph. Agreed that 3m is about the smallest that the control room can be.

As far as the mixer goes, we do not know what Marc is planning. Marc?

Andre

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

As you have come to realize, if you did not right from the beginning, the width constraint is making the layout a challenge. I used 1:1.1:1.35 as the ratios, as it the closest to cube, keepng the width minimal and still in Cox's list of second best ratios and approaching on of two nexuses on Eric Desart's room ratio graph. Agreed that 3m is about the smallest that the control room can be.

As far as the mixer goes, we do not know what Marc is planning. Marc?

Andre

I don't currently own a console,...I just use an MR816 interface, a cc121 controller, with a decent amount of nice analog gear. I have considered a console though,..maybe a more affordable one like the Allen Heath GS-R24, as I will need to increase my input count. I'll likely just get another 816 for now though, as I know there will be plenty of extra expense once this thing gets built,...i.e., additional acoustical treatments, additional headphones, more mics, etc.

I'm only partially kidding when I say that I don't know if I'll ever be able to decide on a floorplan. I like yours a lot for sure, but also Glenns. And now there's others to consider. Hell, I even still like the last one I came up with. A bit overwhelmed for sure.

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gouge

@lsp that's fair enough. i uderstand where you are coming from.

can i just make a point though. if it is critical to keep the half bath near the house. and i understand your constraints and agree with the builder and yourself re cost of plumbing. i would suggest once more putting the entrance down near that space.

i know that's not your preferred location but we need to be carefull the tail is not wagging the dog. there are many ways to deal with privacy. access points etc. solutions to access, building envelope etc may appear more clearly when looking at the master plan of the site, property boundaries, house location/spaces, view coridors etc.

what we are currently doing is desinging a studio in isolation. it's really just a fitout. there are no windows for example when there should be. to do the design justice the bigger picture needs to be known so some masterplanning can take place.

it still concerns me i guess that we have not addressed the bigger picture of the siting of the new building and the relationship of it's surrounds. things like is the block flat? where is the raod exactly and the property boundaries. are there any views.

getting back to the washroom/entry. i did a dissabled access version. although it's a moot point due to the washroom location being wrong i attached it. (or i thought i did, but apparently i didn't)

i then tweaked it again. but that raises an interesting point. you need to cater for people with dissabilites i would think.

the version attached has a bigger control room and is not the pwd version.

Here's a floor plan I can up with a while back. It's very similar to yours it seems. I've added some additional text so you can get an idea of the surroundings, including the road front.

The lot is flat, by the way. The back yard is nicely landscaped, complete with a water feature. You had mentioned needing windows in the studio. If one was added in the live room facing the back yard, I'm not so sure one could see much of the back yard, as there is a tree between where the studio will be and the patio/water feature, etc. Moreover, I'm also not sure I want strangers checking out my back yard anyway, that's like my private sanctuary.

It also wouldn't make sense to me to have a window facing the road. Don't know really how I feel about adding windows. I've never really thought of that.

Thanks again for your input!

Marc

[gouge]

i sit in the windows are good camp. if you keep them at a higher level it lets in the light and frames some of the sky but gives you privacy.

for my mind the sketch attached achieves a lot of the goals. it does require a rethink of the briefs 22' width as i poked the entry out slightly.

it achieves,

1. central circulation
2. entry statement point of address
3. private entry away from the house. (approach is along the length of the studio wall and the entry itself shields the existing house)
4. 8m length to tracking room
5. the width of the addition off your existing is still 22foot
6. pwd compliance with some minor tweaks.

you can also fit a very small sink/kitchenette into this.

this is very rough, not accurate and not someting i would ever put in front of a client, it is an idea, it's one of pages of sketches working through space relationships. it could be taken further, maybe rotate the control room maybe not. etc.

[gouge]

this is why your project needs masterplanning before acoustic design.

all of the items you note below need thought early on. site planning for eg.

Originally Posted by LSP

Here's a floor plan I can up with a while back. It's very similar to yours it seems. I've added some additional text so you can get an idea of the surroundings, including the road front.

The lot is flat, by the way. The back yard is nicely landscaped, complete with a water feature. You had mentioned needing windows in the studio. If one was added in the live room facing the back yard, I'm not so sure one could see much of the back yard, as there is a tree between where the studio will be and the patio/water feature, etc. Moreover, I'm also not sure I want strangers checking out my back yard anyway, that's like my private sanctuary.

It also wouldn't make sense to me to have a window facing the road. Don't know really how I feel about adding windows. I've never really thought of that.

Thanks again for your input!

