Roxul Safe n' Sound: bad for health?

[Arqen]

Based on my research, Roxul is very good for insulation, and it will technically work as absorption, but that's not what it's designed for. Roxul is designed for use as insulation between your wall studs. It's a good choice if you're simply looking for insulation. An alternative, which excels as both an insulation treatment OR broadband absorption treatment is Bounded Logic Ultratouch (made from recycled denim).

If you're simply looking for an absorption treatment for your wall surfaces (not insulation), I recommend getting a product designed specifically for broadband absorption, such as Bounded Logic Acoustical Panels.

Here's some safety data on Roxul Safe'n'Sound.

I give more information on Roxul, Bonded Logic and other products in part 2 of my report on recording studio design: green soundproofing and acoustic materials. Visit that link to download it free.

I cover a range of absorption and insulation products that are designed to be safe to use, while having low environmental impact.

Cheers,

Tim

[Golitan11]

Ok thanks, I am now planning to buy UltraTouch Denim Insulation.

1. Are 10 2'x4' framed acoustic panels ok (one each wall/ceiling per speaker)?
2. Are bass traps mandatory (if yes, how do you place them (height))?
3. Except acoustic panels and bass traps, is there anything else missing (like foam under monitors)?

[jwl]

I used to like Ultratouch for absorbers and bass traps (assuming you can get it to look good since it is so floppy) but more recent testing shows its gas flow properties aren't as good as other, proven materials such as rigid fiberglass. Because of that I don't really recommend it anymore.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by jwl

I used to like Ultratouch for absorbers and bass traps (assuming you can get it to look good since it is so floppy) but more recent testing shows its gas flow properties aren't as good as other, proven materials such as rigid fiberglass. Because of that I don't really recommend it anymore.

Interesting. Do you have any links on the testing?

[avare]

Originally Posted by Golitan11

I have three main questions:

1. Do you recommend another product for absorbsion acoustic panel (keep in mind that I have a very small budget and I live in Canada (Montreal))?
2. My studio is also my bedroom, so if I have, for example, 12 panels, is it health dangerous?

It is fine for both.

3. Do I absolutely need panels in the corners (bass traps) or panels on walls and ceiling do the job for bass absorbsion?

Only you can answer that question. You have big problem with the room being square to begin with.

Andre

[Golitan11]

What does "gas flow" means and change in absorption?

[Golitan11]

Here are my questions:

1. Which one would be the best: Roxul Safe n' Sound or Bonded Logic UltraTouch?
2. I'm still not sure about making acoustic panels because of the health factor (some people, for example, say that Safe n' Sound smell really bad). So are you all sure that there are no risk at all (it is my #1 priority)?
3. Like I said before, what is "gas flow" and what does it change in absorption?

Thanks!

[jhbrandt]

I think you guys are splitting hairs.

There are zero rock wool or rigid fiberglass products that were designed or manufactured for use in recording studios. We use products in our little-tiny niche studio market that were designed for architectural use and/or building/construction use.

My question for you is: Which one is cheaper? Which one is easier to work with? and.. Which one is more readily available? Look at the specs and get the product that will perform as desired.

There are minor differences in the performance of different products, compare the differences and look at the efficiency of the complete project both acoustically and economically.

As far as smell and health... LET IT AIR OUT! we've been putting this stuff in homes and studios for a VERY long time with no health issues. It is the binder system that is stinky.. let it off-gas before installing.

Cheers,
John

[Glenn Kuras]

2. I'm still not sure about making acoustic panels because of the health factor (some people, for example, say that Safe n' Sound smell really bad). So are you all sure that there are no risk at all (it is my #1 priority)?

As John said you really should not worry about health factor but there is a air quality that some are better then others. I would stick with Knauf. Here is our take on it.

GIK Acoustics uses sound absorption insulation with ECOSE technology. Unlike most competing products, it is manufactured from naturally occurring and/or recycled raw materials and bonded using a bio-based technology free from formaldehyde, phenols, acrylics and with no artificial colors, bleaches or dyes. ECOSE reduces energy consumption and pollutants stemming from the production process and is therefore more fully recyclable than standard mineral wool or fiberglass. The absorptive core has earned the toughest indoor air quality certification in the industry, GREENGUARD™, which is certified to meet CHPS Low-Emitting Materials criteria section 01350. GIK Acoustics treatments with ECOSE technology are easy on air quality for your room, the environment, and your budget.

[2manyrocks]

The most common health risk would be skin and eye irritation from loose fibers during handling it unless you have a particular sensitivity to it. Loose fibers can also be a lung irritant.

Here is a link to a pretty detailed review of several studies:

http://www.nmcphc.med.navy.mil/downloads/ih/mmvf.pdf

[foldback]

It just does not get better or more clear than this great post.

Originally Posted by jhbrandt

I think you guys are splitting hairs.

There are zero rock wool or rigid fiberglass products that were designed or manufactured for use in recording studios. We use products in our little-tiny niche studio market that were designed for architectural use and/or building/construction use.

My question for you is: Which one is cheaper? Which one is easier to work with? and.. Which one is more readily available? Look at the specs and get the product that will perform as desired.

There are minor differences in the performance of different products, compare the differences and look at the efficiency of the complete project both acoustically and economically.

As far as smell and health... LET IT AIR OUT! we've been putting this stuff in homes and studios for a VERY long time with no health issues. It is the binder system that is stinky.. let it off-gas before installing.

Cheers,
John

Last time I looked Roxul had a lot of compelling information on their web site. I love their product, sounds very good to my ears :-)

Good music to all!

