Real Wood vs Wood Laminate vs Carpet (yuck)

[jaroxtar]

Hey guys I have a question. Since my basement studio is 1 room, it is the control and 'live room'. Only live instruments I track there are vocals, acoustic and electric guitars and bass guitars. Now I have great mics, preamps, converters and a decent enough grasp on getting a good mix going... but heres the problem. ALL my mixes are sounding a bit dead/muffled/lacking in his and mids. And it occured to me (well a friend pointed out), is the fact that my entire floor is CARPET is killing the high-mids and highs. Is this the case? If so, I need to get this fixed immediately. Would I need to have actual wood flooring installed? Can I get away with wood laminate? I always thought its best to get the best "dead" sound you can get and then reverberate it ITB, thats why my room has wall to wall carpet, a rug, and heavy auralex on the wall as disffusion.. but it seems like that is the recipe for my disaster mixes? Any help would greatly be appreciated. Also, if I go the laminate route, any special foam or absorbtion I'd need underneath the laminate?

[Jens Eklund]

Flooring question

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7425932-post6.html

[BriHar]

Don't forget vinyl - novilon etc. Inexpensive, vast array of finishes, comfortable, inherently offers a degree vibration decoupling, and still reflective. ::

[DanDan]

Are you mixes sounding dead/ muffled in your mix room or when you hear them in the outside world?

DD

[soulfield]

I used a commercial grade laminate (red oak) and it looks amazing. Keeps my little 21 x 14' live room well "live." I also am in a basment and never considered carpet for the way it affects or absorbs a ton of specific upper frequencies.

But if your room had to much absorbtion in the upper end I would expect your mixes to be overly bright rather than what you describe. In other words you would over compensate by eqing bright due to so much of that high end being absorbed in the room.

I'm really happy with the laminate and the cost was so little it was a no brainer. The only draw back is the clicking sound you get when walking on it in hard sole shoes. This is with a hefty foam amd moisture between the slab and laminate flooring. Real wood dosent "click" as much when you walk on it but real wood over concrete brings a whole host of other questions and concerns!

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by jaroxtar

ALL my mixes are sounding a bit dead/muffled/lacking in his and mids. And it occured to me (well a friend pointed out), is the fact that my entire floor is CARPET is killing the high-mids and highs.... ...

The Auralex is what is killing you. I ran a successful studio for many years with a VERY soft floor (intentionally) and thick carpet to balance out the low ceiling, which was hard. (My room was upside down!) No matter what, in a room with a low ceiling you need either a soft floor or a soft ceiling. If you find yourself wanting a wooden reflection sound (like when I would track solo cello, which happened more than I might like...) throw down a piece of plywood. (got that trick from Bruce Swedien).

Back to the Auralex. It is doubtful that you room is 'dead' it is probably just dead in the important frequencies.. the ones lacking from your recordings. If you check the performance characteristics of most foam solutions, they +work very well in the upper and mid range, but fall off quickly below 250-300 Hertz. You've built a muddy room.

The acoustics of your room are very important. You need to know where the problems are and fix them, or if you want to install a broad-band all in one solution, it needs to actually BE broad band.

FWIW, laminate sounds like crap. I've recently started to set up a home music room, and the first thing I noticed was the crummy sound. Covered the floors with a sound deadening flooring, all better. Plastic sounds like plastic. Laminate (though often not plastic) sounds like plastic, probably because of the final coating. Wood sounds like wood. Nothing else that pretends to be wood sounds like wood. It sounds like pretend wood. Like an easy bake oven is to an oven.

[Jens Eklund]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

FWIW, laminate sounds like crap. I've recently started to set up a home music room, and the first thing I noticed was the crummy sound. Covered the floors with a sound deadening flooring, all better. Plastic sounds like plastic. Laminate (though often not plastic) sounds like plastic, probably because of the final coating. Wood sounds like wood. Nothing else that pretends to be wood sounds like wood. It sounds like pretend wood.

Before reinforcing misconceptions, I suggest you check the thread linked to in my previous post:

Flooring question

[DanDan]

I think it would be good to establish what the question actually is.
Dull in the mix room and dull in the real world are opposites.

DD

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by DanDan

I think it would be good to establish what the question actually is.
Dull in the mix room and dull in the real world are opposites.

I was thinking the same. If the carpet is a problem and absorbs too much highs and some mids, shouldn't your mixes should have overcompensated for it? Therefore containing too much of it.

At this point I would follow Jens' recommendation #1:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7425932-post6.html

At least to get an idea what what's really wrong with the room.