Marc

[gouge]

another couple of items that need consideration with regards to windows are that a habitable space in a residential building usually requires percentages of natural light and ventiation to comply.

also probably wise to consider resale value. what impact will a 40 foot long by 22 foot wide by 12 foot high concrete block structure without windows/articulation look like attached to your house? i know it's early days though, just putting it out there s these things can be easily resolved.

[gouge]

hey lsp,

i missed the info in your image when i first looked at your post. i'll do a concept. it's just line on paper at the end of the day.

is your currnt house 2 storey? would a 2 storey studio work? i haven't even looed that option but it does result in a smaller footprint and excetional height in the live room.

initial thoughts are solid wall facing the road and garden, windows in live room facing woods. low ceiling over lobby/wc.

Originally Posted by LSP

Here's a floor plan I can up with a while back. It's very similar to yours it seems. I've added some additional text so you can get an idea of the surroundings, including the road front.

The lot is flat, by the way. The back yard is nicely landscaped, complete with a water feature. You had mentioned needing windows in the studio. If one was added in the live room facing the back yard, I'm not so sure one could see much of the back yard, as there is a tree between where the studio will be and the patio/water feature, etc. Moreover, I'm also not sure I want strangers checking out my back yard anyway, that's like my private sanctuary.

It also wouldn't make sense to me to have a window facing the road. Don't know really how I feel about adding windows. I've never really thought of that.

Thanks again for your input!

Marc

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gouge

i sit in the windows are good camp. if you keep them at a higher level it lets in the light and frames some of the sky but gives you privacy.

for my mind the sketch attached achieves a lot of the goals. it does require a rethink of the briefs 22' width as i poked the entry out slightly.

it achieves,

1. central circulation
2. entry statement point of address
3. private entry away from the house. (approach is along the length of the studio wall and the entry itself shields the existing house)
4. 8m length to tracking room
5. the width of the addition off your existing is still 22foot
6. pwd compliance with some minor tweaks.

you can also fit a very small sink/kitchenette into this.

this is very rough, not accurate and not someting i would ever put in front of a client, it is an idea, it's one of pages of sketches working through space relationships. it could be taken further, maybe rotate the control room maybe not. etc.

Thanks again gouge!

It's kind of difficult to "visualize" the total concept you have in mind though. It does look like it could definitely be another functional floor plan. I'll print this out and go over it at work today.

Marc

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gouge

hey lsp,

i missed the info in your image when i first looked at your post. i'll do a concept. it's just line on paper at the end of the day.

is your currnt house 2 storey? would a 2 storey studio work? i haven't even looed that option but it does result in a smaller footprint and excetional height in the live room.

initial thoughts are solid wall facing the road and garden, windows in live room facing woods. low ceiling over lobby/wc.

My house is a 2 story. I've never considered a 2 story studio. Wouldn't that simply increase my cost(s), due to the fact that I would then have to build the second story floors, complete with added mass, etc.?, along with stairs?

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gouge

another couple of items that need consideration with regards to windows are that a habitable space in a residential building usually requires percentages of natural light and ventiation to comply.

also probably wise to consider resale value. what impact will a 40 foot long by 22 foot wide by 12 foot high concrete block structure without windows/articulation look like attached to your house? i know it's early days though, just putting it out there s these things can be easily resolved.

I agree, the resale value has entered my mind numerous time. I plan on retiring here, but you never know,...I may have to, or want to sell in the future.

From the road, I would think the addition would look like a large garage addition. My builder never mentioned windows being part of "code", I'll have to ask him about that.

Again, I'm not opposed to windows at all as far as what they would add to the "ambiance", etc. It's just that I also realize with with windows comes a decrease in TL, along with the extra costs involved.

I've only been in a couple of commercial studios, and I don't recall there being any windows, ... maybe I'm wrong though.

Marc

[gullfo]

i like the idea of windows as well as gouge's idea on adding depth to the building so it's not a bland looking box. however to do that properly may push your budget as would a second story...

[gouge]

i agree with yourself and gullfo that 2 storeys is likely more expensive and probably not within budget.

but it needs consideration to satisfy exploring options. it MAY be possible to reduce the footprint enough that the costs even up. it may not. your contractors involvment is important in keepin an eye on the costs.

scale wise it may suit your existing house, (maybe)

it has some advantages. the live room gets a very high ceiling as it becomes a double height space. but 2 storey of scaffold costs more also. the connection with the existing upstairs area would need to be looked at.

down side is you need stairs. if you plan on retiring there you may not want to walk up stairs ever day.

the usual setup would be live room and iso on ground floor, control room on top floor. or vice cersa with control room and live room on ground floor and iso upstairs.

i guess this whole process gets drawn out on a forum as usually multiple ideas would be tested on yellow trace which is very quick and that process gets slowed down online.

what is happening though is very slowly the brief is being tested by everyone drawing up their ideas and this will result in a strong brief with an appropriate supporting design. once the relationships of the spaces are sorted then the acoustics of the shell sizes and treatment needs to be locked in. obviously that process will see the design refined further and things will change again slightly.

