help me design a 20' X 50' studio

[LSP]

Thanks Glenn and Andre! The illustrations really help me,..and Andre that floor plan is outstanding. I had thought that a control room with a "corner" behind mix position would be problematic as far as bass frequencies go,...so I'll assume I will have to trap the heck out of that space. I couldn't for the life of me come up with a suitable floor plan,..thanks again!

I do plan on getting Rod's book.

Marc

[gullfo]

i think it's important to consider if your 1000ft2 has to be 20x50 or could be more square (like 30x33) because then you could change the shapes and positions of rooms more readily.

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

Thanks Glenn and Andre! The illustrations really help me,..and Andre that floor plan is outstanding. I had thought that a control room with a "corner" behind mix position would be problematic as far as bass frequencies go,...so I'll assume I will have to trap the heck out of that space. I couldn't for the life of me come up with a suitable floor plan,..thanks again!

I do plan on getting Rod's book.

You are welcome. Do not forget Sketchup. You have seen what Glenn and have done quickly with it.

Andre

[OralnHardly]

Check Glenn's Drawing...see the hallway idea...that is what I was getting at way back...only I would make the entrance right into the Live room (first room to the left)...more volume with the hallway starting where the control room might be...still more volume with a nice long hallway space for micing or other

You really could have something nice going with this two guys advising you!

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gullfo

i think it's important to consider if your 1000ft2 has to be 20x50 or could be more square (like 30x33) because then you could change the shapes and positions of rooms more readily.

I'll have to go out and measure precisely how much space I have to build on. There's only one area the builder can build off of my house, and I believe I recall he measured the width to be around 20'. Hopefully I'm wrong and I'll have the 30 or so you mentioned.

I'm going to check out "sketchup" and see if I can post a drawing of the square footage I'll have to build on.


Thanks again guys!

[LSP]

Well, I was correct,... I only have 20' to work with for my width. I did download sketchup, but don't know if I'll have the extra time to master it enough to present any ideas on here.

I was able to draw an accurate 20'X50' rectangle and it sure puts things into perspective. It didn't dawn on me even after viewing Glenn's illustration that those dimensions to me now seem VERY limited as to what I can do as far as a floor plan goes. It's just too narrow it seems to do much of anything. It looks like I can make a decent control room, but what else? I've been trying to noodle something out on paper but can't come up with anything other than maybe just a control room and a live room, with a half bath in a corner. I guess I could still frame in an iso room in another corner.

Granted, it's WAY better than the 15X15 bonus room I'm currently stuck in.

I suppose I'm more than disappointed after seeing the floor plan already presented here, only to realize now that again, 20' wide is limiting me big time.

I'll keep trying to figure out sketchup an post some ideas if possible.

I'd sure welcome any other ideas now that I know my actual dimension limits.

Thanks

Marc

[gullfo]

one option is to re-arrange access routes. depending on your requirements for egress, etc you may be able to reduce the hallway spaces and turn the CR width wise and look out sideways to the LR and isolation rooms. then a small hall joining all rooms except the one isolation room in the lower right corner (of my drawing) would be directly on the shorter hall and your CR would be larger. for egress in the one booth without hallway access, put in windows which can serve that, or use that room as an air lock for loading doors for the LR.

but yea, the building will be long and narrow (relatively) and you'll get a good 850ft2 of real studio space out of it so that's nothing to complain about :-)

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

I did download sketchup, but don't know if I'll have the extra time to master it enough to present any ideas on here.

Did you work through the tutorials? Drawings are the language of arhitecture. What extra time? Will that time take away from your living with a studio with design mistakes? Go back and master my signature line.

Andre

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

I was able to draw an accurate 20'X50' rectangle and it sure puts things into perspective. It didn't dawn on me even after viewing Glenn's illustration that those dimensions to me now seem VERY limited as to what I can do as far as a floor plan goes. It's just too narrow it seems to do much of anything. It looks like I can make a decent control room, but what else? I've been trying to noodle something out on paper but can't come up with anything other than maybe just a control room and a live room, with a half bath in a corner. I guess I could still frame in an iso room in another corner.