[avare]

Ultratouch starts to reflsct internally at thicknesses greater than 4". IF you are 4" or thinner, use either. If thicker than 4" SnS is the way to go of your posted options.

Andre

[Golitan11]

So if I buy Roxul Safe n' Sound, how long should I let it "breathe" (ventilate)?

[jhbrandt]

Give it a week open & separated in the garage & if you can smell anything after a week, give it another week. It depends on how much air is passing through it, etc. Just prop it up so that it can off-gas.

Cheers,
John

[2manyrocks]

http://www.roxul.com/files/RX-NA-EN/...ta%20Sheet.pdf

It appears to use a type of cured formadehyde binder.

There's another recent thread here where the OP reported that rockwool made his eyes itch and that the itch spread to his arms after about an hour. He did not identify which product he used, and it was not clear whether he had any unusually high sensitivity to it or not. He also used some kind of glue on the rockwool. Effects of rockwool

Since the OP here is putting Roxul in a bedroom, it really should be aired out and some caution used.

[jhbrandt]

Rocks,

That is a typical example of someone who has allergies. IF you are allergic or have asthma, be certain to let it off-gas completely.

Otherwise, if you are like most people, it's not going to bother you. Personally, I hate to get itchy working with it, but other than that, it doesn't bother me in the least. - Even in a freshly built room with no air-out period. I get more 'eye-watering' annoyance from fresh plywood.
-- Yeah, at my age, I still go to the shop and feel like I have to 'show' the guys how to do things.

Always use a dust mask when working with it and rubber gloves - cover your arms and body as best you can, if you don't like getting itchy.

If you do this, it will NOT hurt you. It's just a pain.... like reaching into a poopie toilet to retrieve a child's toy. It washes off.

Cheers,
John

[xaMdaM]

Originally Posted by jhbrandt

Rocks,

That is a typical example of someone who has allergies. IF you are allergic or have asthma, be certain to let it off-gas completely.

Otherwise, if you are like most people, it's not going to bother you. Personally, I hate to get itchy working with it, but other than that, it doesn't bother me in the least. - Even in a freshly built room with no air-out period. I get more 'eye-watering' annoyance from fresh plywood.
-- Yeah, at my age, I still go to the shop and feel like I have to 'show' the guys how to do things.

Always use a dust mask when working with it and rubber gloves - cover your arms and body as best you can, if you don't like getting itchy.

If you do this, it will NOT hurt you. It's just a pain.... like reaching into a poopie toilet to retrieve a child's toy. It washes off.

Cheers,
John

+1

For me, regular "pink fluffy" insulation can be handled with minimal skin protection, as it only RARELY causes any irritation.

OC703 causes quite a bit more irritation, so I generally avoid skin contact whenever possible and I do use gloves at all times.

Mineral wool is the mother of all skin irritants, and I cover everything I possibly can, including taping the gap between sleeves and gloves, safety goggles and if I'm going to be working extensively with it, I'll grab a pair of the wife's old panty hose and cut a leg off to cover my head.

Most of the time I was building my studio, I did use a dust mask or respirator mask, if I was working overhead or having to cut a lot of material.

I did have a friend help me for about 2 hours one day, and he couldn't help me with ANY insulation after that. No matter how much he was covered, even working with the pink fluffy, he was covered in a rash in a very short period of time.

So, the word to the wise is... be careful and cover yourself as best you can... it may help, it may not.

As an epilogue, the friend who helped me... has been in the studio several times, and has had no issues with any kind of rash. So, it appears that his was a reaction to physical contact with insulation.

[edward45]

So, the word to the wise is... be careful and cover yourself as best you can... it may help, it may not.

Hi. I was wondering what you meant by this. I understand that it isn't healthy but what do we need to cover ourselves with?
Retin-a

[2manyrocks]

Dust mask, gloves, long sleeves and pants are typically recommended over shorts and a a T shirt. Or you can buy disposable coveralls like painters use for probably under $10.

[Golitan11]

I did not use any dust mask and I did not covered myself except for gloves (t-shirt and shorts) and I am still alive! So I think it is really personal (it did not itch or irritate).

[OpusOfTrolls]

The real question is, 'how bad is it'. The dust created by insulation products is in all cases a lung irritant. Asbestos was proven to become carcinogenic via the inhalation of it's particulate. These days, things have become 'cleaner', but also the people who work with the materials more informed. You must always use a mask/respirator when handling quantities of dust producing materials. I do not always trust science, because even the Electron Microscope cannot find a Higgs Boson.

Sometimes I will handle mineral wool without a mask. I always use gloves because of the irritation to the skin, but it's not always that a PLUUUUME of the stuff is created. When handling these materials, try not to force them. It is in their motion that the dust particulates seperate, and by being steady the amount of dust released is largely reduced.

To put things in perspective, even common household dust is a lung irritant. But I still don't want to breathe it.

To Golitan, follow jhbrandt's advice and let the insulation aerate/offgas.

[TornadoTed]

I use these disposable suits whenever I am handling insulation a lot, they are brilliant and cut out so much irritation.

Amazon.co.uk: disposable boiler suits

Also great when strimming to avoid getting covered in pureed slug

[kasmira]

Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls

I do not always trust science, because even the Electron Microscope cannot find a Higgs Boson.

Woah buddy. Apples to oranges. The Higgs Boson is particle that is theorized to exist. The actual (not theorized) effects of thermal insulation has been scientifically tested many times.

[2manyrocks]

Originally Posted by Golitan11

I did not use any dust mask and I did not covered myself except for gloves (t-shirt and shorts) and I am still alive! So I think it is really personal (it did not itch or irritate).

Some are more bothered by it than others. The less handling of it--the better, too, as was just mentioned.