Building a Desk

[headoned]

Does anyone have any plans I can use to build a computer desk for my studio?
pre-built studio desks seem way too over priced!

[betserd]

I have designed this one and build it from MDF (painted) + ply stained top. It is a great size and it works like a charm, unlike all the thinkgs you buy off the shelf.

I extended the middle section like it is on the drwaing which makes it much easier to putt TFT / mixer.
Just disable the layers Outboard Gear (actually not all mine and accessoires and you should have the bare desk)

[betserd]

there should also be an additional desk support at the end of the extension, the ones you can buy off the shelf at any DIY store..

[headoned]

thanks! that's great!

[jhbrandt]

You guys should sign up for my newsletter. The last issue dealt with desks.

Betserd, the desk you have drawn is nice for working but not for listening. The surface is flat and will cause destructive interference - it's also a very large surface. If you must have a large surface like that, you will need to tilt it toward the listener to present less surface area to impinging sound waves & cause their reflections to shoot below the listener's ears. -Lower the speaker height and push them further away from the listener. -- Ideally the speakers will be at ear height and the tilt of the desk will point the desk surface at the acoustic center of the speakers.

BTW, I do custom desk design.

Cheers,
John

[kenoah]

I am also in the process of looking for a desk. They are sooooo expensive! Right now I'm using a glass L shaped business desk lol horrible to monitor on since it's made of glass.

Ima take a look at your blueprint when I get to a computer, it won't let me open it up on my iPod.

Interesting aha the guy said about the desk being flat, when I build mine, how much of an angle should it have and can you post pictures? Once I find a concrete design I'ma start building, hopefully within the next 2 weeks.

Thanx!
Kenoah
Pynkhouse.com

[betserd]

Originally Posted by jhbrandt

You guys should sign up for my newsletter. The last issue dealt with desks.

Betserd, the desk you have drawn is nice for working but not for listening. The surface is flat and will cause destructive interference - it's also a very large surface. If you must have a large surface like that, you will need to tilt it toward the listener to present less surface area to impinging sound waves & cause their reflections to shoot below the listener's ears. -Lower the speaker height and push them further away from the listener. -- Ideally the speakers will be at ear height and the tilt of the desk will point the desk surface at the acoustic center of the speakers.

BTW, I do custom desk design.

Cheers,
John

Hi John,

been thinking about this and wonderring.. If you tilt the desk is than not the only thing you're doing shift the reflectionpoint on the desk more to the rear (that is if you tilt it towards you). Just wondering what the theory is behind that?

[neuro]

as i understand this, and as John already explained, the point in tilting the desk is to direct the specular reflection away from (=below) the operator's ears.
(the theory behind that would be the laws of reflection ?)

[betserd]

Originally Posted by neuro

as i understand this, and as John already explained, the point in tilting the desk is to direct the specular reflection away from (=below) the operator's ears.
(the theory behind that would be the laws of reflection ?)

Neuro, what I mean is in the picture, explains it a lot better I think. Just a quick drawing, angles etc are not correct, but should explain what I mean.

[SörenHjalmarsson]

Originally Posted by betserd

Hi John,

been thinking about this and wonderring.. If you tilt the desk is than not the only thing you're doing shift the reflectionpoint on the desk more to the rear (that is if you tilt it towards you). Just wondering what the theory is behind that?

Originally Posted by betserd

Neuro, what I mean is in the picture, explains it a lot better I think. Just a quick drawing, angles etc are not correct, but should explain what I mean.

betserd,

The reflection point in your drawing didn't shift because you tilted the desk, it did so because you changed the rules (the vertical dispersion of the speakers) i.e. the reflection point will not move closer to the speakers because you tilt the desk in front of them....

It would be very hard to achieve a Reflection Free Zone if your speakers magically changed the reflection points everytime you try to put up a reflection panel...

Also... the speakers would be better placed on stands behind the table surface, rather than above it like that....


Sören

[kenoah]

Are there any free blueprints on the web that we can use to build our own desks? I have a bunch of equipment sitting on a L shaped glass table. But I would really love to build a cool desk from a blue print this summer.

[SAC]

In response to both the diagram and to Soren's comments, the speakers are to be relocated onto speaker stands positioned several feet behind the work surface.

And then the work surface is minimized and tilted.

Thus the direct energy will not be incident with the work surface in such a manner as to be reflected to the listening position.

If the speakers remain at the bridge position, you will have problems.

So please folks: get rid of the megalith work surfaces! Keep ONLY that which is absolutely NECESSARY at the work surface.

And put ALL of the 'necessary' toys not used to specifically MIX in an additional rack placed to the sides. That means keyboards, lava lamps, voodoo icons, locks of Robert Plant's hair, Chicken McNuggets, and the 1000's of other 'very important' stuff not used directly to mix go SOMEPLACE/ANYPLACE else.


But hey, does anyone have plans for a work desk????? Get a TV tray table. Seriously!

[drtechno]

Originally Posted by SAC

In response to both the diagram and to Soren's comments, the speakers are to be relocated onto speaker stands positioned several feet behind the work surface.


