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ways to build acoustic panel without frame
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zzzxtreme
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#1
8th February 2012
Old 8th February 2012
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ways to build acoustic panel without frame

hi there, I ordered 60 pieces of 4x2' 2 inches rockwool slabs, will be arriving tomorrow I think.

being very clumsy guy and having no talent for carpentry, I thought maybe I could use duct tape to piece 2 slabs together, at the corners maybe, and cover with cotton and sew it (will cotton be OK if I can't find burlap ?)

would that be OK or I'm out of my mind? Any suggestion of other ways ?


thanks in advance
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8th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzxtreme View Post
hi there, I ordered 60 pieces of 4x2' 2 inches rockwool slabs, will be arriving tomorrow I think.

being very clumsy guy and having no talent for carpentry, I thought maybe I could use duct tape to piece 2 slabs together, at the corners maybe, and cover with cotton and sew it (will cotton be OK if I can't find burlap ?)

would that be OK or I'm out of my mind? Any suggestion of other ways ?


thanks in advance
Holy shit, thats quite a bit! Should work out great though. You might even want to make some 6" or 8" panels - they help a lot!

You could cover with cotton, it will work. You won't be able to sew the cotton to the mineral wool, if thats what you're asking. However, if you planned to sew the fabric to itself, you'd be alright...

The hardest part with making no frames is figuring out how you're going to hang them from the wall...its easy to hang something framed on a wall.
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8th February 2012
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It will work but rockwool is pretty flimsy so it is not going to hold its shape over time. I would really would build some frames for them.
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8th February 2012
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Just get device like this in the local DIY shop, and you will cut like a real pro

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8th February 2012
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Agreed, I've never had much luck building traps from cotton or rockwool without frames. I would think that the sewing would be just about as time-consuming as the carpentry, but then I'm personally very comfortable/experienced with carpentry..... Sewing? Not so much.... :-)
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8th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwl View Post
Agreed, I've never had much luck building traps from cotton or rockwool without frames. I would think that the sewing would be just about as time-consuming as the carpentry, but then I'm personally very comfortable/experienced with carpentry..... Sewing? Not so much.... :-)
Actually even 703 or 705 is not all that great unless you resin harden the sides.
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9th February 2012
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I have a handful of Rockboard 60 panels. Had them for a bit over a year now, and in the last few months ive had to move 4 times, so they have been through a lot of abuse, falling, tossed around, squeezed by people who dont know what "Pick that up gently" means. All good, no crumbling.

I just wrapped them in burlap and used spray adhesive to hold it in place, which is doing great.

Taping the panels together should work, but might loosen up if you move them around a lot.

I think it will depend on what type of Rocboard you got and what you plan to do with them. Clouds I would make frames for, same with soffits and superchunks, or at least something that will make sure they dont topple over.
zzzxtreme
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10th February 2012
Old 10th February 2012
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thanks a lot guys !

my rockwool arrived yesterday, yes indeed I think I've ordered too much LOL



they do look and feel filmsy. soft, light and easily torn. these are 60kg/m3 type , is that the same as yours jerrick?

I assume I have to stick 2 slabs together to make 4inch thick panels. cover with cloth, hang them on walls, ceilings and corners.

Maybe I should just try making one first without frames huh. Do I just get those 3M Spray glue ?


thanks again guys


oh and Plan B is , maybe I could use hard cardboard boxes, cut a big hole in the middle, leaving a 1-2 inch border, and treat that as a frame ? Is that a workable solution ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzxtreme View Post
Maybe I should just try making one first without frames huh. Do I just get those 3M Spray glue ?


thanks again guys


oh and Plan B is , maybe I could use hard cardboard boxes, cut a big hole in the middle, leaving a 1-2 inch border, and treat that as a frame ? Is that a workable solution ?
You can try. Yes the 3M spray glue works great for sticking cloth to insulation. 3M is HIGHLY flammable. Usually, so is any cheap cloth you'd use to cover the insulation. MAKE SURE you get some fire ******ant spray, otherwise it can go up in flames QUICK.

