I need help with this (less than ideal) room! (pics included)

Dutch Dave · 29th January 2011

I just moved my humble homestudio to a new room. It's actually the living room/ studio of this apartment I'm living in. I'm willing to improve the acoustics though, especially for mixing and recording vocals. I've already read a quite a bit about acoustics (especially on realtraps.com) but I'm wondering what you guys would advice for this particular room:

I'm planning on doing a room test one of these days, so I'll post the results soon.

Thanks in advance!

PaulP · 29th January 2011

First of all you gotta turn your desk around. You don't want a wall at your back. Then center it to the width of the room. Then move it forward and back until you find the spot that sounds best.

Read three days worth of threads here and learn what you can do to improve your acoustics. Download Room EQ Wizard (free) and run some tests.

You won't get good acoustics overnight. If you really want to do a good job you'll have to spend some time learning, building/buying and trying things out.

jhbrandt · 30th January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulP

First of all you gotta turn your desk around. You don't want a wall at your back. Then center it to the width of the room. Then move it forward and back until you find the spot that sounds best.

Read three days worth of threads here and learn what you can do to improve your acoustics. Download Room EQ Wizard (free) and run some tests.

You won't get good acoustics overnight. If you really want to do a good job you'll have to spend some time learning, building/buying and trying things out.

+1 Well Said!

Cheers,
John

Dutch Dave · 30th January 2011

I hear what you guys are saying. Please don't take think I'm an arrogant smartass, but turning around the desk is not really an option because of how I use the living room and how I use the computer also as a place to study.
I can however move the desk more the centre (left-right).

Can't I try to make it work with the desk facing this way, using bass traps and absobers/diffusers? Is that realistic?

PaulP · 30th January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Dave

I hear what you guys are saying. Please don't take think I'm an arrogant smartass, but turning around the desk is not really an option because of how I use the living room and how I use the computer also as a place to study.
I can however move the desk more the centre (left-right).

It depends on what you want. If it's for "for mixing and recording vocals" then I think you'd want the best acoustics possible for listening to the recording, otherwise what's the point ? If you look at pictures of other people's control rooms you'll rarely see a wall right behind the listening spot. There must be a reason for this.

Also recording singing and mixing are two very different things. They would benefit from different acoustic treatment. One way to achieve this is to mount some of the treatment on stands and move it around depending on what you're up to.

spiderman · 30th January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Dave

I hear what you guys are saying. Please don't take think I'm an arrogant smartass, but turning around the desk is not really an option because of how I use the living room and how I use the computer also as a place to study.
I can however move the desk more the centre (left-right).

Can't I try to make it work with the desk facing this way, using bass traps and absobers/diffusers? Is that realistic?

Don't waste your time. If you need to study and live in the room, it's not going to function well as "a studio."

The realistic solution... Get some amazing headphones and an audiophile quality headphone amp.

Dutch Dave · 31st January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulP

It depends on what you want. If it's for "for mixing and recording vocals" then I think you'd want the best acoustics possible for listening to the recording, otherwise what's the point ? If you look at pictures of other people's control rooms you'll rarely see a wall right behind the listening spot. There must be a reason for this.

I know there's a reason for it, but this is what I gotta work with and I want to make it as good as possible.

Quote:

Also recording singing and mixing are two very different things. They would benefit from different acoustic treatment. One way to achieve this is to mount some of the treatment on stands and move it around depending on what you're up to.

Yup, that's what I'm planning to do.

Dutch Dave · 31st January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman

Don't waste your time. If you need to study and live in the room, it's not going to function well as "a studio."

The realistic solution... Get some amazing headphones and an audiophile quality headphone amp.

I have AKG K 240 headhpones, which I think is quite good. I use my headphones a lot when mixing, but I always want to use my monitors.

The question whether this room I have can be reasonably improved.

spiderman · 31st January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Dave

The question whether this room I have can be reasonably improved.

I think it could be improved a lot but only if you are willing to make the changes necessary. A few posts ago someone told you to reposition your desk. This is excellent advice but you're not willing to make the changes because of other room functions. So the room will not be "reasonable improved" because you don't want to do what's necessary. So... sell your speakers and buy some better headphones.

Maybe some Sennheiser HD800's?

SörenHjalmarsson · 31st January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman

I think it could be improved a lot but only if you are willing to make the changes necessary.