[gouge]

Originally Posted by gullfo

i like the idea of windows as well as gouge's idea on adding depth to the building so it's not a bland looking box. however to do that properly may push your budget as would a second story...

that depth is needed for sure not only because it articulates the elevation but it relieves some of the pinch point issues we've all been having. but it's not real depth but more just the facade being peeled back to provide and entry point.

the new projection wouldn't need to be as high as the studio rooms, think of it as a pod jutting out. that leaves the main wall line to continue above and keep the roof simple.

i also like the idea of the lobby area having a lower ceiling height. it provides compression and release and strikes a contrast between the spaces.

[gouge]

i hate laptops. the cursur jumps all over the place while i'm typing and my hand goes near the touch pad..

adds in letters, removes letters, jumps to random spots as i'm typing.......

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by gouge

i hate laptops. the cursur jumps all over the place while i'm typing and my hand goes near the touch pad..

adds in letters, removes letters, jumps to random spots as i'm typing.......

If you're like me and hate the trackpad and opt for a mouse instead with a laptop, there's a setting you should use [Win7]:
It disables the trackpad whenever a mouse is connected, and re-enables the trackpad whenever there's no mouse.
Go into the 'mouse' settings (type 'mouse' or go to Control Panel>Mouse)
Click the "Device Settings" tab, and check the box "Disable internal pointing device when external USB pointing device is attached. Hit 'Apply' and 'Ok'.

Never get messed by the trackpad again! (but keeps it available for when a mouse isn't plugged in)

[gouge]

Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh

If you're like me and hate the trackpad and opt for a mouse instead with a laptop, there's a setting you should use [Win7]:
It disables the trackpad whenever a mouse is connected, and re-enables the trackpad whenever there's no mouse.
Go into the 'mouse' settings (type 'mouse' or go to Control Panel>Mouse)
Click the "Device Settings" tab, and check the box "Disable internal pointing device when external USB pointing device is attached. Hit 'Apply' and 'Ok'.

Never get messed by the trackpad again! (but keeps it available for when a mouse isn't plugged in)

excellent, thank you

[gullfo]

here's a view with windows. except for places like the CR back wall, windows can be a fine addition for a studio especially if you have a view (and artists who are working in your studio when the view is lit enough to see it )

the key for isolation is maintaining consistency with the wall mass along with proper seals and avoiding significant resonances. then there are considerations for lighting impact, impact on heating/cooling efficiency etc. which are normal for any room design with windows.

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

I'm only partially kidding when I say that I don't know if I'll ever be able to decide on a floorplan. I like yours a lot for sure, but also Glenns. And now there's others to consider. Hell, I even still like the last one I came up with. A bit overwhelmed for sure.

You have ideas. Look at each and decide what you like and do not like of each of them. Write this down. Wriitng it downs helps clarify the significant features. Poet the results here. Take the best of the designs and ideas and construct the best studio for you and your budget.

Did I mention that aspirin is cheaper by the case?

Economically medicated,
Andre

[avare]

Congratulations Marc. You now have over 6,000 views of your thread!

Andre

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

You have ideas. Look at each and decide what you like and do not like of each of them. Write this down. Wriitng it downs helps clarify the significant features. Poet the results here. Take the best of the designs and ideas and construct the best studio for you and your budget.

Did I mention that aspirin is cheaper by the case?

Economically medicated,
Andre

I just placed an order for a case of aspirin!

6000 views,.. wow! I'm blown away at all the advice I've received on here. A big thanks to everyone who has contributed.

OK, back to my trying to decide on a floorplan. Andre, I tried as best as I could figure out how, to pan the views from inside the control room. The only way I could do it was by using the "section plane" tool and removing the back walls so I could try to "sit" at the control sweet spot.

Using this method, it seems that my field of view looking forward is very limited. Looking through the right side glass is much better, but all in all I'm just not sure I'd be happy with the front view as it seems as if I will be looking directly at a wall. Again, I'm sure my method of checking views isn't totally accurate, due to my not being able to fully figure out a way within sketchup to do this (yet).

I'm still experimenting though, trying to keep certain elements you've presented here. I'm sure you've been able to "walk through" you're design Andre,... when sitting at the mix position, due to still feel like the field of view is adequate?

I can only speak for myself, but I usually wind up having to "coach" a lot my clients via hand signals and eye contact. I'm just trying to make sure I'll still be able to view most, if not all of the live room area.

Pass me an aspirin please!
Marc