Do I "REALLY" need a sound cloud over my mixing area??

[Wilk]

I have an area I plan on using for mixing and tracking. The dimensions of the room are 20ft. x 14ft. As far as sound treatment, I plan on having 2" or 4" OC703 behind the montiors, in the corners as strabbled bass traps and on the back wall behind the mixing area. Do I REALLY need a sound cloud over the mixing area?? My celilings are only 7ft high, so I'm stuck in determining wheather or not a sound cloud will really make a big difference. Honestly, I'd rather not have to hang anything from the ceiling, but if it will make a world of difference, so be it. What to do guys?

[avare]

A cloud will not have a significant effect on your mixing.

Significantly,
Andre

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Wilk

I have an area I plan on using for mixing and tracking. The dimensions of the room are 20ft. x 14ft. As far as sound treatment, I plan on having 2" or 4" OC703 behind the montiors, in the corners as strabbled bass traps and on the back wall behind the mixing area. Do I REALLY need a sound cloud over the mixing area?? My celilings are only 7ft high, so I'm stuck in determining wheather or not a sound cloud will really make a big difference. Honestly, I'd rather not have to hang anything from the ceiling, but if it will make a world of difference, so be it. What to do guys?

The reflection on the ceiling (and the side walls) is VERY important to deal with. See the following to understand early reflection points.
What Are Early Reflection Points. Spotlight on Bob Ebeling - Reflection Studio. GIK Acoustics Articles and Newsletters.

[Wilk]

Glenn,
I read the link you posted. I am fimiliar with the mirror trick and the importance of absorbing the early reflection points, but in my circumstances (considering the dimensions of the room and height of the ceiling), do you feel that the absence of a sound clooud over the mixing area will be a major disadvantage when it comes to mixing? My though is...becuase the ceiling is only 7ft. high the reflection point above will be more of an issue, oppose to having a 9 or 10 ft. ceiling.

[Glenn Kuras]

The lower the ceiling the worse the reflection. Trust me you will notice a difference, in a good way.

[avare]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

The reflection on the ceiling (and the side walls) is VERY important to deal with. See the following to understand early reflection points.

I have fallen into the same trap in tha past of not reading exactly what was asked.

The OP asked about clouds over the mixing area. Not at first reflections points. Also, the OP did not detail by clouds absorbers or diffusers were meant. I ignored that part because it is not germaine to directly over the mixing area. If the question was about first reflection points, the answer would have obviously been yes.

Great link for people BTW. Sort of like everything that you do. thumbsup

Cloudily,
Andre

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by avare

I have fallen into the same trap in tha past of not reading exactly what was asked.

The OP asked about clouds over the mixing area. Not at first reflections points. Also, the OP did not detail by clouds absorbers or diffusers were meant. I ignored that part because it is not germaine to directly over the mixing area. If the question was about first reflection points, the answer would have obviously been yes.

Great link for people BTW. Sort of like everything that you do. thumbsup

Cloudily,
Andre

[Wilk]

Cloud (I have in mind) = 2" or 4" panels made of OC703. with a 2" inch gap from the ceiling positions directly over the chair for the mixing station.

Ok so, there will in fact be a significant difference in how you hear the mix/music with a cloud over the station. A differnece for the better.

[RKrizman]

I think common sense would say to put the ceiling absorbent midway between the chair and the monitors.

-R

[audiothings]

Of late people here have been speaking often about low density insulation being more effective in deeper traps and higher density insulation being more effective in shallower traps. Going by this and considering your very low ceiling, you might want to consider a 2" cloud of OC705 (96 Kg/m3) with a 2" air gap.

I think that a cloud will make a very significant difference to how your room sounds, and that you you will certainly appreciate the difference... but your original question is a bit nebulous. You don't "REALLY need" this stuff any more than a fish needs a bicycle.

[DanDan]

I have found Clouds to be one of the most sonically apparent treatments.
It may be easiest in your case to screw a frame directly to the ceiling. Go for as much depth as you can. 4-6 inches fibre is best but fibre with gap is very nearly as good.
Corners corners corners.
Absorption behind speakers is not a banker though. It depends...
See room treatment articles at GIK RealTraps Studiotips.com johnlsayers jhbrandts......All say corners, all say back wall, all say side and overhead reflection treatment.

DD

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by Wilk

Cloud (I have in mind) = 2" or 4" panels made of OC703. with a 2" inch gap from the ceiling positions directly over the chair for the mixing station.

Ok so, there will in fact be a significant difference in how you hear the mix/music with a cloud over the station. A differnece for the better.

Wilk,

That is not what was said - not at all.

What was said (Glenn, Andre. DanDan, etc) was that the first reflections off the ceiling are critical........

Unless the reflection points from the speakers are directly over your head - you do not need a cloud over your head........ over the board perhaps (again depending on the mirror) - but nothing that would make you feel claustrophobic.

Rod Gervais
Director of Education
GIK Acoustics
Gik Acoustics USA
Gik Acoustics Europe
Tel.(US)1.888.986.2789
Tel.(UK)+44(0)20.7558.8976

[gullfo]

to add on, the "cloud" doesn't necessarily need to be a single unit at a single height or angle so you can fit it as needed.

[Wilk]

Originally Posted by DanDan

I have found Clouds to be one of the most sonically apparent treatments.
It may be easiest in your case to screw a frame directly to the ceiling. Go for as much depth as you can. 4-6 inches fibre is best but fibre with gap is very nearly as good.
Corners corners corners.
Absorption behind speakers is not a banker though. It depends...
See room treatment articles at GIK RealTraps Studiotips.com johnlsayers jhbrandts......All say corners, all say back wall, all say side and overhead reflection treatment.

DD

Would it be more effective if with the air gap or without? I was under the impression the bass trap is more effective with a gap between it and the ceiling

[DanDan]

Depends. 1 inch fibre plus 5 inches of gap vs 5 inches of fibre plus one inch of gap. Or six inches of fibre or six inches of gap. Which would you take?
DD

[hossman777]

I built a cloud over my mix desk out of a 2x4 frame and R30 pink fluffy insulation, compressed down and covered in fabric. It made a huge difference in the clarity of my monitoring and led to better mixes. The panel is probably 8 or 9" thick and I have it hanging down about 8" or so from the ceiling.

2" of OC 705 right on the ceiling would probably be adequate since you don't have a lot of headroom. Use the corners of your room for your bass trapping.

[jhbrandt]

Originally Posted by Wilk

Would it be more effective if with the air gap or without? I was under the impression the bass trap is more effective with a gap between it and the ceiling

Wilk,

IF you have the room, an air gap will improve or extend the LF absorption. In other words, the air gap will cause the absorber to perform almost as though the full depth were filled with absorption material.
If you do not have the space, (7' is pretty low already), placing it directly on the ceiling is fine.

As Rod said before, you don't need a cloud over your head but only at reflections points. Download my 'First Reflection Calculator' from my publications page - it makes panel placement easy.

Cheers,
John

[Wilk]

Originally Posted by jhbrandt

Wilk,

IF you have the room, an air gap will improve or extend the LF absorption. In other words, the air gap will cause the absorber to perform almost as though the full depth were filled with absorption material.
If you do not have the space, (7' is pretty low already), placing it directly on the ceiling is fine.

As Rod said before, you don't need a cloud over your head but only at reflections points. Download my 'First Reflection Calculator' from my publications page - it makes panel placement easy.

Cheers,
John

Thanks! Checking out the link now.