25th July 2012
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#1 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 276
Thread Starter | Studio design - Legitimate Business, Greensboro, NC
I'm posting this to get input on my current design for an upfit to my studio. Currently, the building has existing interior walls, electrical, and plumbing but all of that will be removed and I'll be working within just the shell of the structure. I own the building and it is a free standing structure that shares no walls with any other buildings. All floors are a concrete slab.
Interior dimensions are 73' x 23'. The drawing is to scale. The red walls will go all the way to the existing ceiling (11'7"). The blue walls will go lower giving the rooms lower ceilings. Over the control room this is to allow for some duct work to be hidden in the ceiling, in the iso booths it is to allow for open storage on top of them that's accessible from the live room. The purple wall goes to the ceiling but it is really just an extension from the blue wall underneath. This is to keep the full wall thickness to the front door area.
In the rooms where the walls don't go all the way to the existing ceiling (CR and iso booths), I would build the ceiling on top of the walls with a similar construction to the walls. I would like to put a new ceiling in the live room that would be attached to the red walls that surround the live room and be a few inches below the existing ceiling. The existing ceiling is crappy plaster and is hard to work with if trying to install a cloud of lighting. This ceiling is an area I need some input on.
Wall construction will be: 1/2" drywall, 1/2" drywall, 2x4" stud wall with insulation, 3" air gap, 2x4" stud wall with insulation, 1/2" drywall, 1/2" drywall. In the drawing, when you see two walls next to each other, that is the construction with the middle black line being the air gap and the drywall facing into each room. In single walls (like those on the top and bottom of the live room, it is just half of this setup with the air gap being just a gap from the structure to the new wall.
The purple and green lines are quickly drawn HVAC lines. Green is supply and Purple is return. The unit will sit right outside the back of the building. Though it's hard to see clearly, none of the ducts between rooms attach except right at their origin. This way, sound would have to travel all the way back through the ducts each way to transmit into another room, not sure if this is a decent idea, it's what the contractor's HVAC guy came up with. He's done theaters before but no studios. We discussed large duct sizing to increase volume and decrease velocity. Need input here as well.
The orange is the electrical box. As far as electrical, I planned on doing all the high voltage wiring in metal conduit as to not pierce the walls and have weak spots. I planned on just putting small holes where the conduit would travel through and using acoustic caulk to seal the penetrations. Any good sources on how to do electrical/low voltage wiring properly in a studio would be awesome. Build it like the pros does a good job of saying how to plan the entire system but not as many about installation.
To recap:
Does the design make sense? Anything I've overlooked?
Can I do a ceiling that is 23' x about 28' over the live room easily or are the spans too large?
Does the HVAC system make sense? Will I have isolation problems?
I know conduit is better for isolation than in wall wiring, but what is the best way to route it around the building without penetrating walls too much?
Any other thoughts?
I've been dealing with an architect and contractor on much of this but I just wanted some more input from people more on the studio side of it.
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28th July 2012
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#2 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 3,048
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KHilbert,
Nice project...
The HVAC runs are fine, however it depends on the details that are missing in the drawing. Do you have baffle boxes on the rooms? Even if you have separate runs, the lines can cross-talk because of the thin duct walls.
What is your isolation target and at what frequencies? My paper on "How to find out how much Isolation you need.pdf" found on my publications page may be of help. Walls built as you described will have an STC rating of around 64-65. The mass resonance of these lightweight panels will have a resonance of 21Hz and usable STL down to about 30Hz.
Electrical: have one entrance point, sealed and caulked well, then run the conduit on the walls to where it needs to go. Most of it will be covered with treatment anyway. 
I'm not real excited about the layout. I think you could have better flow. Is the main entrance on the left or right?
Cheers,
John
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28th July 2012
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#3 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 276
Thread Starter |
Thanks for the input!
