New Soundproofed walls from scrach (deisgn and ideas)
Old 7th February 2012
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
New Soundproofed walls from scrach (design and ideas) New Design of Studio



Yeah I want to soundproof a little place I have behind my house For recording and band practice. Right now there are glass doors which I plan to remove and replace them with walls which I show on the design I did.

Though I have no idea on soundproofing, I'm totally new and everything I learned is through friends that know something and internet.

I'd like to know how effective would this wall be? Any STC ratings (roughly) if anyone who knows something more? And are there any improvements that can be made? E.g I read a lot about resilient channel.

Best Regards

Btw should mention ACryllic gybsum board is only the outside one! the insides are the standard 12mm ones!

Last edited by demetrisag; 8th February 2012 at 09:40 PM.. Reason: New Design of the place and studio
Old 7th February 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post


Yeah I want to soundproof a little place I have behind my house For recording and band practice. Right now there are glass doors which I plan to remove and replace them with walls which I show on the design I did.

Though I have no idea on soundproofing, I'm totally new and everything I learned is through friends that know something and internet.

I'd like to know how effective would this wall be? Any STC ratings (roughly) if anyone who knows something more? And are there any improvements that can be made? E.g I read a lot about resilient channel.

Best Regards

Btw should mention ACryllic gybsum board is only the outside one! the insides are the standard 12mm ones!
Read Rod Gervais' book ("Build it like the Pros") - it will help you a lot.

For example, by removing the inner layers of drywall, you would likely increase the STC of that wall. There are some non-intuitive things to consider when dealing with acoustics - Rod's book is an excellent starting point (and beyond).
Old 7th February 2012
  #3
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
inner layers you mean the 2 inner gybsum boards?

and if I do where am I supposed to nail the studs for the cork
Old 7th February 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
inner layers you mean the 2 inner gybsum boards?

and if I do where am I supposed to nail the studs for the cork
Yes - the inner layers.

Regarding the cork, I'm not sure why you are using it. Again - read Rod's book, do some searches on studio builds on Gearslutz, and re-evaluate. Effective isolation is a difficult beast to tackle - proper planning is a big part of it; building it precisely is just as important.

Additionally (rereading your OP), I would be careful not to assume that by replacing doors with a wall, you will be guaranteed a big improvement in isolation.

I'd start with a goal (define what sort of STC you want to achieve), analyze how sound is being passed through your current partitions/floors/ceiling/etc., and then start a plan to tackle those deficiencies.

But to start - read Rod's book.
Old 7th February 2012
  #5
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
hey thanks for reply, I already started reading the book, I do understand now what you told me earlier, really nice book.

As for the cork is it really not soundproofed? what would be better used instead for materials? Just informative now
Old 8th February 2012
  #6
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter


New design, ideas?
Old 8th February 2012
  #7
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter


or is it better with studs like this?
Old 8th February 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Can you post more information about your room (even a line drawing is OK, but some sort of drawing, maybe pictures, construction details, etc.)?

As I said in a previous post - don't make the mistake of assuming that by replacing a set of doors with a beefy wall you will get a significant increase in isolation.
Old 8th February 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post


New design, ideas?
This is the best with seperate plates. Use regular insulation not denser material. Gren glue is probably overkill and significantly more expensive. If you need the additioanl isolation add a forth layer of gypsum board. 2 layers of gypsum board in this construction can yield excellent results in the high 60s/low 70s STC. Yes STC is not appropriate for music islation, but once you get into such high values, it proves a good indicator. Look at IR 761 (off the reference guide sticky) for detailed testing on such walls.

Congratulations on already mastering my signature line!

Andre
Old 8th February 2012
  #10
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Designs of the place and studio! rough designs of course..!

This is how the place is right now


And this is how am thinking (and of course noway close to final) how I migh do it



Now the idea was to somehow soundproof the concrete columns as well because I'm not really sure how good they will be if I didnt. In case I wouldnt then I would move the walls further to the outside and end them (the whole thing) right at the columns and gain more space. (basically leave the columns uncovered)

Secondly still I'm not really sure how effective are the brick walls on the left and upper side and if they really need double wall soo I thought I might soundproof them too, though I'm open to suggestions from people that might know better!

