The official real wood paneling thread

[thefirehooligan]

I very interested in this subject as im looking to build a new live room when i move into my new space this fall. Im going to have either a baby grand or semi grand piano in the space along with building a nice isolation booth for vocals, guitar cabs ect. The space im looking for will have between 12 and 16 foot ceilings, im holding out for something vaulted.

My idea for the wood paneling and sound paneling in the room goes something like this:

Walls:

starting from the corners of each room would be a super chunk style absorber going from floor to where the slope of the ceiling starts (with a nice air gap behind it covered in fabric). Then coming out from those corners would be 1" thick hardwood board possibly with a small gap between each for say 4 feet. Then at around the 4 foot mark, have a 4 inch thick Rockwool panel going floor to ceiling start like the super chunk. And repeat this around the room. My guess is the room would be all sheetrock when i started.

Ceiling:

With the ceiling being slanted, I was thinking of putting a 2ft W 4" thick layer of Rockwool covered in fabric from corner to corner with say a 2" air gap behind it. Then have the ends of the wood slats butt up to the rockwool all the way up to the peak of the ceiling. Then at the peak of the ceiling mount dropped 4" Rockwool panels in a cloud like formation from one end of the peak to the other.

From there I could run tests of the RT60 time and add more panels to the walls ect to bring the rooms reflection under control.

Does this sound like a workable room treatment as far as aesthetics and acoustics go? Would it be best for me to build a frame on the walls to leave an airgap behind the wood boards and make them flush to the Rockwool Panels? or would that just be a big waste of time and be of 0 acoustic value. Maybe inside said framing I could lay fabric wrapped 1" sheets of Rockwool or some acoustic cotton, while leaving a 1/4" or 1/2" gap between each board?

I know it sounds very expensive and time consuming, But my father owns a very nice wood mill (which we used to cut all the lumbar for the massive shop he built a few years ago) and industrial planer as well. So its really just going to cost me for the loads of logs, some bandsaw bands and fuel for the mill. Of course the Rockwool and assorted costs will still be there, but they would be there whether or not I used the wood in the first place.

Thanks for any answers, This thread just sparked my interest because all these rooms look amazing.

[666666]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

I like to think that because of the organic nature of wood, that the density varies, and thus the surface reflection/absorption variance while tiny, is still there.

I agree... but indeed "tiny".

On a grand scale of an entire room filled with it, I'd think it "sounds" different... even though this density variance will likely only effect very high frequencies.

I agree with this too.

Also, wood has a considerably different moisture content, and thus should effect the humidity of the room... though I'm talking out of my arse here.

I'd say this is not true. The wood, once installed in the room, will soon take on the moisture content of the room, based on ambient moisture (relative humidity) and whatever moisture controlling elements come into play, heaters, air conditioners, humidifiers and dehumidifiers. In other words, the room moisture will dictate the moisture of the wood, not the other way around. Thus the wood has no "moisture effect" on the room... at least not after say a week.

This all assumes a tongue and groove, no gap wood paneling installation. Clearly if you were to employ slats with gaps, there'd be a huge difference to solid sheetrock.

Yes.

But I will also mention... I noticed that my thin 5/16" planking (which is "v-groove", no gaps) has an interesting surface "resonance" (or lack thereof). Each plank is slightly warped, and is stapled down to the plywood at the grooves only, at random spots. This means that the planks are NOT adhered "solidly" to the plywood backing. When you tap your finger on the planks at random spots, it has a somewhat "dead" or "hollow" kind of sound / feel... unlike solid sheetrock which feels totally "solid" and resonates.

My planking here does NOT seem to resonate, very "dead' and "limp" to the touch. I'm sure this must have a "measurable" effect on the upper frequencies. This was not done intentionally, but just turned out this way. This is the first time I've ever dealt with this type of planking.

Thicker planking may not have this same "limp" effect, but might actually have the opposite effect if not adhered "solidly" to the wall. Thicker planks may actually resonate, possibly in a "bad" way, if not secured well. In my case, the planks are so thin, soft and dry, they do not resonate at all. If you take one of the planks, loose, hold it up and tap on it, it makes no sound... almost sounds like you're tapping a piece of rubber. Yes, pine is very soft, and this is most noticeable when it's shaved very thin. So... this may actually be a good thing in terms of taming upper frequency reflections.... these "dead", "limp" planks will perhaps somewhat act as high-frequency (and maybe even upper-mid frequency) absorbers.

