Acoustic Treatment Propositions and advice

[o_black]

Hello,

I would like to begin acoustically treating my bedroom in order to help with both mixing and recording. As a starter, i planned on buying some Auralex 1'x1'x2" wedgies in order to help with diffusion as my room has sort of unusual shape. (I will provide a drawing of the layout of my room in this. Please not it is not to scale). I currently have two general plans, one of which is a temporary solution, the other is more or less permanent. The dimensions of the room will be provided very soon later on (i can't find a tape measurer at the moment) but my bedroom is a good size, and isnt small.

To start out with treating my room, i wish to do something that is more or less cost effective, with the option of expanding in order to improve my acoustic treatment gradually in the future.

My first option is very typical, and it is to put up some wedgies on the walls of which would benefit my set up the most. However, with the shape of my room and the size, and shape of the furniture, I'm not sure exactly how to start (and that's where you guys come in).

My second option is putting up a sort of temporary wall in the shape of one of those science display boards behind my control desk. I'd imagine that would greatly help with with alot of reflections bouncing off the back of my room and some from the sides. I figure that somehow i'd be able to store it in some sort of corner in some way without taking up a huge space of my room. Also, (of course) i plan on putting some wedgies on it as well. Also, due to the availability of dry wall sizes, i plan on elevating it on something somehow so that its top will be higher than my standing height.

In either case, i will be treating my entire room eventually with (hopefully if its fairly affordable) bass traps (i believe they should be placed in the corners). However, im sort of looking for a solution that will make very good improvements on my mixes immediately, and gradually increase overtime.

Thanks in advance!

Wedgies link: Long & McQuade - Auralex Wedgies 1'X1'X2

[Jens Eklund]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6507362-post2.html

[o_black]

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6507362-post2.html

sorry, as much as that thread will be helpful. I just dont know where to even begin. Plus my microphone i have doesnt have entirely the flattest EQ curve.

[Jens Eklund]

Originally Posted by o_black

Plus my microphone i have doesnt have entirely the flattest EQ curve.

It is still useful to at least, analyze your modal region and to get an estimate of your early reflections.

[DanDan]

The little foam wedges are not very powerful. If you could rise to a little simple DIY you could achieve quite an improvement with little money.
e.g. 100 mm of semi rigid fibre, wrapped in fabric, totally trumps thin small areas of foam. With the little info we have, I am guessing your speakers might be better off with their backs to the East Wall. Firing lengthways into the room. Then you would create a reflection free around around and above your listening position. 100mm fibre traps with 100mm of air behind (and above) them will yield wonders of clarity and real stereo imaging.
DD

[ritelec]

Hi Gentlemen,
Maybe this link should come up before a post is even made.
Mandatory reading I would think.
Read on o-black!


Acoustics/Treatment Reference Guide - LOOK HERE!


-rich

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by o_black

Hello,





In either case, i will be treating my entire room eventually with (hopefully if its fairly affordable). However, im sort of looking for a solution that will make very good improvements on my mixes immediately, and gradually increase overtime.

Wedgies link: Long & McQuade - Auralex Wedgies 1'X1'X2

The $$$ on materials starts to add up on treatment. Not to mention many hours (weeks and months) getting, making and installing the treatment. It will not be immediate.

Just fair warning.

-rich

[o_black]

Originally Posted by DanDan

The little foam wedges are not very powerful. If you could rise to a little simple DIY you could achieve quite an improvement with little money.
e.g. 100 mm of semi rigid fibre, wrapped in fabric, totally trumps thin small areas of foam. With the little info we have, I am guessing your speakers might be better off with their backs to the East Wall. Firing lengthways into the room. Then you would create a reflection free around around and above your listening position. 100mm fibre traps with 100mm of air behind (and above) them will yield wonders of clarity and real stereo imaging.
DD

thats the kind of info im talking about. funny, i was considering moving my desk to the spot you suggested, but before when i was deciding my listening spot, i figured the close walls would become problematic especially with the bass frequencies. also, you said 100mm fiber traps with 100mm of air between the back of the trap between the wall. from this description, i presume i wouldnt be tacking this right onto the walls to the south and north as well as above my position. Any insight how i might be able to do this without hanging them from the ceiling? (i dont trust my cielings strength at all)

[o_black]

Originally Posted by ritelec

The $$$ on materials starts to add up on treatment. Not to mention many hours (weeks and months) getting, making and installing the treatment. It will not be immediate.