As for the floor I think I wont do anything (just carpet) cause there is nothing below me, just earth! and for the cieling... here it gets complicated.

Above the studio is my bedroom and above my bedroom is my sisters house. which they really dont mind the sound much, So I if I dont soundproof the cieling am I going to lose a lot performance? Mostly I'd like to know if this will annoy my neighbour next door which I showed on the design.

*Smithcok about the doors still not really sure yet how I would go, thinking of building them or buying them, will see on a later stage, after finishing the main design! but really thansk for the concern!

*Andre! your comment about me mastering your signature really moved man! thanks! Btw its separates plates I was thinking.
Old 9th February 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
andrebrito's Avatar
 

Andre,

Actually the benefits of Green Glue or other vynil membranes are seen not with the STC value but at lower frequencies.

For instance...

IR 761, for a double stud wall pg 348 you get 70 dB at 500 and only 39 db at 100 Hz

A much simpler single stud wall with gypsum and Green Glue gets 61 dB at 500 but 40 db at 100 Hz
Old 9th February 2012
  #12
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Green glue in other words can get me better lower frequencies performance?
Old 10th February 2012
  #13
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Bump for attention!
Old 16th February 2012
  #14
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
This is the view from above which you can see the dimensions, The dryboard and stonewool are the same sizes all around.
The only thing that changes are the airgaps which they do because firstly more air gap is better and secondly to keep the interior one straight line.




Those are the views from outside which I show which places already had brick, which werent
and the concrete columnn both horizontal and vertical so I will use acryllic dryboard for exterior.





I plan to get an STC about 65

And lastly I should mention I dont intend to soundproof my ceiling cause my ceiling leeds to my bedroom and after that my sister's kitchen and more over their bedroom. So I thought It wont need any isolation.

Should also mention that now I intend to use steel studs (factory ones for drywall because way cheaper) and remind that it is a true double wall assembly.
Old 7th March 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Use the brick all round. It will give you better LF TL.

What are the upper floor walls? If you have insufficient isolation in that path, it will be your weak link.

PLEASE PUT YOUR GEOGRAPHIC REGION IN YOUR PROFILE!

Andre
Old 7th March 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Before you do this you need to find out if your locality has building regulations.

Where I live (the USA) in most places you cannot have a room without either a door or a window. In my town, you would need a building permit to close off doors with walls, and the inspector will tell you some of the details he will require to authorize your plans.

Stop trying to re-invent the wheel. Just google sound proofing assemblies and look at the wall systems that experts have designed. They come with STC ratings.

If you will have loud bass, the most important thing you can do is use resilient clips or channels to attach the drywall to. This website, for instance (one of dozens), has test reports that detail construction method and results:
Standard Wall Assembly vs Soundproofing Clips & Channels Wall Assembly

At some point you're going to get to a limit though, unless you have a tall enough ceiling to build a suspended floor, because loud bass will go through the slab and right around your walls. I have no idea what level of sound it would take for that, but probably pretty high -- unless you connections between your wall and your slab are insufficient.
Old 7th March 2012
  #17
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Use the brick all round. It will give you better LF TL.

What are the upper floor walls? If you have insufficient isolation in that path, it will be your weak link.

PLEASE PUT YOUR GEOGRAPHIC REGION IN YOUR PROFILE!

Andre
The upper floor part of the walls are the docks (the foundations let's say) which are already there, they are solid concrete, you can see the sizes in the plans.As of now instead of walls there are sliding windows below those all around which I plan to remove to build the walls.

So you are saying brick for exterior will yelld better results in the low register, is there any type of brick for that purpose or the normal hollow one is ok? Like the one I show in my drawings
Old 7th March 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
The upper floor part of the walls are the docks (the foundations let's say) which are already there, they are solid concrete, you can see the sizes in the plans.As of now instead of walls there are sliding windows below those all around which I plan to remove to build the walls.

So you are saying brick for exterior will yelld better results in the low register, is there any type of brick for that purpose or the normal hollow one is ok? Like the one I show in my drawings
Thank you for your geographic location.

With blocks, the heavier the better. 100 mm hollow blocks, meaning similar to what you show, with various second leafs will perform similar to what what is in fig 9, pdf page 15 of IR 586. With greater than one layer of drywall and deeper space, the TL will be better.