So please folks: get rid of the megalith work surfaces! Keep ONLY that which is absolutely NECESSARY at the work surface.

And put ALL of the 'necessary' toys not used to specifically MIX in an additional rack placed to the sides. That means keyboards, lava lamps, voodoo icons, locks of Robert Plant's hair, Chicken McNuggets, and the 1000's of other 'very important' stuff not used directly to mix go SOMEPLACE/ANYPLACE else.


But hey, does anyone have plans for a work desk????? Get a TV tray table. Seriously!

you also forgot to tell them not to use a bong, only a one-hitter. The bong's tube can resonate and cause standing waves in the water. And its less of a water mess potential....

[SörenHjalmarsson]

Originally Posted by kenoah

Are there any free blueprints on the web that we can use to build our own desks? I have a bunch of equipment sitting on a L shaped glass table. But I would really love to build a cool desk from a blue print this summer.

kenoah,

Finding desk blueprints that will completely match your needs will be very hard indeed...

If you have alot of equipment that you absolutely have to place in front of you, the design needs to be planned carefully and specifically so as to avoid early reflections from your work surface. (speaker hight, dispersion and placement along with desk angle, size, placement, hight and floor reflections are all taken into account...)

Lastly you take measurements and make necessary adjustments (if needed) until you are satisfied with the result....

As has allready been pointed out.... if you have a small set-up you should strive to have only a small desk in front of you to hold the necessities and place the speakers and computer screens on individual stands behind the work surface.

Like Mr Brandt says in his newsletter: "the best work surface is NO work surface." and "Zero desk area would be the best"

Following this line of thought... the mastering engineers Bob katz and Tomas "Plec" Johansson (at Panic room mastering here in skövde) have dispensed with a work desk alltogether and merely have a rack (housing the necessities) in front of the mix position.

RealTraps - Bob Katz review
YouTube - Black Noise Orchestra - Mastering, Album

Pictures of a solution for the computer based set-up can be found here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6194287-post7.html


Sören

[kenoah]

Haha thought you might want a quik laugh so I took a pic of my crazy setup

What you can't see is my audient black bb4 off to the side with my laptop

Dunno how I could re arrange any of this stuff
But I'ma give it some thought

[mhch]

Being in the process of designing my own home studio & music room furniture, above Sören's post and its referenced images led me to create a sketchup model for the design of a minimal mixing desk with dual displays.

Please only consider the overall structure/idea, specially how displays are setup, and ignore building details (notably keyboard should rather be on a hidden sliding tray, while angled desktop should accomodate a mixer instead).

Does this appear as a reasonable design ? Yes a single display system would be even smaller.

Comments and criticisms welcome

[Max Dread]

I like the look of it but wonder whether you would wind up with a bad neck from looking down at such an angle....

Would be interesting to hear from others who might have such low screens, and whether they have neck ache?

[neuro]

yes, you will likely be moving your head left and right and up and down all the time.. that doesn't seem very functional and ergonomic.

[T1M0N]

Perhaps something like those could be helpful:






You can keep the screens out of the way when critical listening is important and get them closer for editing. I've read it's more relaxing and healthy for longer on-screen-work if you change the position from time to time.

[SAC]

Such monitor mounts are nearly always elegant solutions when properly employed within the larger context.

Look folks, don't get sidetracked from the fundamental issue and instead obsess over a secondary feature that is in large measure an invented issue.

Yes "invented", as after all, its not like you AREN'T ALREADY scanning from monitor to keyboard to work surface to performer (if tracking) or some other source ANYWAY in the original configuration!

[mhch]

My above sketch is no more than a dual display variant of the one shown in the attached picture, so this might well be usable enough specially when focus is on careful listening while mostly using a mixer or a MIDI controller

I know Ergotron devices, but I'm afraid their use could make a SMALL desk out of balance and tilting (unless desk is anchored to the ground, but my initial idea is to have this one on casters).

As I said in another thread, another more "typical" computer desk configuration would be used for more typical computer work, creating scores, writing documents, whatever.

Also note that this display configuration isn't too different from the one of a laptop resting on one's knees (an easy experiment to perform).

[neuro]

that's not an invented issue in my case cause i do have neck problems.

feeling good and having a relaxed posture seems kind of important to me. this should be taken into account in 'studio design' maybe as much as acoustics.

even unconsciously, i always find myself adjusting my posture to have the best stereo illusion, so imo optimal listening and viewing should take place at exactly the same place, and that should be confortable. (i'm talking about DAW work with nearfields here, not tracking or mixing on a large console in a real studio.. nor mastering).

if you know well where things are located, taking a quick glance at the keyboard or work surface once in a while is very different than constantly switching from A (listening) to B (looking at the main display).

NB i'm not saying you should never ever move your head when doing critical listening..

[SAC]

What is so freaking difficult about placing a monitor far enough out of the direct signal path that it does not adversely impinge upon the direct signal, create shadowing or diffraction effects and still allows one to see it?

And if you have to check a tracking room to see that aliens have not abducted the performer, you can always go with a side-oriented window.

And as you already have to shift your sight to look at the keyboard, screen and any other associated equipment, the problem of movement already exists. (Oh my, but where will I position my Chicken McNuggets???)