Regardless, I plan to install appropriate bass traps in the room, and those will be taming the upper end as well as the lower end... thus I am not overly concerned about the effect of the planking. But it would seem that my planking will help a bit if anything. As I've stated in a past post here, I'm already noticing a difference, and it's a positive one.

Side note... my room is not being built as a "studio-only" room. This is really more of a "temporary" studio environment that may have to be "converted" back into regular living space at some point. So a lot of attention is being paid to not making the room too "studio-specific". Like, if I had added nice thick planks with gaps in-between and rockwool behind it, etc, that would have been awesome in terms of acoustics, but when it would be time to vacate the space, I'd have to tear everything apart and then rebuild it all etc, would be very time consuming and expensive.... so I am building this room in such a way so that the day I need to get out, all I need to do is pack up my gear, take my portable bass traps off the walls, and walk out... and the room will look mint, 100% ready for the next occupant.

[shortyedwards]

Fascinating reading. 666666 this thread has been very enlightening. Thanks for all the detail.

What I take from all of this wood talk ... its primarily an aesthetic decision (though it may yield some positive acoustic benefits).

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by shortyedwards

What I take from all of this wood talk ... its primarily an aesthetic decision (though it may yield some positive acoustic benefits).

Wood (when done in the manner of the Power Station "A" room) can add all required acoustic control as well as being a beautiful effect from an aesthetic point of view - but in this case you are not installing it directly to drywall - it needs to be properly spaced off the wall - with insulation between the sleepers it will be nailed to - the proper spacing between the boards for the room - and maintaining the proper space between the boards throughout the room is a critical aspect of this method of treating the room acoustically.

FWIW - adding a finish of any kind to the wood can drastically change it's acoustic values - my suggestion would be to not do this until you complete the work - then - if you find the room needs to be brightened up - you can add finish until you achieve the proper acoustics.

BTW - if you want your wood darker - feel free to use a soaking stain on it - note i said a soaking - a surface stain will seal the wood fibers - a soaking stain will not - control the depth of the stain by the amount of time you let it soak in - multiple coats can be made if you need them - this because the stain does not seal the fibers of the wood.

Another trick you can use in rooms with high ceilings is to create horizontal lines using trim pieces to break the wood into a series of horizontal sections - and then slightly darken the wood from section to section - make this very subtle - the wood growing darker are is rises will create the effect of the room actually being higher than it is, this is a faux shadow effect.

Also - if you plan on using angled bass control in room corners - plan this as a part of the room finish rather than as an after-thought, build them first and then finish up to them and make the final trim on them work with the rest of the room.

There is no sense to spending money on special wood finishes on areas where you are only going to cover it up anyway.

I hope some of this helped,

Rod

Rod

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by thefirehooligan

Walls:

starting from the corners of each room would be a super chunk style absorber going from floor to where the slope of the ceiling starts (with a nice air gap behind it covered in fabric). Then coming out from those corners would be 1" thick hardwood board possibly with a small gap between each for say 4 feet. Then at around the 4 foot mark, have a 4 inch thick Rockwool panel going floor to ceiling start like the super chunk. And repeat this around the room. My guess is the room would be all sheetrock when i started.

Ceiling:

With the ceiling being slanted, I was thinking of putting a 2ft W 4" thick layer of Rockwool covered in fabric from corner to corner with say a 2" air gap behind it. Then have the ends of the wood slats butt up to the rockwool all the way up to the peak of the ceiling. Then at the peak of the ceiling mount dropped 4" Rockwool panels in a cloud like formation from one end of the peak to the other.

From there I could run tests of the RT60 time and add more panels to the walls ect to bring the rooms reflection under control.

Does this sound like a workable room treatment as far as aesthetics and acoustics go? Would it be best for me to build a frame on the walls to leave an airgap behind the wood boards and make them flush to the Rockwool Panels? or would that just be a big waste of time and be of 0 acoustic value. Maybe inside said framing I could lay fabric wrapped 1" sheets of Rockwool or some acoustic cotton, while leaving a 1/4" or 1/2" gap between each board?