I've thought about your plan B before. I think it would work good, just make sure your cardboard is not bent at all. One slight bend and I doubt it would hold together...Again, it would be hard to mount cardboard with heavy insulation in it to the wall. I just liked the idea for soffits
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10th February 2012
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thanks for the fire hazard warning. i'll make note of it

rockwool seems light enough, and this is plan C ! (seems like tough to get the carboard boxes I needed)

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10th February 2012
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also there were other threads about using ikea Kilby, i thought it's a bit pricey and takes too much space, but these doesn't. costs 50% -75% less




so hmmm just cut the rockwool in appropriate sizes, tie them up, put them in, and cover the whole thing with cloth?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzxtreme View Post
so hmmm just cut the rockwool in appropriate sizes, tie them up, put them in, and cover the whole thing with cloth?
That will definitely work. Make sure you don't tie them too tight - the rockwool can rip apart quite easily. More wire tied looser would be a better bet than a few tight ones. The 3M spray would probably hold the panels together quite well. I'd say just lay one flat on the ground, coat the surface, drop the second one on to it, then coat that surface, drop the third one, etc. I'd say to let it sit for about an hour before moving them to ensure they're bonded.

Just an idea, if you lay them flat on those shelves instead of sideways, then you wouldn't really need any ties around them, nor would you need to use the spray. Just cut them accordingly.
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Not a bad idea!
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10th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasmira View Post
The 3M spray would probably hold the panels together quite well. I'd say just lay one flat on the ground, coat the surface, drop the second one on to it, then coat that surface, drop the third one, etc. I'd say to let it sit for about an hour before moving them to ensure they're bonded. .
you're suggesting to coat the entire surface of a porous absorber? do you have any data on how GFR is affected when performing such actions? how does the multi-layer impedance changes affect absorption?

or is it that by offering such recommendation, you are venturing from 'somewhat predictable' performance to completely unknown performance?
zzzxtreme
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11th February 2012
Old 11th February 2012
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thanks a lot guys for tips/advice/warnings, im very grateful. rockwool is too bloody filmsy. but LUCKY ME, I found a hardware store with a 70y/o experienced carpenter who knows what I want. So he'll do 15 frames for me, each is about $10. I didn't know using staple gun would be so easy ! He did one for me to test. I will collect the other 14 next week.

so here's my learning journey


a Mistake, the "middle" 2 wooden reinforcement shouldn't be nailed yet. I told him not to nail for the other 14 frames


I did this because I WANT the frame to be visible, it looks nicer


the front, unfinished


finished, kinda


reinforcement




this is why the 2 middle wood shouldn't be nailed first. should have done it AFTER i stuff the rockwool



stapling the back part



the front part, u can notice that it's a bit uneven, will touch up with latex glue and q-tips


end



I have enough rockwool for 30 frames, i'm making 15 first. might do 6x2 frames for the rest. so the cost for 30 4x2' acoustic panels - approx $420
zzzxtreme
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11th February 2012
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will the wood in the center reduce its absorption properties?
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11th February 2012
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That's cheap I just spent 2 G's on 60 4'x2' 4" 703 no frames yet either
zzzxtreme
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20th February 2012
Old 20th February 2012
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so I got my other 14 frames yesterday. I managed to do 6 frames for a total of 7. It is A LOT of work. Nailing and stapling is so tiring for a newbie. I must admit I was a bit skeptical. But boy it made a huge difference. I can hardly hear any echos now when I sing in the room. Everything seemed to sound better especially the cymbals. I vow to only do maximum two frames per week. All sweaty and tired, I've now fallen sick.

with so much rockwool left for another 15 frames (Total of 30 frames), what else can I do with them without having to frame them and also something not space consuming ? put them in somekind of beanbag and place them at corners / under the amps ? any crazy ideas ? thanks in advance





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