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Rehearsal Space Project
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IamBama
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#1
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
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Rehearsal Space Project

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a while now, and feel I'm ready to present my plans and hopefully get some feedback. Unfortunately, I am outside of the country right now, and cannot provide many actual images of the space, but I will offer as much detail as I can, and I do have some images of my plans I whipped up.

I have a stand-alone structure I intend to use as a rehearsal space. My goal here is primarily sound isolation, as I would be using it mostly in off-hours (midnight and later). I don't have any means of measuring levels at this time, but I will be using this space to practice the drums and rehearse a band, possibly drumline battery sectionals, and some minor recording (though not much).

The space/structure itself:

It appears the original construction was pretty straight forward. It is well insulated and fully finished-in on the inside. The only thing keeping this place from being a livable studio apartment, is there is no plumbing. The structure stands approx. 100+ feet from the nearest neighbor. It sits on a concrete slab on a bit of a downhill slope. I don't know if this will transmit sound through the exposed surfaces of the slab(?). The room dimensions are 16' x 26' with an 8' ceiling. The exterior is standard so-so vinyl siding, and all located in Nashville, TN. USA.

The plan:

I am thinking of going with the room-within-a-room method.

I will start by plugging the windows with plugs constructed as follows: MDF(or plywood)>Green Glue>Plywood; sealed with acoustic caulk, and filling the window cavity with additional R19. The window will appear un-tampered with from the exterior. This plug method will also be used to address the hole left by removing the a/c unit from the rear wall.

The door will have to be replaced with a well sealed, solid-core door, which will be hinged to swing outward. The interior face of the door will have a layer of Green Glue sandwiched between the door and a piece of MDF.

Next I will line the existing drywall (and my window plugs) with a layer of heavy U-Haul blankets, to dampen any sound in the air-gap. 2" from there, I will lay the footers for the studs to form the new interior wall. The cavities between all the new studs will be filled with R19 as well, and covered with a layer of 5/8" drywall, a layer of Green Glue, and a final layer of 5/8" drywall. All of the seams will be staggered and sealed at the corner/floor/ceiling joints with acoustical caulk, as well as mud-ed and painted.An solid-core interior door will be installed, hinged to swing inward, and also faced with the same Green Glue-sandwich design. The jamb for this door will fitted with acoustic seals as well.

For the ceiling, I plan to use whisper clips/channel with two layers of 5/8" drywall, with a layer of Green Glue between. I've chosen this method because I am not aware of another method of decoupling suitable for an amateur carpenter like myself; though I fear that this design on the ceiling may become my biggest liability as far as transmission, as I understand it will most likely not be as effective as I'd like for the LF produced by the drums (which will, by far, be the most common instrument played/sound produced/noise made there).

I'm still unsure about how the slab may react sound-wise, but I am considering a cheap-to-so-so cork floor. Nothing extravagant, mind you, just something other than the linoleum there now.

This represents my first pass at a design, and I wanted to post it here long before I made any purchases. Nothing is set in stone, and feedback is more than welcome. Though, any suggestions advising against any of the above, please elaborate on why the deviation. Not that I feel this is a flawless design, by any means, but I would greatly appreciate the chance to learn why another route would be better.

Let me know what I missed, guys. Thanks for reading.

Bama
Attached Thumbnails
Rehearsal Space Project-space.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-exists-now.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-room-within-room.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-window-plugs-assembly.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-general-wall-assembly.jpg  

Rehearsal Space Project-door-assembly.jpg  
#2
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
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LegGodt is offline
Hopefully some of the experts on this site will have a chance to respond.

I am also working on a rehearsal space in my home and based on the conversations I had with Rod your design has 3 problems that I see.

1. Fresh air - since you are plugging the windows before adding the new wall.
2. If you are doing a room-within-a-room design you don't need whisper clips/channel on the ceiling. Span new joists on the new walls and then the ceiling is decoupled from the original structure.
3. The original drywall needs to be removed from the walls before adding the new walls and you don't need the U-Haul blankets. You are creating a 3 leaf system based on your design. You'd be better off removing the original drywall and adding 3 or more layers of drywall on the new wall.

Again ... I am not an expert, these are just the things I have read about here and wanted to add my 2 cents.
jwl
#3
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
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What you show in the diagram may be a 3-leaf system, depending on the performance of the drywall clips. I'll leave it to Rod or others to comment further, but this threw up a red flag for me. If it is in fact 3-leaf, a 2 leaf will perform better. You'd be better off removing the layer of existing drywall in the outer leaf, and possibly using strips of drywall to "beef up" the outer structure without adding another leaf.

This graphic explains how a 2 leaf system outperforms a 3 leaf system, given the same amount of drywall layers:



Look at the STC50 graph (this is what you will have), and compare to the STC63. That's a 13dB reduction in sound entering/leaving the room.
#4
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwl View Post
What you show in the diagram may be a 3-leaf system, depending on the performance of the drywall clips. I'll leave it to Rod or others to comment further, but this threw up a red flag for me. If it is in fact 3-leaf, a 2 leaf will perform better. You'd be better off removing the layer of existing drywall in the outer leaf, and possibly using strips of drywall to "beef up" the outer structure without adding another leaf.