As for the Hardwood VS Engineered wood: It is a budget question. Real wood is expensive, and requires more effort to install. In my case I am going to install 10mm laminate, which is not too expensive. And I can do the install myself. But on the other hand, it is just a home studio without any customers. Getting the laminate scratched is not an issue in my case.

BTW: I am not in the phase of treating my room yet. My reasons for moving from W2W carpet to a hard floor, is to get the room the best chances to sound good. And to have more options to treat it later on. All within the parameters of being a hobby...just flying blind I guess

EDIT: Me personally with muddy mixes and without any further information would look into improving bass trapping first.

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

FWIW, laminate sounds like crap. I've recently started to set up a home music room, and the first thing I noticed was the crummy sound. Covered the floors with a sound deadening flooring, all better. Plastic sounds like plastic. Laminate (though often not plastic) sounds like plastic, probably because of the final coating. Wood sounds like wood. Nothing else that pretends to be wood sounds like wood. It sounds like pretend wood. Like an easy bake oven is to an oven.

FWIW - you're mistaken about this ..... a lot of word class studios use laminate flooring in both their tracking and control rooms and they certainly don't "sound like crap".

If a room sounds like crap - don't blame the flooring.........

Oh - just for the record Avatar Studios NYC has laminate flooring in their rooms.....

Rod

[liquidrum]

My 2cents here

If you have a dull room your mixes usually come out bright in the outside world...if you have a bright room your mixes usually come out dull. To simulate a "dull" room one could put a shelf at 4k and dip 3dB on your master buss when you mix and then releasing/bypassing the shelf when you print. Probably not the room making the mixes dull if it is dull...more likely it is inconsistant in the low end response pushing you to make eq decisions that make the mix too heavy in low mids to lows.

[Jens Eklund]

Originally Posted by liquidrum

My 2cents here

If you have a dull room your mixes usually come out bright in the outside world...if you have a bright room your mixes usually come out dull. To simulate a "dull" room one could put a shelf at 4k and dip 3dB on your master buss when you mix and then releasing/bypassing the shelf when you print. Probably not the room making the mixes dull if it is dull...more likely it is inconsistant in the low end response pushing you to make eq decisions that make the mix too heavy in low mids to lows.

I think the reality if far more complicated than this. Also, what is the definition of “dull”? If the response in the sweet spot is made up of mostly direct sound (and only very low later arriving reflections) it might be described as “dull” by some, but it should give an accurate representation of what’s going on in the program material, but if there’s early (or strong late) reflections that has been “equalised” due to the use of thin porous absorbers on the reflective surfaces, the total response might give a false impression of the program material and thus result in incorrect decisions.

If an acoustic response model that rely on a termination of the ISD-gap is in use, on needs to make sure that the termination (and preferably the semi-diffuse decay as well) is not deprived of any frequency region, hence the reason to stay clear of thin velocity based absorbers.

[DanDan]

Lots of answers and still no question!


DD

[Jens Eklund]

Originally Posted by DanDan

Lots of answers and still no question!


DD

?

Originally Posted by jaroxtar

Hey guys I have a question.

...

ALL my mixes are sounding a bit dead/muffled/lacking in his and mids. And it occured to me (well a friend pointed out), is the fact that my entire floor is CARPET is killing the high-mids and highs. Is this the case? If so, I need to get this fixed immediately. Would I need to have actual wood flooring installed? Can I get away with wood laminate? I always thought its best to get the best "dead" sound you can get and then reverberate it ITB, thats why my room has wall to wall carpet, a rug, and heavy auralex on the wall as disffusion.. but it seems like that is the recipe for my disaster mixes? Any help would greatly be appreciated. Also, if I go the laminate route, any special foam or absorbtion I'd need underneath the laminate?

Looks like a question to me but perhaps I have a problem with the English language ...

[DanDan]

Are your mixes sounding dead/ muffled in your mix room or when you hear them in the outside world?

From the original questions text, I and others have no idea whether the mixes sound dull in the room or when played in the outside world.

my disaster mixes

That sounds like a disaster in the outside world to me.
Anyone that has experience of mixing has faced this translation problem every single day.

In any case the question is at least ambiguous. I find it amazing to see so many answers and now potentially bickering, while there is still with no valid question.
LOL.


DD

[liquidrum]

My question is:
Why do I love bacon so much when I know its so bad for me?

Mmmmm, bacon.

[DanDan]

Especially the slightly burnt fatty bits.....mmmm

DD