Glass between recording and mixing room

eagle007 · 4th September 2011

I'm building a small project studio and would need some advice on the needed glass.

The walls are build from 2xgypsum board (1,25mm), 1 vlax/wood board (20mm), 70mm Accoustix isolation, 43mm air, 70mm Accoustix isolation, 1xPan-terre gypsum/vlax bloard (32mm) (Acoustix Pan-terre gipsvezelplaat - Producten - Eurabo) This is making the wall 26cm thick.

Now for the glass I want to use Phonibel glass, but I'm a bit confused on the specs of the single layered and isolation glass. I found a (Dutch) site with a specs table: Homepage Glasdiscount.nl

I want to place 2 glass plates on an angle.

Is there any way to roughly calculate the acoustic isolation value when using 2 single layered glass plates with a few centimeters of air between them ?

Would it be much of an approvement using isolation glass (like the ST4250) instead ?

Or for example a single layered plate and an isolation plate. Depending on the used glass type, I have between 16 and 20 cm of air gap between them.

I have no idea what to use here as I cannot find any decent info on what the effects on sound isolation are in different setups. I would like to reach around 60dBA damping, preferably more.

gouge · 4th September 2011

why low e glass? it's expensive stuff. just get standard laminated glass.

each glass pane needs to match the stc of the leaf it sits in. also don't forget to isolate each leaf from the other and line the gap betwee nthe glass leafs with acoustic foam.

a good link.

WSDG - Glass Surfaces in the Acoustical Environment

SörenHjalmarsson · 4th September 2011

Window Glass Sizing Strategies - JH Brandt - Acoustics and Recording Studio Design - Comm100

MVH
Sören

avare · 4th September 2011

+1, or is it 2? for both links above. Check the prices in your region before taking the WSDG advice. In my part of the world, laminated is about 6$/ft² more than plate. As the acronym goes, YMMV.

Transparently,
Andre

eagle007 · 6th September 2011

Thanks for the links. After some more reading I found that I could do with 2 laminated windows.

Though I still have one pending issue. I mostly read that you would need asymmetric sizes. So for example an 1/4" and 3/8" glass plane laminated.

But so far I did not find any company where I can buy that. All laminated glass panels consist of 2 plates of the same thickness.

Does it have to be asymmetric ? And if so, why ?

Or could I also put a 1/4" | 1/4" plate on one side and a 3/8" | 3/8" on the other side ?

avare · 6th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle007

Thanks for the links. After some more reading I found that I could do with 2 laminated windows.

Though I still have one pending issue. I mostly read that you would need asymmetric sizes. So for example an 1/4" and 3/8" glass plane laminated.

But so far I did not find any company where I can buy that. All laminated glass panels consist of 2 plates of the same thickness.

Does it have to be asymmetric ? And if so, why ?

Or could I also put a 1/4" | 1/4" plate on one side and a 3/8" | 3/8" on the other side ?

The need for asymmetry in studio glass a large myth right now. Studio isolation is based on the LF being the controlling factor. With sufficient for effective LF isolation, the frequencies where the glass resonance is significant have more than sufficient isolation. With laminated glass, the internal compound dampens the coincidence frequency dip, so the need for asymmetry becomes a non-issue.

Not mentioned, but of greater importance is treating the sides of the window for absorption.

Seeing clearly now,
Andre

eagle007 · 6th September 2011

I got one response from a glass factory stating they cannot deliver asymmetric laminated glass as using different sizes on each side of the plastic makes that the glass will curve in time.

Sebg · 6th September 2011

"Asymmetry" in this context usually means that the two window sheets are different thicknesses. As you have found, a laminated glass sheet consists of two IDENTICAL thicknesses of glass with a sandwich layer inbetween.

As Andre has stated, it is not usually necessary to have two different thickness windows anyway. Just get two the same.

And make sure you put absorption in the reveals.

4th September 2011	#1
eagle007 Gear interested Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 12 Thread Starter	Glass between recording and mixing room I'm building a small project studio and would need some advice on the needed glass. The walls are build from 2xgypsum board (1,25mm), 1 vlax/wood board (20mm), 70mm Accoustix isolation, 43mm air, 70mm Accoustix isolation, 1xPan-terre gypsum/vlax bloard (32mm) (Acoustix Pan-terre gipsvezelplaat - Producten - Eurabo) This is making the wall 26cm thick. Now for the glass I want to use Phonibel glass, but I'm a bit confused on the specs of the single layered and isolation glass. I found a (Dutch) site with a specs table: Homepage Glasdiscount.nl I want to place 2 glass plates on an angle. Is there any way to roughly calculate the acoustic isolation value when using 2 single layered glass plates with a few centimeters of air between them ? Would it be much of an approvement using isolation glass (like the ST4250) instead ? Or for example a single layered plate and an isolation plate. Depending on the used glass type, I have between 16 and 20 cm of air gap between them. I have no idea what to use here as I cannot find any decent info on what the effects on sound isolation are in different setups. I would like to reach around 60dBA damping, preferably more.

4th September 2011	#2
gouge Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Brisbane Posts: 673	why low e glass? it's expensive stuff. just get standard laminated glass. each glass pane needs to match the stc of the leaf it sits in. also don't forget to isolate each leaf from the other and line the gap betwee nthe glass leafs with acoustic foam. a good link. WSDG - Glass Surfaces in the Acoustical Environment __________________ "if you play a bum note play it loud!"

4th September 2011	#3
SörenHjalmarsson Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2010 Location: Skövde, Sweden Posts: 940	Window Glass Sizing Strategies - JH Brandt - Acoustics and Recording Studio Design - Comm100 MVH Sören __________________ Sören Hjalmarsson (A JHBrandt Padawan) Desperado Studios www.desperadostudios.se Gös&Hjalmar Sweden *"If you want to make beautiful music, you must play the black and the white notes together"*

4th September 2011	#4
avare Lives for gear Joined: May 2004 Location: Hamilton, On Canada Posts: 3,699	+1, or is it 2? for both links above. Check the prices in your region before taking the WSDG advice. In my part of the world, laminated is about 6$/ft² more than plate. As the acronym goes, YMMV. Transparently, Andre __________________ Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction.

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6th September 2011	#5
eagle007 Gear interested Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 12 Thread Starter	Thanks for the links. After some more reading I found that I could do with 2 laminated windows. Though I still have one pending issue. I mostly read that you would need asymmetric sizes. So for example an 1/4" and 3/8" glass plane laminated. But so far I did not find any company where I can buy that. All laminated glass panels consist of 2 plates of the same thickness. Does it have to be asymmetric ? And if so, why ? Or could I also put a 1/4" \| 1/4" plate on one side and a 3/8" \| 3/8" on the other side ?

6th September 2011	#8
Sebg Gear addict Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 393	"Asymmetry" in this context usually means that the two window sheets are different thicknesses. As you have found, a laminated glass sheet consists of two IDENTICAL thicknesses of glass with a sandwich layer inbetween. As Andre has stated, it is not usually necessary to have two different thickness windows anyway. Just get two the same. And make sure you put absorption in the reveals.