E.rOk.stA
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#1
10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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Check my room

I'm in the process of building my mix room and a live room. The wall you see in black has a cinder block wall behind it. I framed the wall with 2x4's flush at the bottom and it leans in to 16" at the top. I insulated it with 3 1/2 pink insulation (no facing) at the bottom but layered it so it's entirely stuffed to the top. I then covered it with speaker cloth. Is there any thing I could do better or is this wall sweet?

The 2nd picture is taken from the live room in so you can get a perspective. The ceiling is 2x10 typical beams and the floor is concrete. I planned on insulating the ceiling 'cause I live upstairs. What else should I do to it?

BTW, those speakers are for a 2nd reference. I have nearfields that will be sitting on my desk 1/3 of the room back.
#2
10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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isolation?

E,

I don't think I understand. - You have between the CR and live room a concrete block wall & then you have tilted treatment? The slant of the treatment wall will make no difference in it's effect. The absorption coefficient of the material and its distance from a hard surface are the most important factors.

If you insulate the ceiling because you live upstairs.. This will keep the heat that you create in the studio rooms from going upstairs - yes. But it will not keep the sound from going upstairs.

Also note that you are going to have serious SBIR problems with your speaker mounting which is not flush mounting or soffit mounting. more here.

Cheers,
John
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10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
E,

I don't think I understand. - You have between the CR and live room a concrete block wall & then you have tilted treatment? The slant of the treatment wall will make no difference in it's effect. The absorption coefficient of the material and its distance from a hard surface are the most important factors.

If you insulate the ceiling because you live upstairs.. This will keep the heat that you create in the studio rooms from going upstairs - yes. But it will not keep the sound from going upstairs.

Also note that you are going to have serious SBIR problems with your speaker mounting which is not flush mounting or soffit mounting. more here.

Cheers,
John
Ok, as for the ceiling, I don't care so much if sound gets upstairs. I just want the room to sound good. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should finish it?

This wall separates a basement from a garage so it is cinder block. I thought tilting the absorbing wall would just help break up the parallel typical basement rectangle room. Like I said, I'm using nearfields most of the time. Those speakers are just for a quick check now and then because of how detailed they are.


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10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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Absorptive ceiling is usually very good as you do not want reflections from above.

Small room acoustics - home studio style; You need as much trapping as you can get, but that often results in a room that is too dead. I recommend having reflective surfaces in the front of the control room - out of reach of the speakers' radiation... creating an RFZ.

The rest of the room can then be trapped sufficiently and diffusion added on the rear wall or in the corners if it is distant from the operator (>10').

The only way to successfully 'break up' modal activity and send it into the oblique would be the approach suggested by Geddes, which is a double tilt - vertical and horizontal. But this must be done with a heavy, solid, massive wall. - and it is not done in control rooms due to symmetry issues.

So, your front wall really does nothing but absorption. It's fine & it doesn't hurt anything except maybe your wallet and the time it took.
--I recommend placing some wood slats, running vertically, over it to improve diffusion in the front and give some 'life' to the room, once you have all the treatment in.

What are your room dimensions?

Cheers,
John
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10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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16'x11'x8' As for the wood slats, how many and should the widths vary?


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10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
16'x11'x8' As for the wood slats, how many and should the widths vary?
That depends on what you want to accomplish. Search on slats to get an idea of what's involved. It's not a simple matter.
E.rOk.stA
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10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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Originally Posted by PaulP View Post
That depends on what you want to accomplish. Search on slats to get an idea of what's involved. It's not a simple matter.
I'll search but I find it hard to believe that it could really be that difficult.

Thank you, John for the time taken to answer my questions BTW. I realize you probably have better things to do.
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10th February 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
I'll search but I find it hard to believe that it could really be that difficult.
They're not difficult to make or to install. It how you position them that'll twist your mind in a knot.

It's like the quote of some famous architect speaking of St. Paul's cathedral in London (paraphrasing) "sure I could build something like that, if I but knew where to lay the first stone".
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10th February 2011
Old 10th February 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP View Post
They're not difficult to make or to install. It how you position them that'll twist your mind in a knot.