Granted, it's WAY better than the 15X15 bonus room I'm currently stuck in.

I suppose I'm more than disappointed after seeing the floor plan already presented here, only to realize now that again, 20' wide is limiting me big time.

How important is the 15' width of the control roorm?
You added a half bath. What else do you want in the building?
Is the entire 20'x50' (external) for studio?

My drawing had the smaller iso booth double as the sound lock. Creative thinking can do wonders.

Keep asking and answering questions!

Andre

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gullfo

one option is to re-arrange access routes. depending on your requirements for egress, etc you may be able to reduce the hallway spaces and turn the CR width wise and look out sideways to the LR and isolation rooms. then a small hall joining all rooms except the one isolation room in the lower right corner (of my drawing) would be directly on the shorter hall and your CR would be larger. for egress in the one booth without hallway access, put in windows which can serve that, or use that room as an air lock for loading doors for the LR.

but yea, the building will be long and narrow (relatively) and you'll get a good 850ft2 of real studio space out of it so that's nothing to complain about :-)

I had previously thought of a CR window on the side, but don't know if I'd like it, but who knows, maybe I would, I've read where some top studios have that feature. I read your post this morning and am now at work. I'm mentally trying to figure out your floor plan suggestions, ... so far I'm a bit confused after the " window on the side" lol You know how its sometimes difficult translating texts. I'll dig in more this evening after the kids go to bed.

Thanks again!

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

How important is the 15' width of the control roorm?
You added a half bath. What else do you want in the building?
Is the entire 20'x50' (external) for studio?

My drawing had the smaller iso booth double as the sound lock. Creative thinking can do wonders.

Keep asking and answering questions!

Andre

Crap, I hate cell phones! I just typed a kind of lengthy response, hit the wrong button and lost everything! I'm at work so I'll re do this evening at some point from my home computer. Thanks

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

How important is the 15' width of the control roorm?
You added a half bath. What else do you want in the building?
Is the entire 20'x50' (external) for studio?

My drawing had the smaller iso booth double as the sound lock. Creative thinking can do wonders.

Keep asking and answering questions!

Andre

The 15' wide control room isn't carved in stone. I've been trying to calculate the proper control room dimensions by using some of the "ratios" I've read about on here, so in my case it seems I need to use as narrow as possible to allow for a better, possibly more creative floor plan, correct?

The half bath definitely is a must, as I no longer wish to have clients entering my home (even though this will be attached, it will have an outside entrance).

You and Glenn have been most helpful with your suggestions, and I do appreciate it. FYI, I'm 53 with a 34 year old wife, 3 and 6 year old children and a passion for music production,..so most days I'm pretty stretched!, so again, thanks loads guys.

I will continue to try and get the hang of sketchup and see if I can post something for you to check out. Any other ideas would indeed be appreciated though.

Marc

[gullfo]

as a general rule, it helps to understand your equipment (planned or existing), workflow style and things like "half-bath" etc are critical to finding a workable layout. do you need some minimal lounge space as well? if so, this might consume the space of one of your isolation rooms but may be worthwhile. sometimes the totality of the studio isn't simply the isolated and treated spaces but includes the overall vibes and facilities. as a note the bathroom could consume a significant portion of the budget because you'll need to factor in the drains + water lines - and if you're going to do that, maybe using some space for a small bar/sink, microwave and TV with a love seat creates a lounge space so you're not cramming things and also avoiding any reasons for clients to enter your home.