Just fair warning.

-rich

yup, im ready to make an investment, just wishing to make a sure start where i can start hearing the difference

[o_black]

i found a great link that explains pretty much everything. I thought i'll post it up on here in case anyone else needs it

Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms

soo based on this article, a good starting place would be to create a reflection free zone using rigid fibre glass in areas where i'd see either loud speaker with a mirror on the wall? Not to mention designing bass traps.

[ritelec]

Thanks for the link o-black.

Good starting place would be to take a measurement or two to find out where your speakers will sound the best (move off center this way or that way, move to or from the front wall), so then you could determine where to place your traps for the RFZ.

For the left and right of the mix early reflections, it makes sense using the mirror technique, but you might also want to verify that position by doing alittle math, and performing a measurement also.

RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room

Go get-em killer!

[ritelec]

HERE, just alittle something else to fill your brain.

(copied from another post)

The roxul I used came 3"- 2x4 "eight" in a bundle. I used 2 per trap. $34 for 4 traps.

The lumber... People make a boxed frame with 1/2x4 and place the insulation inside. Then you should drill the sides out to have the sides of the insulation exposed, and paint or stain the wood.

Here's a link to make them from a 1x2 so you just create a stable frame for the insulation and it's all wrapped with material. (unless you feel like drilling out a bunch of holes and finishing the wood).
Personally, I used 2x2's. They're sturdier and give you more room for drilling (no splitting) and are like 30 cents more than a 1x2. Forget the 4 stabilizers that are shown in these directions and forget the glue. Use 2 screws in each corner. "Do" drill a pilot hole for each screw. Typically, a screw should go into the wood your screwing into 3/4". A 2x2 is 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 so you should use a 2 1/4 " screw. If you can only find them in 2 1/2, use them.

http://www.basstraps.net/DIY-BASS-TRAPS-MADE-EASY.pdf

The material. Look for a Walmart.They should have a fabric section. They have prints available for alittle more $$$, But they also have muslin from $1.20 to $6.00 a yard. I got the stuff that was $2.40 a yard. (and even the $1.70 the last go around).
It comes 45" wide (stretches to 48", which is good for the backing of 2 traps, and a 45" for the face wrap around) and as long (by the yard) as you want.

The muslin comes off white or bleached, which is fine for the back of the traps (and white for the ceiling cloud). If you decide not to go for a print on the fronts (more $$$) as I did, you can use the muslin and dye it as I did. You can get the dye on line for like $2.50 a bottle or at a supermarket for $4.80.
I suggest the liquid in a bottle, not the dissolving pill. You can dye 4 traps with a half a bottle, or dye 4 traps with a full bottle for a deeper color as I did. (read the directions on the sight, salt,hot water on stove, thermometer,stir for an hour).

http://www.ritdye.com/

[o_black]

Originally Posted by ritelec

HERE, just alittle something else to fill your brain.

(copied from another post)

The roxul I used came 3"- 2x4 "eight" in a bundle. I used 2 per trap. $34 for 4 traps.

The lumber... People make a boxed frame with 1/2x4 and place the insulation inside. Then you should drill the sides out to have the sides of the insulation exposed, and paint or stain the wood.

Here's a link to make them from a 1x2 so you just create a stable frame for the insulation and it's all wrapped with material. (unless you feel like drilling out a bunch of holes and finishing the wood).
Personally, I used 2x2's. They're sturdier and give you more room for drilling (no splitting) and are like 30 cents more than a 1x2. Forget the 4 stabilizers that are shown in these directions and forget the glue. Use 2 screws in each corner. "Do" drill a pilot hole for each screw. Typically, a screw should go into the wood your screwing into 3/4". A 2x2 is 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 so you should use a 2 1/4 " screw. If you can only find them in 2 1/2, use them.

http://www.basstraps.net/DIY-BASS-TRAPS-MADE-EASY.pdf

The material. Look for a Walmart.They should have a fabric section. They have prints available for alittle more $$$, But they also have muslin from $1.20 to $6.00 a yard. I got the stuff that was $2.40 a yard. (and even the $1.70 the last go around).
It comes 45" wide (stretches to 48", which is good for the backing of 2 traps, and a 45" for the face wrap around) and as long (by the yard) as you want.

