The official real wood paneling thread

[666666]

Originally Posted by Rod Gervais

OK - confusion here in the terminology.

Paneling is something that comes in 4'x8' sheets - of varying thicknesses - generally 1/8" thick - but possible up to 1/4",

Anything over 1/4" is considered plywood.

What Max has in his room is wood boards - not paneling....

Yes, sorry for any confusion with terminology.

I just checked the stuff I had picked up at Home Depot, the packaging says "wood PLANKING" (not paneling). Makes sense.

It seems that most people would refer to a wood planking or wood board wall treatment as "wood paneling" though. Incorrect, but more commonly recognized and understood. Wrong terminology, but it gets the point across to the average person.

If I could alter the title of this thread I would, but I don't think this is possible. If I could alter it I think I'd still keep the word "paneling" in there, but would ADD the word "planking"... planking of course means rows of boards which IS my focus.

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by 666666

If I could alter the title of this thread I would, but I don't think this is possible. If I could alter it I think I'd still keep the word "paneling" in there, but would ADD the word "planking"... planking of course means rows of boards which IS my focus.

You can just edit your first post with some clarification on terminology... as planks with gaps perform WAY differently than even planks without gaps...

It's all good though, I think just coming here to get a woody is all people are looking for.

[666666]

Let's get some more posts happening here, more photos of wood planked studio rooms, with details, etc...

[xaMdaM]

I'll try to remember to snag some shots of the cedar lined Iso Booth, this weekend.....

[666666]

Ok guys... I have carpenters adding pine planking to one of my new studio rooms this week. For this particular application, I picked up the 5/16" thick (ultra thin) pine planking from Home Depot. I'm not thrilled about the look of this "thin" planking (since the groove isn't too deep), but it will be going mostly on the ceiling, and there is a weight concern for this particular ceiling / roofing structure, so we felt it was best to play it safe by using the lightest stuff possible.

So my big question... what is the BEST way to FINISH this pine planking? I'd be happy with a simple, natural look, but not sure of the best way to tackle this. I'm dealing with a fairly large area, so I hope to cut down on the amount of steps necessary. I started researching this online and found a few articles listing like 12 or more steps, multiple applications of sealer, shellac, sanding, etc. I am hoping there is a method of achieving a nice natural look and also adding a bit of protection with just two or three steps tops perhaps... maybe one coat of sealer and then one coat of...???

I once took a bare wood snare drum shell (was maple I believe) and coated it with just tung oil only and it came out BEAUTIFUL. But not sure if tung oil is appropriate for pine planking. Pros / cons....?

I've read that pine is a very inconsistent wood, some areas soft, some hard, etc, and will not take stain evenly unless coated with a sealer first.

But I read other articles stating that you can just coat the pine with shellac only (no stain) and the wood will darken naturally over time and look really nice. I know this is true actually since I had a few pieces of this same planking sitting around in a well day lit room for like a year and it noticeably darkened and became a really nice color. There wasn't any shellac on it though. I wonder if shellac would reduce the rate / degree of natural darkening....?

I'm really excited, my new room should be all planked up by next week or so... just hope I can figure out the "best" way of finishing the pine... and hopefully be able to do it in a minimal amount of steps so it doesn't take me months to complete.

Any notes, tips, ideas etc would be greatly appreciated.

[xaMdaM]

What I would do, is not necessarily right, nor wrong... it's just what I would do...

I wouldn't do squat to it.

When you add sealers... ANY sealer... you're decreasing the surface roughness. As you make the surface slick, you're increasing the reflective characteristic of the surface area.

I would at least wait until you have the whole place done, and then see if you need to increase the reflectivity in the space to increase the RT60. I you do, then, and only then would I consider the addition of sealers on the wood. (and even then, I'd be hesitant doing so.)

All wood will get a patina as it ages... whether it be sealed or not.

One thing you might consider, which is what I did... and that is to dress the place up with trim.

In my case, the tracking room is red oak, trimmed in walnut. I did use Danish Oil to seal the trim and even out the color variations in the walnut. It does dress the place up right purdy, if I say so myself. I really like the contrast of the lighter dominant wood with the dark trim.

In the control room, I did just the opposite and used the lighter red oak as trim to the dominant color of the cherry.

[WalkoftheEarth]

Originally Posted by 666666

So my big question... what is the BEST way to FINISH this pine planking? I

I used 1 coat of polyurethane. It gave the pine a warm golden look.
It is true that it may be more reflective. How much more reflective? I don't know how significant the difference would be, but as I like to remind myself - EVERYTHING MATTERS. So do be aware of that in making your decision.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by WalkoftheEarth

I used 1 coat of polyurethane. It gave the pine a warm golden look.
It is true that it may be more reflective. How much more reflective? I don't know how significant the difference would be, but as I like to remind myself - EVERYTHING MATTERS. So do be aware of that in making your decision.

That sounds very similar to what was done to the pine ceiling in a building we put in adjacent to the studio about 25 years ago. Just a quick coat sprayed on before the wood was put up. Still looks great today.

[Disjointed]

i have lots of experience playing with wood

1 coat of tung oil will add the least amount of reflectivity, and will not smooth it out too much either. What it will do is increase the hardness of the pine, and thus possibly remove some of its absorption (which has to be minuscule).

i think polyurethane is too thick and adds a yellowish tint to the wood, i prefer not to use it except for exterior applications.

all wood does patina with age (especially when exposed to uv light), so coating it will not stop that.

What I would recommend is coating areas that might come into contact with ppl, hands especially. ppl are oily creatures, and unprotected wood will absorb this and begin to darken and look dirty. (every little dirty fingerprint)

1 coat of tung oil will do just enough to stop the absorption of these oils, and it will make it cleanable (very important factor for long term beauty)

gl

[bluemachine]

great thread , now i'm pondering whether i should add some wooden panels
too, I really like the look of it.

