Ceiling Issue!! How Water Pipe!! **pics**

[Wilk]

I am currently turning my basement area into a mixing/tracking area for recording. I have plenty post on here about the process so I won't waste time explaining the entire layout. But I do have a problem regarding the framing of the ceiling. What should I do about this damn hot water pipe running down the center of the ceiling (see pic)? My plan was to just box off the pipe and then bring the other side of the ceiling back up to it's original height. The kicker is this, how will that ceiling drop effect the sound quality? I was thinking it will cause resonance. Should I just run some foam down the "depth" part of the boxed-out pipe? I also thought about making mini base traps and just placing them down the "depth' part of the boxed out pipes (specifically lined up where the workstation will be). I hope I didn't loose you too much, but maybe the pics will help. What do do!?

P.S. I had planned on putting the workstation (comp, monitors, desk) along the wall that already has some dry wall up. (just to give you a feel of where my monitors will be)

[chazwood]

any way to leave them exposed?

[ritelec]

"any way to leave them exposed?"




Just to add, You may want to have a "real" plumber check out those steam/hot water pipes. They're probably good for another 50 years.....but long story short, I had an uncle (past away last year) with a large two family with steam heat. All the fittings (or rather the pipe threaded into the fittings) started failing and leaking (90 yr old house or so). Just a heads up.

Rich

Just one more thing, it's suggest to set up your room length wise not width wise.

All the best.

[Wilk]

well.....i guess i could leave them exsposed....but I really rather have them hidden. However I do get the feeling that boxing them off will just cause more sound issues. If I did leave them exsposed, do you think sound proofing the acutual pipe will REALLY be necessary, or will the effect it causes be barely noticeable?

This water pip sux! It's really in the way right now


If i make the stuido layout vertical instead of horiztonal, how would you suggest bass trapping that corner where the door is (left hand side)??

[Wilk]

Should the option of me making the studio horizontal be total dismissed? I really like that layout skecth better than the horizontal one. I do plan on having 2" oc703 on the first reflection points.

[lcressy]

For the corner bass trap where the door is, check this out. It mounts to the door and opens and closes with it.



YouTube - Sliding corner bass trap

[ritelec]

Nice design on that trap Icressy, thanks for the link!

Wilk....I am not an acoustician.....but I'm sure from reading around here, ALL the pro designers say to set the room up length (long) wise.

I don't think the pipes will have any effect on the sound (especially if you set the room up length wise) and they'll look good exposed. Alittle "commercial" touch. Don't lose sleep over not boxing them.

You may however, down the road, want to wrap something around them if they seem to be telegraphing (is that the right word) sound to the radiators or if they sweat.

The rooms looking good.....keep it up!

[Wilk]

Ritelec,

Thanks Man! Yea, this process is stressful, but will defintley be worth it in the long run. All that...Paying for recording time, mixing time, working with the engineers schedule is out the window once you have your own studio. Nothing left but "GO TIME". I'm definelty excitied about it.
Ok, so it's looking like it's going to be a vertical layout for sure. Did more research and I see why they say to set up your workstation long ways, oppose to parrell/horizontal. However, that does mean more sound panels will be needed. Making the room acoustically sound horizontal would have took up less panels. I'll keep the thread updated with pics

[jsipich]

Wilk - always fire the long way into a room.

Also - keep the pipe exposed - get some high-temp paint and paint that sucker black It will look cool.

Just tell people that pipe goes to your soul box - piping in all the souls you reap when people listen to your tunes. Muwahahahahaha!

[Sebg]

Does the pipe produce noise that may interfere with your mixing?

If so, wrap the pipe with your local equivalent of this stuff:

Acoustiflex PL Acoustic Pipe Lagging

Also, ensure that where the pipe passes through a sound-rated wall or ceiling, there is a clear gap around the pipe that gets caulked with a flexible sealant. May also want to check if any noise/vibration from the pipe is transferring via the pipe hangers (e.g. listen with your ear or a stethoscope near the ceiling point where the pipe hanger attaches).

[ritelec]

"or a stethoscope"


Thats Good!!

[Wilk]

Just double checking...so boxing out the pipes is a ABSOLUTE no, no??tutt

I want to have my cake & eat it too. Having the pipes exsposed seems SO TACKY to me. Plus i feel it just takes away from the character of the studio.

[666666]

How about MOVING the pipe (raise it up, or re-route it)? Call a specialist, it might not be that expensive. You might wind up spending more money and time trying to work around it. I'd at least investigate. I can't imagine it taking a professional more than a day to move the pipe. Though I suppose there is a possibility that it cannot be moved for some reason, it looks like a steam pipe, not sure if these pipes need to be pitched a certain way etc, that could be an issue. Ask a pro. It's possible that with a single day of work, that pipe might no longer be a headache. I had several heat pipes running along my basement ceiling (water, not steam), I was almost going to box them out, but then I decided to do some investigating, it turned out to be very cheap and easy to move them, now I have a nice, flat ceiling.