[avare]

Originally Posted by gullfo

as a general rule, it helps to understand your equipment (planned or existing), workflow style and things like "half-bath" etc are critical to finding a workable layout. do you need some minimal lounge space as well? if so, this might consume the space of one of your isolation rooms but may be worthwhile. sometimes the totality of the studio isn't simply the isolated and treated spaces but includes the overall vibes and facilities. as a note the bathroom could consume a significant portion of the budget because you'll need to factor in the drains + water lines - and if you're going to do that, maybe using some space for a small bar/sink, microwave and TV with a love seat creates a lounge space so you're not cramming things and also avoiding any reasons for clients to enter your home.

+1. The aesthetic comforts can make or break the success of a studio.

As a note on requirements, where is the studio located geographically? An uopdate to teh OP's profile to inculde the state, or at least general location. The second part of the note is what are the HVAC requirements and will the central unit be located on the main floor or on the roof?

Andre

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

The 15' wide control room isn't carved in stone. I've been trying to calculate the proper control room dimensions by using some of the "ratios" I've read about on here, so in my case it seems I need to use as narrow as possible to allow for a better, possibly more creative floor plan, correct?

The half bath definitely is a must, as I no longer wish to have clients entering my home (even though this will be attached, it will have an outside entrance).

You and Glenn have been most helpful with your suggestions, and I do appreciate it. FYI, I'm 53 with a 34 year old wife, 3 and 6 year old children and a passion for music production,..so most days I'm pretty stretched!, so again, thanks loads guys.

I will continue to try and get the hang of sketchup and see if I can post something for you to check out. Any other ideas would indeed be appreciated though.

The shape can be of many ratios. FYI, you are jsut a young pup compared to me. I am whole 2 years older!

You did not answer my question: Is the entire 20'x50' (external) for studio?

Andre

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gullfo

as a general rule, it helps to understand your equipment (planned or existing), workflow style and things like "half-bath" etc are critical to finding a workable layout. do you need some minimal lounge space as well? if so, this might consume the space of one of your isolation rooms but may be worthwhile. sometimes the totality of the studio isn't simply the isolated and treated spaces but includes the overall vibes and facilities. as a note the bathroom could consume a significant portion of the budget because you'll need to factor in the drains + water lines - and if you're going to do that, maybe using some space for a small bar/sink, microwave and TV with a love seat creates a lounge space so you're not cramming things and also avoiding any reasons for clients to enter your home.

The original quote/pricing was including the half bath, BUT no additional soundproofing. I have another builder who is a friend of mine and says he can certainly save me some money so hopefully the additional block walls won't blow the budget completely out of the water. He states that for sure it will cost more for the cinder block sand filled walls though,... so I plan on getting him more involved whenever I decide on what EXACTLY I want done.

Since I'll still be using this addition on a part time basis, I can't see me needing a lounge area. While that would be a nice addition, I just think it might be a waste of money/square footage. You do make a valid point though. If I had more square feet to work with (and more money!) I certainly wouldn't mind having a lounge.

Marc

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

The shape can be of many ratios. FYI, you are jsut a young pup compared to me. I am whole 2 years older!

You did not answer my question: Is the entire 20'x50' (external) for studio?

Andre

I updated my profile. I live in Inman, SC USA. I'm closest to Greenville, SC which is about 1/2 hour away,.. and Columbia, SC, which is 1 hour 45 mins. away.

If you mean the entire 20'X50' will be dedicated to the studio, and nothing else,.. then yes. I'm beginning to wonder though, if I shouldn't just make the length smaller, say 40-45' just to try and save some money. If I calculate the price per square foot, backing down to 40' is a pretty substantial savings, which could be put toward proper soundproofing. Not that I WANT to make it smaller,.. just trying to plan, plan, plan,... just like you suggested.

The HVAC will be located ground level, not sure what the "requirements" are. Are you referring to the building codes here in SC?

Thanks again

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

I updated my profile. I live in Inman, SC USA. I'm closest to Greenville, SC which is about 1/2 hour away,.. and Columbia, SC, which is 1 hour 45 mins. away.