It's like the quote of some famous architect speaking of St. Paul's cathedral in London (paraphrasing) "sure I could build something like that, if I but knew where to lay the first stone".
Lol! I getcha'.
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11th February 2011
Old 11th February 2011
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Actually, if the slats are not in an area where they will reflect the direct sound of the speakers, you have no worries. 3/4" by 2" slats work great. Use an average of 3/4" spacing between them. Due to this random gap width and hard wall depth variations, the slat wall will not be tuned and target the lower frequencies - which is what you want here. Edge diffraction from these will give a nice diffuse atmosphere to the operator, but will not affect the source material.

Trap the rear wall very well.

Cheers,
John
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11th February 2011
Old 11th February 2011
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Ok, great! Thanks. No diffusor on the rear wall?
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11th February 2011
Old 11th February 2011
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How far is that back wall from the operator?

- John
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#13
11th February 2011
Old 11th February 2011
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It is about 8'.


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11th February 2011
Old 11th February 2011
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Not bad... You could probably get away with a QRD back there as long as it is a fine high-prime. Or better yet build a large PRD -- prime 157 or higher.

Cheers,
John
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12th February 2011
Old 12th February 2011
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Ok, I'll give it a shot. I'll post flicks when it's done.


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#16
15th February 2011
Old 15th February 2011
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What's the lowest and highest frequencies I should use to calculate my well depths for my prd?


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16th February 2011
Old 16th February 2011
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Try this:

Diffuser recommendation for back wall (if desired)
HF cut-off = 3033.90Hz
well width = 2.23 inches - 5.66 cm
LF cut-off = 284.43Hz
diffuser depth = 23.77 inches - 60.39 cm

The above works for a single 2D PRD. If you plan to use a finned QRD, I would recommend a diffractal type.

Cheers,
John
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#18
18th February 2011
Old 18th February 2011
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Man! I bought 3 green 4'x8'x2" polystyrene boards at Lowe's and cut them all up to the pieces I needed on a table saw. It was alot of work. I'm glueing them to 2'x2' pieces of pegboard 'cause it's thin and strong. I upholster for a living so I already have this really good glue that I spray called K-grip. I use a compressor and paint gun. This stuff really works great. I almost have them done. I'll post some pictures of the build tomorrow.

This is the 2d prd btw.

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E.rOk.stA
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#19
21st February 2011
Old 21st February 2011
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Here's some pics. They're backwards so the first one is 5 of the 6 lined up along the wall. These take awhile to make! I'm making the last one tomorrow then I'll paint, mount and frame them. I'll do 3 across and 2 high, that'll be 6'x4'. The wall's only 11' long and the bass traps will come in 24" off of each corner so most of the wall will be covered.



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21st February 2011
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Very nice.

- John
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#21
22nd February 2011
Old 22nd February 2011
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Alright, here's the thing set together just leaning against the wall. I gotta paint it, frame it and mount it yet but all in all, it turned out really nice.
#22
22nd February 2011
Old 22nd February 2011
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Very, very nice.

Now tell the folks here how much time it took & how much it cost, please.

I'll bet it was easier and cheaper than most people think it might be. This is an example of a DIY PRD done right. - The only thing that I would recommend changing is the repetition. But I think that the lobbing that you may experience from the repeats will be inconsequential.

Great job. Hint: use latex gloss paint and spray it on.

Cheers,
John
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#23
22nd February 2011
Old 22nd February 2011
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Ok, it cost about $130 US and took about 6 hours total. If I would've bought skylines, for example, it would've cost $1200 plus? and the wells wouldn't have been as deep.

John, I haven't fastened these yet. Should I rotate them so it's less repetitive?


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23rd February 2011
Old 23rd February 2011
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That definitely sounds reasonable and I have a feeling I'll be diving into that project once my room has enough porous absorption.
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23rd February 2011
Old 23rd February 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
John, I haven't fastened these yet. Should I rotate them so it's less repetitive?
Yes.
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