[Wilk]

You what...god advice 666666. Everyone just keeps telling me the price to get those hot water re-routed would be about $1500. WAaaaaaay out of my league at this point. But your right, maybe i need to have a pro come in and give me a REAL figure. Thanks. Seraching the web now

[666666]

Originally Posted by Wilk

You what...god advice 666666. Everyone just keeps telling me the price to get those hot water re-routed would be about $1500. WAaaaaaay out of my league at this point. But your right, maybe i need to have a pro come in and give me a REAL figure. Thanks. Seraching the web now

You're going to have to get someone in there to look at it. I wouldn't be surprised if you do get some estimates of about $1500. But you also might find a few people, especially in this economy, that will do it for less. But I'd imagine that you'd be looking at no less than $500 for sure, maybe between $500 - $1000 perhaps. Just a wild guess, definitely get some real estimates.

But consider a few things... if you box out the pipe, that's a decent amount of time, plus lumber, plus sheetrock, etc... that'll cost you easily several hundred $ when you factor materials and time.

Also consider, you probably want to do this job once and do it right. If you avoid moving the pipe just to save a few hundred bucks now, down the road when you really want that pipe out of there, you'll have to undo what you did and spend the money anyway. If you will be using this space into the future, you're going to really wish that you had spent the extra bucks now to just get it done right, once and for all.

But... I believe that steam pipes do need to be pitched a certain way, you can't just run `em any old way and at any old height, so, it's possible that this pipe moving job may indeed wind up costing way more than we might initially be imagining here. It may be a real challenge to re-route and retain the necessary heights / pitches. But... again, let a pro answer this.

Yeah, it sucks when pipes, columns, etc are in the way of a really great, open space. It seems rare to find a nice, wide open basement without some kind of interference from pipes and columns etc. These are some of the first things you should look for when scoping out a possible basement studio build.

For whatever its worth, my very first basement studio room (back about 20 years ago) had steam pipes hanging down like yours, we just let them run through the room, did not box them off, we put up a good double-layer sheetrock ceiling above them and sheetrock walls, sealed all the joints with flexible caulk (where the pipes popped through), the pipes never seemed to be a problem. But this particular room wasn't "ultra-soundproofed" anyway, it was just "partially-soundproofed".... was good enough for the situation. The pipes did not cause any issues with internal acoustics. As well, they never made enough noise to ruin any recording. And even though the pipes were probably there for 30 years at that point, they never leaked... ever. They did provide a little extra heat in the winter time which was a bonus.

[Wilk]

I set up an appointment with a Plumbing company to come take a look at it. He explained it to him as best as I could and from the explianation he came up with an estimated amount of about $700 to $800. But then again that was off of a phone call. have an appt set up for Sat morning. Anxious to see what he says, but I can already feel it's not going to be any cheaper than $800. If it were $500.....i MAY be able to manuver that, but above $500......IDK. This is f'n killing me . I knew it wasn't going to be easy, but there is ALWAYS an obstacle. That extra $500 or $800 could be used for sound treeatment, monitors, new interface, etc.

P.S. I already have all of the materitals to finsih constructing the basment. The cost of the materials it would take to box out the pipes only runs about...80 bucks, TOPS! (But i kno, i kno.....that not's really the angle I should take).

Worst thing is....my dad is probably at my house as we speak framming around the pipe. SMH

[ritelec]

Leave them exposed. They'll look fine. Boxing will eat up room and also may interfere acoustically. Seriously.
Or make the decision, box them, and it is what it is.
Plumbing..........you may be opening up a can of worms (mushroom effect). Don't touch them. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Easiest,simplest,BEST WAY, is to leave them exposed and move on.

Rich

[Phunkeman]

If it's a hot water supply insulating it and making it a long absorber would'nt hurt? I don't think. Create a plenum with rock wool and wire it on top to ceiling and under and both sides. Cover with material and kill two birds with one stone. Unless I'm missing something. It happens.

[ritelec]

Nice Plunkeman.
But probably too late.Probably already boxed. Time for a rip out. OR NOT.
judgement day, eg: rapture is three weeks away (5/21/11) ....... so as me...do what you did, enjoy what you did,and let it go.


rich

[Wilk]

Pipes not boxed yet, Did the rest of the ceiling and pondering on the drop for the pipes. I was sold on leaving them out, but then i had a long convo with one of the guys at ATS Acoustics and they seem to think that the drop will not have an effect from where my workstation will be placed...especially if I attack all early reflection points and include a sound cloud where/if necessary over the workstation. That combined with treating the back/rear wall and the side walls around it....I should be good to go. Any thoughts against what they said?