HVAC: By baffle boxes do you mean the boxes that are lined with insulation and sort of snake around to reduce noise? I haven't thought about that but could easily do that. As far as cross talk, the ducts above the control room are going to be hidden in the ceiling, could I just fill that with mineral wool or similar insulation to reduce noise between the walls of the ducts?
Isolation: I don't really know exactly what numbers I want as far as isolation. I'd like to be able to monitor from the control room without having any bleed for most instruments. I record lots of very loud bands and if there's some bleed from loud bass amps and guitar amps, that can be acceptable but I'd prefer to have it quiet enough that when the monitors are on at a reasonable level, you can't hear what's going on in the live room. I know that's sort of vague but I don't know how to translate that to Dbs or STC. As far as isolation booths to live room, I'd like to have it so that I can have a half stack playing in them and have it be quiet enough so that room mics for drums won't pick up the bleed.
Electrical: Cool. Thanks.
Layout: The double doors on the left are where the building faces the street. there is a sidewalk right in front. This is where bands load in and out of. The back is more of a back enterance for bands. The back door is actually 2 feet lower than the front door. The ground slopes down with the building and the slope is compensated for by a 2 foot drop off between the back wall of the control room and the wall of the lounge. However, in the architect I've been dealing with had the idea to just build a wooden platform up the 2 foot difference making the lounge the same height as the rest of the building, then have stairs just to the back door. That's what I plan on doing.
The idea behind my design is so that people can go in and out of the control room during tracking without interrupting anything. Also, I was trying to use space to have as much isolation as possible. I track lots of punk bands and we cut lots live. Being able to throw 2 guitar amps in the iso rooms and a bass amp in the hallway if necessary (obviously this will be less isolated) could be cool. Also, the second set of double doors between the iso booths as well as the door from the lounge to the hallway will be big thick metal doors with deadbolts. This way, the entire studio can be double locked to protect against break ins.
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13th August 2012
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#4 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 276
Thread Starter |
After some deliberation, I've decided to scrap the hallway and go for a larger control room. I kept the wall of the lounge the same as to keep its walls off of the same upper slab as the control room and live room. I decided to just go with double doors in and out of the control room.
Also, I know it has been beaten into the ground but...
I've read tons and tons about "floating" a floor with u boats. I don't plan on doing this because, according to me research, it wouldn't have any benefit since I'm building straight onto the concrete slab. Is there a way to know how much isolation I'll actually get between my live room and control room with the previously stated wall assembly? Should I attach the studs straight onto the slab or should I put a sort of rubber between the slab and the stud?
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13th August 2012
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Graham, NC  |
Gimme a shout and stop by the shop... I can show you a coupla' things that will be of benefit, that your architect and contractor will likely screw up pretty easily... and you can also get an idea of what isolation you can get in relation to the methods Rod and I employed here.
I'm over in Graham... (336) 525-2177.
__________________
Good shit ain't cheap, and cheap shit ain't always good.
The finished studio: www.darkpinestudios.com
Studio build blog; dm mobile.com A Rod Gervais designed studio | 
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9th October 2012
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#6 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 276
Thread Starter |
I've gotten my architectural plans done and drawn up. I attached the simple overview. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do HVAC. I'm trying to decide if having one unit sitting out back that I split the ducting at the entrance and have separate runs and zones for the lounge, CR, and live room is best or to maybe get different units for the lounge, CR, and live room and have them put up on the roof of the building. Another idea (thanks to Max) is to get 2 units and have the LR and lounge share one and have a unit just for the CR.
HVAC contractors have sorta just said "we can do whatever you want" so I'm curious if anybody has any insight on what may be best. Any ideas?
My roof is a rubber roof and I'm not sure how much of a pain in the ass it is to use rooftop units and keep them isolated enough from the main structure as to not be too noisy. Any info on this would be useful too.
Thanks all!
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9th October 2012
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#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA
Posts: 1,332
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one advantage of having 2 units is you can optimize each of them for the load and running time - the CR might be running constantly whereas the live room and lounge could be intermittent. then again, a proper zoned system should also serve this function. plus with two units might still be able to operate in the event one of them goes out and it take a few days (or longer) to repair.