I now know why, and for whom, Velcro fastening' tennis shoes were developed. Now they just need Bono and Bieber to endorse them...

[mhch]

Originally Posted by SAC

What is so freaking difficult about placing a monitor far enough out of the direct signal path that it does not adversely impinge upon the direct signal, create shadowing or diffraction effects and still allows one to see it?

Actually may use BOTH far displays located in between the speakers and near displays as shown in my above sketch

What about using binoculars or a telescope to look at far located displays, although this might create diffraction and some extra neck & eyes ache

Originally Posted by SAC

(Oh my, but where will I position my Chicken McNuggets???)

I now know why, and for whom, Velcro fastening' tennis shoes were developed. Now they just need Bono and Bieber to endorse them...

[Magic979]

Originally Posted by T1M0N

Perhaps something like those could be helpful:






You can keep the screens out of the way when critical listening is important and get them closer for editing. I've read it's more relaxing and healthy for longer on-screen-work if you change the position from time to time.

Where online can i find these lcd stands

[mhch]

What about running a Web search ....

If in the US

Newegg.com - Computer Hardware,Ergotron,Monitor Accessories

[SörenHjalmarsson]

Originally Posted by mhch

Being in the process of designing my own home studio & music room furniture, above Sören's post and its referenced images led me to create a sketchup model for the design of a minimal mixing desk with dual displays.

Does this appear as a reasonable design ? Yes a single display system would be even smaller.

Comments and criticisms welcome

mhch,

You are on the right track! thumbsup Even better (of course) would be if you could have the screens on individual stands 'in line' with the speakers (away from the path between you and the speakers) but i quite understand if that isn't practical.

What you could do is to have them like in you drawing, but instead of building them into the desk, you have them lowered on separate stands in front of you - this has two advantages:

1. it enables you the possibility to move both the desk and screens individually and make adjustments in order to achieve acceptance.

2. Your desk width isn't 'locked' to the width of your screens. but you can make it as small as possible, so as to hold only your computer keyboard or mixer....

Originally Posted by Max Dread

I like the look of it but wonder whether you would wind up with a bad neck from looking down at such an angle...

Originally Posted by neuro

yes, you will likely be moving your head left and right and up and down all the time.. that doesn't seem very functional and ergonomic.

I dont see the problem here guys... this is a very common ergonomical set-up wich has been utilized and tried for a LONG time, not only in the music industry....

Looking down at the screens in this manner your neck is in a very natural and relaxed position... looking left and right at dual screens is not a problem either, remember, if you work with a big consol this would be your only set-up choise... (looking down at the mixer, left and right)

Another advantage of not having EVERYTHING in front of you is that you occasionally have to move your chair (and neck position) to tweak your midi keyboard and rack mounted equipment etc.,

Sören

[mhch]

Originally Posted by SörenHjalmarsson

mhch,

You are on the right track! thumbsup Even better (of course) would be if you could have the speakers on individual stand 'in line' with the speakers (away from the path between you and the speakers) but i quite understand if that isn't practical.

What you could do is to have them like in you drawing, but instead of building them into the desk, you have them on separate stands - this has two advantages:

1. it enables you the possibility to move both the desk and screens individually and make adjustments to achieve acceptance.

2. Your desk width isn't 'locked' to the width of your screens. but you can make it as small as possible, so as to hold only your computer keyboard or mixer....






I dont see the problem here guys... this is a very common ergonomical set-up wich has been utilized and tried for a LONG time, not only in the music industry....

Looking down at the screens in this manner, your neck is in a very natural and relaxed position... looking left and right at dual screens is not a problem either, remember, if you work with a big consol this would be your only set-up choise... (looking down at the mixer, left and right)

Another advantage of not having EVERYTHING in front of you, is that you have to move your chair (and neck position) occasionally, to tweak your midi keyboard and rack mounted equipment etc.,

Sören

You probably meant monitors in between the speakers here above.

But yes I agree, best is to have displays on a separate moveable, height and angle ajustable stand, as well as a small keyboard/mixer stand. That idea already came to my mind during last night !

The only issue is to design the display stand so that it never tilts, whatever angle and position of the displays are, due to their weight.

For that purpose, I'm considering to use my existing "computer box" as a base, which contains a sound proofed laptop, a heavy printer, & the audio interface. Side and not negligible benefit: less cables around since displays are next to the computer. Keyboard/mouse are wireless

More sketchup work to come this week As Avare says, 90% of the work is in the design, if not more.

[kenoah]

Cool pic of the monitors.
I wanted to build something nice, elegant and expensive looking.

Looks like I can just get a chair and table at a garage sale and put my thousand(s) dollar equipment on it.

[SörenHjalmarsson]

Originally Posted by mhch

You probably meant monitors in between the speakers here above.

Yes i did. thumbsup You quoted me before i changed it!

Originally Posted by kenoah

Looks like I can just get a chair and table at a garage sale and put my thousand(s) dollar equipment on it.

Yes you can!! A big 'cool' desk that looks to be about as expensive as the equipment, isn't necessarily such a 'cool' idea.


Sören