The muslin comes off white or bleached, which is fine for the back of the traps (and white for the ceiling cloud). If you decide not to go for a print on the fronts (more $$$) as I did, you can use the muslin and dye it as I did. You can get the dye on line for like $2.50 a bottle or at a supermarket for $4.80.
I suggest the liquid in a bottle, not the dissolving pill. You can dye 4 traps with a half a bottle, or dye 4 traps with a full bottle for a deeper color as I did. (read the directions on the sight, salt,hot water on stove, thermometer,stir for an hour).

http://www.onlinefabricstore.net/sew...FYVx5QodXCh0vA

thanks for all of the links, especially the bass trap one. 2 questions though, to solve the early reflections, should i just modify the design of the bass trap somehow (since bass traps are mainly used in corners i think) to suit it more for mid to high frequencies? or is it a different fibre glass material altogether? Also, using these techniques that will help create an accurate listening room, will this also help when it comes to tracking vocals in the same room as well? i know most major studios have a seperate room for tracking, while some use their listening room for tracking. But, do they usually treat the rooms slightly different?

[ritelec]

Don't think you would physically modify it. I believe they would not be called "bass" traps but rather "broad band". If you have problems with LF's, you might consider Superchunks in the corners. Fluffy regular insulation deeper and wider straddling corners.

I think you could probably try to eat up bass in other places in the room, not just the corners. (and I heard they create full rooms outside of the room to eat up bass )

This chart shows factors to determine frequency your after.
I don't know how to use it but it looks impressive.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Will treating your room help with vocals? I would say yes.
(flutter echo, reflections).

Not knowing, but yes, larger studios have vocal booths/rooms. Maybe it's treated differently, and or maybe they're used to prevent disturbance from control room talk, clicking, and noise. But I've read alot of tracking also happens in the control room.

[o_black]

Okay guys, thanks for all the info. Nearly a month later i built broadband traps and hung them on my wall in certain locations surrounding my studio set up. The result with EQ i'll post below. It REALLY helped for resonance in my room. My next step would be to help with EQ, im not sure what to do though, so i was wondering if you guys can provide any insight as for next steps.

The first EQ is the EQ of the room before any treatment. The second is with mattresses along side the listening position without any formal treatment. And the 3rd is with room treatment involved.

[DanDan]

You need to drive one speaker only when measuring Frequency response.
REW will generate Eq parameters and illustrate what they should achieve.

DD

[o_black]

Originally Posted by DanDan

You need to drive one speaker only when measuring Frequency response.
REW will generate Eq parameters and illustrate what they should achieve.

DD

IC, i will redo the graph

[o_black]

Okay, here are the two graphs, first one being the left speaker, second one being the right speaker, and the third will be both imposed on each other

[DanDan]

Yup, still ugly yokes aren't they?
I feel a bit silly continually linking to one of two stickies at the top of this forum, but....http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...er-v2-1-a.html

Measurement can be kinda fascinating but doesn't really inform how to treat a room. Ethan's articles and the ones at GIK, johnlsayers.com etc. etc. all describe how to treat a room.

DD

[avare]

Originally Posted by DanDan

I feel a bit silly continually linking to one of two stickies at the top of this forum, but....http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...er-v2-1-a.html

It is not the first time, and it will not be the last. Your sentence reminds me of a class in technical writing where use of synomyms as opposed using the same word repeatedly was mentioned. The teacher's response that the goal of technical communication is accurate communication, not interesting reading. If a word is the correct one to use 10 times in a paragraph, then use the word ten times in the paragraph.

Fortunately for me, the teacher did not exclude creative spelling (typing erors).

Repeatedly good,
Andre

[boggy]

Originally Posted by avare

.... Your sentence reminds me of a class in technical writing where use of synomyms as opposed using the same word repeatedly was mentioned. The teacher's response that the goal of technical communication is accurate communication, not interesting reading. If a word is the correct one to use 10 times in a paragraph, then use the word ten times in the paragraph.

Fortunately for me, the teacher did not exclude creative spelling (typing erors).

Repeatedly good,
Andre

Andre, thank you very much for tip, I never had a "class in technical writing" even in my native language!



Best regards,

Bogic