+1

Cheers,

Dutch Dave · 31st January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman

I think it could be improved a lot but only if you are willing to make the changes necessary. A few posts ago someone told you to reposition your desk. This is excellent advice but you're not willing to make the changes because of other room functions.

I can't afford to have a separate room for my homestudio, so this is all I can do concerning positioning. Can't help it.

The question is, if the sound can be improved with this positioning? Bass traps in the corners, absorption panels left and right. Is it any use?

johndykstra · 31st January 2011

Dave,

The #1 improvement is by allowing more space/air between the speakers and the wall behind your head. The intensity of reflections off that wall will be so loud, and so quick that they are going to create a huge blur in your ears. Yes bass traps and absorbers will help... but they will take you a lot further if you can do as been suggested. Your best bet assuming you REALLY can't move, would be to build a large (whole wall) thick (upwards of 1' +) bass trap for that really close back wall.

Don't forget ceiling and wall reflection points

Abandon any idea of diffusion.

SörenHjalmarsson · 1st February 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Dave,

The #1 improvement is by allowing more space/air between the speakers and the wall behind your head. The intensity of reflections off that wall will be so loud, and so quick that they are going to create a huge blur in your ears. Yes bass traps and absorbers will help... but they will take you a lot further if you can do as been suggested. Your best bet assuming you REALLY can't move, would be to build a large (whole wall) thick (upwards of 1' +) bass trap for that really close back wall.

Don't forget ceiling and wall reflection points

Abandon any idea of diffusion.

+1

Cheers,

spiderman · 3rd February 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Dave

The question is, if the sound can be improved with this positioning? Bass traps in the corners, absorption panels left and right. Is it any use?

No. There is no use. If you can't be bothered to spin your desk around, sell your speakers and buy better headphones.

scepstral · 4th February 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman

No. There is no use. If you can't be bothered to spin your desk around, sell your speakers and buy better headphones.

truth

Glenn Kuras · 4th February 2011

Hey Dave,
You are getting some good advice, but you will not be the first nor the last person out there that has a set up that can not be moved. If you can not move then that is that. Do not sell your monitors or stop recording, but work with what you have and enjoy it.
For your set up I would focus on panels left, right and over head for the early reflection points (What Are Early Reflection Points. Spotlight on Bob Ebeling - Reflection Studio. GIK Acoustics Articles and Newsletters.), bass trapping in the corners behind you with THICK panels directly behind where your sit. It will not be perfect but will be 1000 times better then what you have now.

johndykstra · 4th February 2011

Don't stop at back corners. Seriously, entire back wall... at LEAST waist height and up. The back wall is just as bad a reflection point as the side walls at this distance.

Dutch Dave · 5th February 2011

John and Glenn, thanks so much! That's the advice I was looking for. Soms people think I'm too stubborn or lazy to turn the desk around. That's not the case.
But, thanks again, I'll work on it!

johndykstra · 5th February 2011

Well, you are stubborn. Rotating 180 degrees and moving closer to the back wall... No legitimate reason you cant do that. I guessing you like to watch the tele while on your computer.

So really it's a matter of your priorities. And yours are elsewhere. Which is fine.

spiderman · 6th February 2011

Quote:

Soms people think I'm too stubborn or lazy to turn the desk around. That's not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Well, you are stubborn. Rotating 180 degrees and moving closer to the back wall... No legitimate reason you cant do that. I guessing you like to watch the tele while on your computer. So really it's a matter of your priorities. And yours are elsewhere. Which is fine.

+1
true

Grahamdwc · 6th February 2011

Hi Dave,
I think you might have to prioritize whats more important for you at the moment and then make the necessary adjustments to improve your setup.
There is no doubt having your monitors facing down the length of the room is the best set-up but if you cant rotate your desk then i would definitely listen to whatever advise Glenn Kuras has to give you on the matter. He is the expert and does know best. I have read a lot of his posts and i have learned from other peoples questions here.

Hope you can strike a happy medium

Graham

spiderman · 6th February 2011

No offense meant toward Glenn but in full disclosure you should know...

Glenn makes his living SELLING acoustic treatment. Perhaps you could buy $5000 worth of 6" GIK bass traps and "improve" the current setup. After all, anything CAN be improved. But...

It will not be an improvement worth the investment. YES... as Glenn said earlier... have fun loving what you do and do what you can to make it better.

