Help me tame my cymbal bleed

jrubbernek · 2nd February 2012

hi i have been jumping around forums and asking around on how to solve my hi hat bleed problem. And believe me i have tried all kinds of techniques, you name em. believe me i have tried...yes, including deadening the whole ceiling.

in this case i'm asking for help in the recording process, because I love to have a good source coming out of my studio. because in the mixing process this pretty easy to solve, just do a drum replace with drumagog and you're set. right? but i think my little brother can do that. so...

Here's the case, in my raw recording sources I'm hearing alot of hi hats, and cymbals. hi hats the most. Probably on every mic, mostly on OH, room and snare mic. I've tried moving drums and mic around, but the problem never seems to be solved.

The room is a pretty small around 3(W)x4.5(L) meters..and about 3 meters in height. I guess my question is

Could it be that the acoustics of the room is what's causing the cymbals to bounce of the walls, and too many of the reflections coming back to the mic?
Is there anything i could do about this? any DIY acoustic treatment i should consider using?

currently mix of diffuser and absorbers are hung on the wall. the whole wall is a mixture of diffusers and absorbers too.
Please help me out...I've spent alot already on acoustics, and still can't seem to find a way to tame my cymbal bleed.

here are some short samples

GoldenOne · 2nd February 2012

This issue is typically solved by working on the player's technique. The player sounds like a cymbal basher and if you want less hihat or cymbals coming thru, then have the player play the cymbals lighter. There's a lot of finesse in playing the drums that really makes the difference in having a great recorded drum sound vs a poor one. With this in mind, i would experiment with placing your oh mics in front of the kit instead of above. This will emphasize more of the drums than cymbals, so it may be one other thing to experiment with.

Smithcok · 3rd February 2012

^^yep

It can be a big of mic positioning, but in the end, the playing style is the biggest determinant of hi-hat bleed

Smithcok · 3rd February 2012

^^yep

It can be a combination of mic positioning/cymbal choice/acoustics, but in the end, the playing style is the biggest determinant of hi-hat bleed

jrubbernek · 4th February 2012

hey guys thanks for the help and input...I know drummers style of playing can determine hi hat bleed, but really telling the drummer to hit the hats softer, is like telling a guitarist to play his guitar softer at a heavy part of a song.

So acoustic wise, is there anything I can do?

GREENFENDR · 4th February 2012

I wouldn't change the acoustics in my room to suit a player, But I agree that its a players techinque issue. The first time I ever recorded a real professional studio drummer I noticed how light he was on the cymbals. and like another drummer friend of mine found out when I told him to go light on them "oooh, it makes the drums sound bigger!"

jrubbernek · 8th February 2012

hmmmmm, I really should start thinking about telling the drummer to hit the hats softer...

oh ya one more thing does the microphone also effect how much of a room sound it captures? like say, i am using a small condenser now, if I switch into using a bigger diaphragm condenser would it capture more of the drums you think?

right now i am using a SM81 on OH, thinking of getting the b2 pro by behringer, and using that for the overheads...

any thoughts?

Smithcok · 8th February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrubbernek

hmmmmm, I really should start thinking about telling the drummer to hit the hats softer...

oh ya one more thing does the microphone also effect how much of a room sound it captures? like say, i am using a small condenser now, if I switch into using a bigger diaphragm condenser would it capture more of the drums you think?

right now i am using a SM81 on OH, thinking of getting the b2 pro by behringer, and using that for the overheads...

any thoughts?

Pull the spec sheets for the mics - take a look at the polar pattern and off axis response - those will be indicators of how switching mics might help.

In the end - it doesn't matter what mic you choose if the drummer is hat mashing.

tronnyjenkins · 8th February 2012

I can't agree more with the guys above.
Try the other things first before buying another mic- sm81s are capable of great sounds.
However, I typically DO want some cymbals in my overheads... (some engineers actually like the bleed from all of their mics, but I think the ones that say that are recording drummers with finesse)

That being said, some drummers will never be able to play the cymbals soft enough...so you may want to look at ways of isolating mics.

2nd February 2012	#2
GoldenOne Gear maniac Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 201	This issue is typically solved by working on the player's technique. The player sounds like a cymbal basher and if you want less hihat or cymbals coming thru, then have the player play the cymbals lighter. There's a lot of finesse in playing the drums that really makes the difference in having a great recorded drum sound vs a poor one. With this in mind, i would experiment with placing your oh mics in front of the kit instead of above. This will emphasize more of the drums than cymbals, so it may be one other thing to experiment with. __________________ Alex Chase http://www.la-audio.com FS: Audio Technica AT4050, Sennheiser MD421 x2, AKG D112, Sterling Audio ST44 x2, M Audio Project Mix PM for details... http://soundcloud.com/cityhawks/drifting-among-the-stars

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3rd February 2012	#3
Smithcok Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,112	^^yep It can be a big of mic positioning, but in the end, the playing style is the biggest determinant of hi-hat bleed

4th February 2012	#5
jrubbernek Gear maniac Joined: May 2009 Posts: 284 Thread Starter	hey guys thanks for the help and input...I know drummers style of playing can determine hi hat bleed, but really telling the drummer to hit the hats softer, is like telling a guitarist to play his guitar softer at a heavy part of a song. So acoustic wise, is there anything I can do?

4th February 2012	#6
GREENFENDR Gear nut Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 136	I wouldn't change the acoustics in my room to suit a player, But I agree that its a players techinque issue. The first time I ever recorded a real professional studio drummer I noticed how light he was on the cymbals. and like another drummer friend of mine found out when I told him to go light on them "oooh, it makes the drums sound bigger!"

8th February 2012	#7
jrubbernek Gear maniac Joined: May 2009 Posts: 284 Thread Starter	hmmmmm, I really should start thinking about telling the drummer to hit the hats softer... oh ya one more thing does the microphone also effect how much of a room sound it captures? like say, i am using a small condenser now, if I switch into using a bigger diaphragm condenser would it capture more of the drums you think? right now i am using a SM81 on OH, thinking of getting the b2 pro by behringer, and using that for the overheads... any thoughts?

8th February 2012	#9
tronnyjenkins Gear Head Joined: Sep 2010 Location: TEXAS Posts: 41	I can't agree more with the guys above. Try the other things first before buying another mic- sm81s are capable of great sounds. However, I typically DO want some cymbals in my overheads... (some engineers actually like the bleed from all of their mics, but I think the ones that say that are recording drummers with finesse) That being said, some drummers will never be able to play the cymbals soft enough...so you may want to look at ways of isolating mics.