I know it sounds very expensive and time consuming, But my father owns a very nice wood mill (which we used to cut all the lumbar for the massive shop he built a few years ago) and industrial planer as well. So its really just going to cost me for the loads of logs, some bandsaw bands and fuel for the mill. Of course the Rockwool and assorted costs will still be there, but they would be there whether or not I used the wood in the first place.

Thanks for any answers, This thread just sparked my interest because all these rooms look amazing.

Sounds like a convoluted way to get there - with the vertical space you have to give the room - in properly designed string room you don't need to bass corner treatment - you don't need the cloud - and you don't need to experiment worrying about trying to deal with things after the fact........

the attached file is an example of a fantastic string room.......... great for pianos, string sections, etc.

Rod

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by Rod Gervais

Wood (when done in the manner of the Power Station "A" room) can add all required acoustic control as well as being a beautiful effect from an aesthetic point of view - but in this case you are not installing it directly to drywall - it needs to be properly spaced off the wall - with insulation between the sleepers it will be nailed to - the proper spacing between the boards for the room - and maintaining the proper space between the boards throughout the room is a critical aspect of this method of treating the room acoustically.
Rod

Rod,

Thank you so much for your contribution to this site!

Can you point me in a direction to do some more learning on this technique?

[shortyedwards]

Rod,

Thank you so much for your contribution to this site!

Can you point me in a direction to do some more learning on this technique?

I second that! Thanks very much.

Rod - Would this sort of room tuning (forgive if that's not the right term)with wood finishes be beneficial in small recording/tracking/mixing spaces? My space is so small (10.5' x 11.5' with 7' ceiling), with 1/2" sheetrock, over pink insulation. I'm looking to opimize the space, as well making it a great looking space to spend all that precious time in. My goal (and yes it is a lofty one, but t'is the only space I've got) is for recording vocals, acoustic and electric guitars, and yes even drums.

[xaMdaM]

As one who has treated an isolation booth in this manner... I can tell you that it DOES make a WORLD of difference in that the reverberation time (RT60) is much more natural and pleasing to the ear.

So, if an approximate 8x8 can sound good.. I guarantee you that a 10.5'x11.5 is going to be bunches more pleasant to work in than just a straight hard surfaced wall with treatment slapped up.

Not only that... but it sure do look purdy if you do it right.

[DaFuente]

I love the look of wood in a studio! Which brings me to this question which probably doesn't deserve its own thread.

In my current place, I installed a ton of absorption/bass trapping. The frequency response curve is beautiful in the low end now, but I totally killed the highs. It's a long story, but I can't really remove any of the the traps. What do you guys think about retrofitting a room with wood to restore life to a small room? Does anyone have any experience with this?

[shortyedwards]

So, if an approximate 8x8 can sound good.. I guarantee you that a 10.5'x11.5 is going to be bunches more pleasant to work in than just a straight hard surfaced wall with treatment slapped up.

Thanks xaMdaM, you've really given me hope!

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

Rod,

Thank you so much for your contribution to this site!

Can you point me in a direction to do some more learning on this technique?

dykstraster,

well - that is the twist - I don't know of anywhere you can learn this in the sense of reading material.

I learned it by working with Tony Bongiovi, the founder and designer of Power Station New York, when I was working on Power Station New England.

I will also have to admit that this (along with all of my other engineering disciplines) is sot of intuitive with me.

So the only way I know for you to achieve this would be to hire one of the many studio designers who use these methods in their designs.........

Rod

[locutus]

Originally Posted by Rod Gervais

it needs to be properly spaced off the wall - with insulation between the sleepers it will be nailed to - the proper spacing between the boards for the room - and maintaining the proper space between the boards throughout the room is a critical aspect of this method of treating the room acoustically.

Are you referring to tuning them as hemholtz resonator slots, or detuning them. From the pictures I wouldn't guess that the spaces make for useful hemholtz ratios.

I thought that the purpose was to just provide a quasi randomized pattern for a certain percentage of mid/high reflections.