This graphic explains how a 2 leaf system outperforms a 3 leaf system, given the same amount of drywall layers:



Look at the STC50 graph (this is what you will have), and compare to the STC63. That's a 13dB reduction in sound entering/leaving the room.
Wow, that picture is fantastic. Cannot believe I've never seen it on this forum before. I don't know much about isolation as I don't need to dabble in that, but this simple picture has made so many more posts actually make sense to me. Thanks.
IamBama
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#5
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
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Hi guys,

Thanks for the input.

For the fresh air issue, I've checked into air purifiers and stand alone air conditioner/dehumidifiers to have placed in the room. I'll most likely be there everyday, and when not generating lots of noise, can open the doors and let it breathe a bit. Maybe install a screen door in between the two heavy doors, lol. It's not the most elegant of solutions, I know. Obviously, I haven't tackled the issue in-depth yet. How does one well ventilate an air tight room?

I now plan to look a bit further into the ceiling design, as I originally settled on the whisper clips in an effort to minimize loss of height; also, I'm not sure I have enough confidence in my framing skills for an overhead structure spanning that much distance. Walls are one thing, but I'm not sure about a ceiling. Though, I'm not adverse to seeking out professional help for the ceiling framing if need be. Ultimately, which method would be most effective? Completely decoupled or whisper clipped?

For the wall design, I've considered removing the existing drywall prior to building the interior walls, though was hoping to avoid it if possible. My school of thought was the existing drywall would contribute with added mass. Though, I suppose an extra layer of drywall added inside the room would be more effective as this would offer the benefit of extra mass while becoming part of the first of two leafs as opposed to creating a third leaf. I don't see adding any drywall to the exterior of the structure as the outside of that leaf is literally outside (outdoors).

By this rationale, though, would the window plugs create a triple-leaf effect (wall>gap>plug>gap>glass)? If so, maybe the plugs aren't the way to go. Any suggestions?

Again, I seriously appreciate all the comments, observations, and general input. I'd much rather work out all these design foreseeable kinks than later discover I should have planned better and kick myself. Thanks for all of your help and thanks for reading.

Bama
Attached Thumbnails
Rehearsal Space Project-rwr-rev-1.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-general-wall-assembly-rev-1.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-window-assembly-rev-1.jpg   Rehearsal Space Project-door-assembly-rev-1.jpg  
#6
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
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I have an external window in my rehearsal space too. I will be adding the window plug to the new wall, not the original wall. This way I can remove it and open the window to get fresh air. I also have an HVAC return and feed in this room so I am getting recycled air from the rest of the house. I discussed this with Rod and he said it was that using a plug in the window and opening it for fresh air would be fine and code compliant.

Lastly, air purifiers and stand alone air conditioner/dehumidifiers will clean and condition the air, but they are not going to add an oxygen source. You need to be concerned about carbon dioxide build up in this room especially since you will have a full band rehearsing in there. You are creating an air tight space and without a proper fresh air supply you are creating a very dangerous situation to be in.
#7
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
My goal here is primarily sound isolation
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 3: isolation techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
I don't have any means of measuring levels at this time
Analog Sound Level Meter, $40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
I don't know if this will transmit sound through the exposed surfaces of the slab
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 3: isolation techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
I am thinking of going with the room-within-a-room method.
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 4: Floor, wall and ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
... the windows ...
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 5: Window and door

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
The door ...
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 5: Window and door

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
How does one well ventilate an air tight room?
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 7: HVAC

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
I now plan to look a bit further into the ceiling design ... Ultimately, which method would be most effective? Completely decoupled or whisper clipped?
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 4: Floor, wall and ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
... building the interior walls ...
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 4: Floor, wall and ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
... window plugs ... Any suggestions?
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, Chapter 5: Window and door

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBama View Post
I'd much rather work out all these design foreseeable kinks than later discover I should have planned better and kick myself.
There's a great book out there with all this in. $25 spent now will probably help you avoid making at least $25 worth of mistakes. I forget the book's title, though.
#8
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
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IamBama ... Rod wrote a book that answers most of these questions. I thought I would offer you some insight I got from reading the book, but I failed to mention the books title. It's a great book and I highly recommend that you pick it up and read through it before you commit to your plans

BTW ... if you are interested its called Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros
IamBama
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#9
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
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Hi guys,

I appreciate the reference materials. I am aware of Rod's book. Sound meters, too. : )

In looking through various posts, I've come to understand the need to provide as much relevant information as possible when posting, especially when seeking advice. The reason I haven't obtained a copy Rod's book, and say I do not have the means to take measurements of audio levels, and can't provide more pictures of the space itself, is because I'm on assignment, working in Angola, Africa.

Unfortunately, Amazon isn't really an option (shipping to my location period, is not an option), and I'm fairly certain most of the pro-audio shops were destroyed during the civil war here.

I can't get started on any actual building for months, so the only thing I can do at this time is plan. Which, is not a bad thing. I figure this is the perfect time to plan as much as I can, which the resources I have (mostly GS), and have a solid plan by the time I get back home to Nashville.

But now I know where to look in Rod's book when I do get it : )


Thanks for reading,


Bama
#10
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
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Cool ... just wanted to make sure you had the title and the link in case you missed it
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