Just be realistic. Buying tons of traps to cover your back wall will not be as helpful as spinning the desk around. In fact, most professionals would think that it would be wasted money. If you can't spin the desk around, give up on acoustics. Take the room OUT of the mix.

BTW... you've never given a solid realistic reason WHY you CANT spin the desk around. Hence, I think you're just stubborn.

31st January 2011	#12
johndykstra Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 4,585	Dave, The #1 improvement is by allowing more space/air between the speakers and the wall behind your head. The intensity of reflections off that wall will be so loud, and so quick that they are going to create a huge blur in your ears. Yes bass traps and absorbers will help... but they will take you a lot further if you can do as been suggested. Your best bet assuming you REALLY can't move, would be to build a large (whole wall) thick (upwards of 1' +) bass trap for that really close back wall. Don't forget ceiling and wall reflection points Abandon any idea of diffusion. __________________ phantom power doesn't make your voice sound spooky

4th February 2011	#16
Glenn Kuras Gear Guru Joined: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 12,011	Hey Dave, You are getting some good advice, but you will not be the first nor the last person out there that has a set up that can not be moved. If you can not move then that is that. Do not sell your monitors or stop recording, but work with what you have and enjoy it. For your set up I would focus on panels left, right and over head for the early reflection points (What Are Early Reflection Points. Spotlight on Bob Ebeling - Reflection Studio. GIK Acoustics Articles and Newsletters.), bass trapping in the corners behind you with THICK panels directly behind where your sit. It will not be perfect but will be 1000 times better then what you have now. __________________ Glenn Kuras GIK Acoustics USA GIK Acoustics Europe 770 986 2789 (USA) +44 (0) 20 7558 8976 (UK) See the NEW Scopus Tuned Trap

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29th January 2011	#1
Dutch Dave Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 213 Thread Starter	I need help with this (less than ideal) room! (pics included) I just moved my humble homestudio to a new room. It's actually the living room/ studio of this apartment I'm living in. I'm willing to improve the acoustics though, especially for mixing and recording vocals. I've already read a quite a bit about acoustics (especially on realtraps.com) but I'm wondering what you guys would advice for this particular room: I'm planning on doing a room test one of these days, so I'll post the results soon. Thanks in advance!

29th January 2011	#2
PaulP Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,196	First of all you gotta turn your desk around. You don't want a wall at your back. Then center it to the width of the room. Then move it forward and back until you find the spot that sounds best. Read three days worth of threads here and learn what you can do to improve your acoustics. Download Room EQ Wizard (free) and run some tests. You won't get good acoustics overnight. If you really want to do a good job you'll have to spend some time learning, building/buying and trying things out.

30th January 2011	#4
Dutch Dave Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 213 Thread Starter	I hear what you guys are saying. Please don't take think I'm an arrogant smartass, but turning around the desk is not really an option because of how I use the living room and how I use the computer also as a place to study. I can however move the desk more the centre (left-right). Can't I try to make it work with the desk facing this way, using bass traps and absobers/diffusers? Is that realistic?

5th February 2011	#18
Dutch Dave Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 213 Thread Starter	John and Glenn, thanks so much! That's the advice I was looking for. Soms people think I'm too stubborn or lazy to turn the desk around. That's not the case. But, thanks again, I'll work on it!

6th February 2011	#21
Grahamdwc Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,362	Hi Dave, I think you might have to prioritize whats more important for you at the moment and then make the necessary adjustments to improve your setup. There is no doubt having your monitors facing down the length of the room is the best set-up but if you cant rotate your desk then i would *definitely* listen to whatever advise Glenn Kuras has to give you on the matter. He is the expert and does know best. I have read a lot of his posts and i have learned from other peoples questions here. Hope you can strike a happy medium Graham

6th February 2011	#22
spiderman Gear maniac Joined: Aug 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 224 1 Review written	No offense meant toward Glenn but in full disclosure you should know... Glenn makes his living SELLING acoustic treatment. Perhaps you could buy $5000 worth of 6" GIK bass traps and "improve" the current setup. After all, anything CAN be improved. But... It will not be an improvement worth the investment. YES... as Glenn said earlier... have fun loving what you do and do what you can to make it better. Just be realistic. Buying tons of traps to cover your back wall will not be as helpful as spinning the desk around. In fact, most professionals would think that it would be wasted money. If you can't spin the desk around, give up on acoustics. Take the room OUT of the mix. BTW... you've never given a solid realistic reason WHY you CANT spin the desk around. Hence, I think you're just stubborn.