If you mean the entire 20'X50' will be dedicated to the studio, and nothing else,.. then yes. I'm beginning to wonder though, if I shouldn't just make the length smaller, say 40-45' just to try and save some money. If I calculate the price per square foot, backing down to 40' is a pretty substantial savings, which could be put toward proper soundproofing. Not that I WANT to make it smaller,.. just trying to plan, plan, plan,... just like you suggested.

The HVAC will be located ground level, not sure what the "requirements" are. Are you referring to the building codes here in SC?

Great! That is a beautiful part of The States you are in.

Yes I mean that about the space. Before thinking about reducing the size for budget reasons, work out the cost. It is not difficult, just time consuming and laborious. See my signature line for more information about that.

Requirements meaning rooms, lounge area, etc. You already addressed the loounge area. Have you considered a "mulipurpose" room with lounge like amenities and seeing into the studio for potential use as a second iso booth when needed? Drapes can visually isolate the 2 rooms when visual contact is not required. Going with the location data, heating is not a major concern.

On the block walls, you do not need them sand filled. For the price differential, it is not worth it in your case.

I hope you have noticed that even now, through proper designing, costs of things ahve dropped (not sandfilling the blocks) and item that you have discounted are becoming possibel (lounge/soud lock/bonus iso booth) at minimal expense by combining.

Keep it going!

Andre

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

Great! That is a beautiful part of The States you are in.

Yes I mean that about the space. Before thinking about reducing the size for budget reasons, work out the cost. It is not difficult, just time consuming and laborious. See my signature line for more information about that.

Requirements meaning rooms, lounge area, etc. You already addressed the loounge area. Have you considered a "mulipurpose" room with lounge like amenities and seeing into the studio for potential use as a second iso booth when needed? Drapes can visually isolate the 2 rooms when visual contact is not required. Going with the location data, heating is not a major concern.

On the block walls, you do not need them sand filled. For the price differential, it is not worth it in your case.

I hope you have noticed that even now, through proper designing, costs of things ahve dropped (not sandfilling the blocks) and item that you have discounted are becoming possibel (lounge/soud lock/bonus iso booth) at minimal expense by combining.

Keep it going!

Andre

Pretty good idea for possibly making a combo lounge/iso room. Definitely worth some more creative thinking.

As for the "sand filled" blocks. I was thinking that if I were to sand fill the blocks, it would increase my soundproofing to the point that I wouldn't have to worry all that much about soundproofing the interior walls,..i.e., staggered studs, two layers of sheetrock, greenglue, etc., and that I could just focus on the ceiling.

If I don't sand fill the blocks, will they still provide much more soundproofing than a standard frame built wall? I mean, I can see there will definitely be more mass, but how much more I guess is the question.

Marc

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

Pretty good idea for possibly making a combo lounge/iso room. Definitely worth some more creative thinking.

Congratulations! You got the idea of the importatnace of designing!

As for the "sand filled" blocks. I was thinking that if I were to sand fill the blocks, it would increase my soundproofing to the point that I wouldn't have to worry all that much about soundproofing the interior walls,..i.e., staggered studs, two layers of sheetrock, greenglue, etc., and that I could just focus on the ceiling.

Sand filling the blocks will increase the TL (Transmisson Loss) by maybe 3/4 dB.

If I don't sand fill the blocks, will they still provide much more soundproofing than a standard frame built wall? I mean, I can see there will definitely be more mass, but how much more I guess is the question.

The short answer is that the blocks insetad of drywall/stud for the outside leaf will provide the required TL to reduce the low frequency rumble from Harleys, etc. The long answer is study IR 586 and IR 761 linked off my Acoustics Treatment/Reference Guide free stuff post here. I linked it because there will many references to documents linked there in the future.

Well linked,
Andre

[LSP]

Originally Posted by avare

Congratulations! You got the idea of the importatnace of designing!

Sand filling the blocks will increase the TL (Transmisson Loss) by maybe 3/4 dB.