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9th October 2012
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Graham, NC |
Glenn brings up a point I hadn't really thought about... that 2nd unit taking over in case one unit goes down.... and you know how hot it gets here! It could be a life saver in the long run! (Another reason I'm glad I have the two units!
Rooftop units on a flat roof can be isolated pretty well. Take a look at Doug Curtis' LA studio build.... The Bridge Recording Studio Build He put a few units on his roof.
Granted, they're probably a coupla' times bigger than what you'll be putting up on your roof, but the same isolation practices will apply.
Can't wait to see this in progress, brother!!
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20th November 2012
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#9 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 276
Thread Starter |
Well, I've been dealing with an engineer on the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC design. I figured it would make more sense to spend some money up front to get my plans done correctly. I have a pretty good working design based around one unit (since 2 is a bit out of budget based on the quotes I've gotten back). I'll post overviews once they're finished. Pretty much, the air handler rests above the bathrooms and a main duct snakes into the CR. It has a few specific twists to reduce noise and I'm going to use internally insulated duct. Hopefully I'll have updated architectural plans and mechanical plans to share soon!
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20th November 2012
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#10 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Central Village CT
Posts: 3,339
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KHilbert  Well, I've been dealing with an engineer on the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC design. I figured it would make more sense to spend some money up front to get my plans done correctly. I have a pretty good working design based around one unit (since 2 is a bit out of budget based on the quotes I've gotten back). I'll post overviews once they're finished. Pretty much, the air handler rests above the bathrooms and a main duct snakes into the CR. It has a few specific twists to reduce noise and I'm going to use internally insulated duct. Hopefully I'll have updated architectural plans and mechanical plans to share soon! | You may find that getting even cooling/heating is a real challenge with a single unit.
If you have a lot of gear in your control room you are going to find that it will typically require a lot more cooling then your live room will most of the time - and, during the transition times of the year - you will most probably require AC in the control room while needing heat in the live room.
Power Station New England requires cooling year round in the control room - heat in the winter in the live rooms. While it has just a single unit for the 2 spaces it also has underslab heat in the live rooms as well as electric reheats for the lobby and live room air.
The system works - but taking a unit that is trying to cool air and reheating that air for areas of the space that require heat also means that energy wise it is very inefficient.
They made the decision to do this based on budget numbers - however they have indicated to me over the years that they regret the decision that they made in that regard.
If I were you I would consider this very carefully.
Rod
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20th November 2012
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#11 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 276
Thread Starter |
Thanks for the reply Rod.
I was wondering about this myself. I don't have a ton of gear but it will surely be growing. Would something like a mini split in the CR or LR help with this? The engineer thought that a mini split would work best for the lounge to avoid over heating/cooling of the lounge. I know dampers can make noise but would a damper system allow me to have better zoning or will the noise not be worth it?
Also, Max's studio looks great. He invited me over to chat about my plans and I learned a ton from him and your design ideas.
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20th November 2012
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Central Village CT
Posts: 3,339
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Zoning with motorized dampers will work fine for normal conditions - but this assumes that all areas will require heat - or cooling - if they require different air temps then this solves nothing.
There are some very quiet mini split systems - however they are not going to handle your fresh air requirements - so now you find yourself getting into things like HRV systems to handle providing conditioned air in your space (you do not want to be dumping 105/30 degree air directing into rooms you want to work in - this even with mini split systems) and the HRV systems can be as expensive as adding another unit depending on the needs of the space.
You can always (of course) deal with this by simply adding the reheats to the system and live with the loss in efficiency.
As far as the lounge goes - that should be the least of your worries - if it is on the sme system as the live rooms you should be pretty good - and the cost of a mini split get's you very close to the cost of a 2nd system anyway.
At some point you will need to simply bite the bullet and choose your poison.
Rod
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