Having additional data, we can give usefull advice!

Happily helping,
Andre
Old 7th March 2012
  #19
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Thank you for your geographic location.

With blocks, the heavier the better. 100 mm hollow blocks, meaning similar to what you show, with various second leafs will perform similar to what what is in fig 9, pdf page 15 of IR 586. With greater than one layer of drywall and deeper space, the TL will be better.

Having additional data, we can give usefull advice!

Happily helping,
Andre
Andre great advice about the bricks, though I had been wondering. my celiing is solid concrete 25cm as far as i know. I dont intend to soundproof it cause it is low enough already. though above my celieing is my bedroom and above my bedroom another house (my sisters) which they dont mind the noise. If I dont soundproof the cieling does it worth it to continue with brick walls?
Old 7th March 2012
  #20
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
And another question, since you migh noticed on my designs I also have the horizontal foundations where I want to build my soundproofing. Those ones are around 10 inch thick.
Is there anywhere that tells us how solid concrete of 10 inches performes at low frequencies?
Old 7th March 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
And another question, since you migh noticed on my designs I also have the horizontal foundations where I want to build my soundproofing. Those ones are around 10 inch thick.
Is there anywhere that tells us how solid concrete of 10 inches performes at low frequencies?
There's a PDF of a 6" concrete slab with a graph here:

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/tests/table.aspx

It shows about 40 db reduction (basically flat) up to 250 Hz.

If you need to type in a zip code, use a 5 digit number, like 90210
Old 7th March 2012
  #22
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
How is this update design?

not sure if the decouple of the walls is done right, or anything else for that matter.

but what you think?



That should be around 75 somewhere? with good performance on LF
Old 8th March 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
Andre great advice about the bricks, though I had been wondering. my celiing is solid concrete 25cm as far as i know. I dont intend to soundproof it cause it is low enough already. though above my celieing is my bedroom and above my bedroom another house (my sisters) which they dont mind the noise. If I dont soundproof the cieling does it worth it to continue with brick walls?
You are asking two separate, but related questions. If you are satisfied with the isolation that the ceiling is providing, then it is fine.

With the current design, the drywall walls are the weak link. From all that we know of from what you have written, they will not provide satisfactory Low Frequency (LF) TL. Using brick for the walls has nothing to do with the ceiling.

Andre
Old 8th March 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
And another question, since you migh noticed on my designs I also have the horizontal foundations where I want to build my soundproofing. Those ones are around 10 inch thick.
Is there anywhere that tells us how solid concrete of 10 inches performes at low frequencies?
10"thcik concrete on ground will not be a TL problem with your design.

Andre
Old 8th March 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
How is this update design?

not sure if the decouple of the walls is done right, or anything else for that matter.

but what you think?



That should be around 75 somewhere? with good performance on LF
The columns are connecting the two leafs. They have to as isolated as much as possible from each other.

Regarding your p-mail. no I do not know of such tests specifically.

Andre
Old 8th March 2012
  #26
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
10"thcik concrete on ground will not be a TL problem with your design.

Andre
They are not on the ground though its the horizontal dock on top of the design
Old 8th March 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
They are not on the ground though its the horizontal dock on top of the design
I do not understand. Please provide a drawing, or clear reference to a drawing already in the thread to show this.

Andre
Old 8th March 2012
  #28
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter


Andre can you also pls help me understand the air mass resonance calculation?
Old 8th March 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrisag View Post
They are not on the ground though its the horizontal dock on top of the design
I do not see the floor detail in the drawing you put in the post above this. MAM calculation is detailed in IR 586, already linked to you.

Andre
Old 8th March 2012
  #30
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
I do not see the floor detail in the drawing you put in the post above this. MAM calculation is detailed in IR 586, already linked to you.

Andre
I know it is but I just dont get it. Maybe I am a little stupid. I dont know!

As for the drawing I wasnt talking about the floor but the celing. Those 10 inch docks along the cieling how would they affect my ratings

Andre another question that poped to my head after this month of reading and reading and learning..

My space is 7m x 3,5m. Does it really worth to devide it to two parts? control and live room?
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Nehe555 / Low End Theory
20
Remoteness / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
32
Remoteness / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
21
AlexLakis / So much gear, so little time!
3
Plush / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
10

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.