The short answer is that the blocks insetad of drywall/stud for the outside leaf will provide the required TL to reduce the low frequency rumble from Harleys, etc. The long answer is study IR 586 and IR 761 linked off my Acoustics Treatment/Reference Guide free stuff post here. I linked it because there will many references to documents linked there in the future.

Well linked,
Andre

The two links "IR586 & IR761" wouldn't open. There was an "error 404", whatever that is.

I'm astounded that sand filling doesn't/won't help that much. It just seemed that it would add a lot more mass = more soundproofing.

Love to learn!

Late for work! Gotta go for now. More studying/planning this evening.

Thanks!

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

The two links "IR586 & IR761" wouldn't open. There was an "error 404", whatever that is.

I tried and there is form of erro at the NRC end.

I'm astounded that sand filling doesn't/won't help that much. It just seemed that it would add a lot more mass = more soundproofing. More studying/planning this evening.

A doubling of mass gives a theoretical 5 dB improvement in TL. The wholes in a concrete block are maybe 30% of the area. Sand is lighter than concrete. Epending on you local building requirements, if they are like here in Ontario, you have fill every third opening and put rebar in it. It is adding minimal mass and TL while and adding a lot of labor costs.

Andre

[John White]

Originally Posted by LSP

The two links "IR586 & IR761" wouldn't open. There was an "error 404", whatever that is.

Yes, None of my saved links nor other links have worked for me in recent weeks.
Sorry for not having brought it up last week, but figured it was a personal computer glitch.
The main page still boots up fine.

[LSP]

I've been working with sketchup and upon trying to save as a jpeg, there is no option for "save as jpeg".

I'm following the instructions in the sketchup help, but the jpeg option isn't showing up.

Can anyone perhaps tell me how to do it, or what I'm missing?

I'm on windows 7.

Thanks

[gullfo]

you export it as 2D

[LSP]

Originally Posted by gullfo

you export it as 2D

Doh! I think I was exporting as 3d.

Thanks

[LSP]

This is what I've come up with thus far. None of the dimensions were planned, this was just my attempt at trying to create a workable floor plan given the narrow foot print I have to work with. Also note that I only made the length 45'. I had completely not considered the fact that I still need to drive my vehicle to the back to of the yard occasionally, and 50' will be very close. Hopefully I can still use the 50, but figured I'd be conservative just in case for now.

The combo lounge/iso room is at the entrance. The half bath is beside that.

Not sure what to do about the hallway beside the control room, it seems like wasted space to me. I'm thinking about perhaps putting a storage closet at the end of the hall. I could then use the wall of the hallway to hang all of the chords, etc.

Thoughts?

Marc

[gullfo]

the reason for the hallway is it allows access to all of the rooms without interrupting activities in any of them. plus acts as a sound lock to the exterior doors and between rooms. also, if your egress requirements are to have no more than 1 door between the room and the exterior exit door, then this is one of the only ways to achieve it. so it seems like wasted space but it's not.

[avare]

Originally Posted by LSP

This is what I've come up with thus far. None of the dimensions were planned, this was just my attempt at trying to create a workable floor plan given the narrow foot print I have to work with. Also note that I only made the length 45'. I had completely not considered the fact that I still need to drive my vehicle to the back to of the yard occasionally, and 50' will be very close.

Congratulations on your first Sketchup drawing! I hope the learning curve was considerably easier that you thought.

You have experienced the difficulty of working with the 20' (~18.5' inside the walls) width. I see one iso booth now, and the 15' width for the control room criteria removed. Consider my plan with some additional length on the the busy end to create space for the half bath.

Sketched creatively,
Andre

[andrebrito]

I suggest you strongly float the floor if you are going to use a full range system in the control room... either that or at least some anti-vibrational system for the speakers if full range or subs. And I mean a real floating floor, concrete based.

If you are going to use typical near-field speakers you don't require to use a floating floor.