Nathan

[shortyedwards]

DaFuente,
I noticed that no one responded to your post. And while I'm certainly not qualified to answer your question, might I suggest that you do some extensive searches here, perhaps on the topics of diffusion, sound treatment, resonators and any other phrases and buzz words you see flying around here. There is alot of info just waiting to be unlocked for you. Then when you've exhausted the searches you could start your own thread.

Best of luck with your room treatments.

[666666]

Time for a bump

Let's get some more pics of planked rooms, with details.

[LordRadio]

great thread guys, really inspiring.

I saw the below at the local ikea the other day and though about using it in front of a fabric covered frame filled with SAFB or 703 :

IKEA | Bedroom storage | Headboards | MANDAL | Wall-mounted headboard

If stood on it's side it would be 8'. It's not really cost effective but it would help liven up (i'm assuming) the deadness of such a wall. Thoughts?

[666666]

Originally Posted by LordRadio

great thread guys, really inspiring.
I saw the below at the local ikea the other day and though about using it in front of a fabric covered frame filled with SAFB or 703 :
IKEA | Bedroom storage | Headboards | MANDAL | Wall-mounted headboard
If stood on it's side it would be 8'. It's not really cost effective but it would help liven up (i'm assuming) the deadness of such a wall. Thoughts?

Cool ...but consider that you could yield pretty much the same thing using 15 or so 8-foot long 2"X2"s or 1"X3"s (whatever) from The Home Depot, would probably cost less than $40 and would be very easy to put together. Plus you could dial up the spacings just right, also have the choice of leaving it unfinished, or finish it how you like, etc. Just thoughts. But... if that IKEA thing was maybe less than half the price, it would probably be a good "out of the box" option to add a bit of reflection in front of a bass trap.

[LordRadio]

Originally Posted by 666666

Cool ...but consider that you could yield pretty much the same thing using 15 or so 8-foot long 2"X2"s or 1"X3"s (whatever) from The Home Depot, would probably cost less than $40 and would be very easy to put together. Plus you could dial up the spacings just right, also have the choice of leaving it unfinished, or finish it how you like, etc. Just thoughts. But... if that IKEA thing was maybe less than half the price, it would probably be a good "out of the box" option to add a bit of reflection in front of a bass trap.

indeed, thanks for the response.

I'm in the middle of a build out and I'm really glad i stumbled across this.

Is there any reference for the proper spacing or wood widths or is it best to just stagger them, say 4" then 1" then 2" etc in a completely random but evenly spaced pattern? I couldn't find any reference info for this on the net.

thanks again for the help and great thread

[666666]

Originally Posted by LordRadio

...Is there any reference for the proper spacing or wood widths or is it best to just stagger them, say 4" then 1" then 2" etc in a completely random but evenly spaced pattern? I couldn't find any reference info for this on the net....

You may wish to ask this question in the "Bass Traps, Acoustics, etc" part of this forum. The guys that hang out there are more into this sort of thing.

My own personal take on it would be, the spacing / wood widths etc should be chosen based on your room's needs... it's not a universal thing. If your panels are going to be very close to the recorded source, then I'd say you'd want less wood and greater spacing (don't want any close reflection activity)... and if they are to be far away, you might desire more wood with less spacing (or not), etc. You might just have to build a few and experiment... take a listen... and adjust from there. You could potentially use thin wood strips with very wide spacings at first (with enough space to add more strips in-between)... then test... and if you want more brightness, just add more strips, etc.

Best of luck!

[johndykstra]

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • View topic - Corrected Helmholz Spreadsheet

The above link is to a thread over at the Sayer's forum. Given the depth of the cavity, the wood to gap ratio as well as wood thickness, you can in essence tune the response of a slat wall to hit problematic frequencies in your specific room.

[Yetti]

Lot's of info in this thread...
I used tounge and groove cedar over 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock on the wall, and built my duffusors out of 3/4" plywood with cedar s4s trim.

I left everything unfinished...I figured it would "sound" better than sealing it with a clearcoat. I get nice reflections off the wood for room mics.

Another benifit of using unfinished is that if somone bumps an amp or drum into the cedar wall moving in and out, I have been able to wet that dented area with a sponge and water to raise the grain back up, and then sand it flush after it dries....really works well!