[666666]

Originally Posted by WalkoftheEarth

I used 1 coat of polyurethane. It gave the pine a warm golden look. It is true that it may be more reflective. How much more reflective? I don't know how significant the difference would be, but as I like to remind myself - EVERYTHING MATTERS. So do be aware of that in making your decision.

Thanks! I think your paneling looks awesome, I'd be very happy if I could achieve the same results.

I'm not overly concerned about reflectivity as I already plan on covering a decent percentage of the walls with bass traps. Yes, the reflectivity of the planking still matters, but I don't think it will be ultra critical in my situation. My room is large, and the wood planking will only be covering about maybe 50% of the walls / ceiling area anyway. Finally I need to strike a good compromise between good aesthetics / wood protection and acoustics. So I'm not ruling out anything as of yet.

Originally Posted by xaMdaM

...I wouldn't do squat to it. When you add sealers... ANY sealer... you're decreasing the surface roughness. As you make the surface slick, you're increasing the reflective characteristic of the surface area.

This is a very attractive idea as it requires NO extra work!!! I'll consider this, but the wood planking right now has a very dull, raw, unfinished look to it... very light color too... not very attractive looking. Yes, ultimately, the acoustic property comes first, but I am hoping to make the room look pretty nice too. But one concept is that if I'm not sure what to do now as far as finishes are concerned, I can always leave it totally unfinished for now, and then finish it at a later point in time. I suppose I can't go too wrong this way.

All wood will get a patina as it ages... whether it be sealed or not.

Ahhhh... ok... I was actually going to ask this question here... was wondering if the wood will still darken naturally even after applying a sealer etc. So you're saying it will. Good to know. I do have windows in my room with plenty of daylight coming in, so I suppose I can count on natural darkening whether I seal it or not. I will not have direct sunshine on the wood itself, but good general sunlight in the room.

Originally Posted by Disjointed

1 coat of tung oil will add the least amount of reflectivity, and will not smooth it out too much either. What it will do is increase the hardness of the pine, and thus possibly remove some of its absorption (which has to be minuscule).

i think polyurethane is too thick and adds a yellowish tint to the wood, i prefer not to use it except for exterior applications.

all wood does patina with age (especially when exposed to uv light), so coating it will not stop that....

Glad to see someone mention tung oil. Just last night I found a can of Minwax Tung Oil in my basement and I tested it out on a scrap of my new planking. Very nice. It did add a very small degree of "shine" to the wood, but very slight. The surface was still rough and somewhat porous looking. I'm sure it reduced porosity a bit, but not totally. Most noticeably it seemed to add CONTRAST to the wood... made the lighter sections lighter and darker sections darker, made the wood look way nicer and more "finished" without a thick high-gloss coating. Also, very easy to apply... just brush or wipe on, then buff smooth after about 10 minutes, that's it, quick and easy. Seems that you can't really screw it up. Supposedly if you want more of a shine to the wood you can repeat applications, but per my test, just one quick application was enough to make the wood look noticeably nicer, with a little bit of shine but not too much.

So at this point, I'm leaning towards possibly just leaving the wood alone for now and dealing with finishing at a later point in time... OR considering one quick application of tung oil and hoping that the wood will darken a bit naturally over time (thus no need for staining to achieve a slightly darker color).

I suppose I will not rule out poly-U either, but the downsides to poly-U might be slightly more difficulty with application, and it might yield the "hardest" (most reflective) finish of all the options. Perhaps I'll pick up a small can of poly-U and do a test, compare to tung oil, etc.

I think I'd ultimately like to put some type of finish on this wood as it really does not look that great as is right now. I suppose if it was a really choice cut of rich, thick pine planking, it might look really nice unfinished... but what I have here are 1/4" thin Home Depot planks, not the most "choice" stuff on the planet, it's ok but doesn't look overly impressive unfinished... very white and dry looking... but I can see already that even a quick coat of tung oil can really bring it to life, the tung oil alone really makes a big difference... the wood still looks very natural, but the oil really brings out the colors and contrast, gives it an almost poly-U look but without the hard coating.

I really appreciate all the ideas / suggestions so far... keep `em coming!

[xaMdaM]

OK, I saw that same planking at Home Repot the other day. Yeah, it's rough sawed. and does look kinda' snarly.

If you can find a local woodworker, (drive through a neighborhood with your windows rolled down and listen for the sound of a planer and/or cussin') with a planer. If you can get that surface milled down to a smoother finish, without loosing too much more thickness, (maybe another 1/16"), I think that will get you where you want to be.

All of my lumber is just planner milled, and while not smooth sanded, it's definitely not rough sawed, and is probably the "look" that most folks, including yourself, are looking for.

But, Tung Oil might do the trick if you wanna leave the rough sawed look.

[vespiz]

Sorry if this takes things a bit OT, but I've been meaning to ask about the boarding..
I think Rod Gervais answered to this already, but as I've understood it, placing boards in front of, say, a superchunk is just essentially making the room more reflective. The gaps between the boards are for controlling the amount of absorption vs. reflection, correct?
And these are not the same as a proper Helmholtz-resonator or the like (unless of course built as one).
I've sometimes seen the spacing between the boards being varied as well as the board widths, is this more for aesthetics or, as I'm guessing, there is some acoustic reasoning behind it? (Helmholtzes?)

[xaMdaM]

Originally Posted by vespiz

Sorry if this takes things a bit OT, but I've been meaning to ask about the boarding..
I think Rod Gervais answered to this already, but as I've understood it, placing boards in front of, say, a superchunk is just essentially making the room more reflective. The gaps between the boards are for controlling the amount of absorption vs. reflection, correct?
And these are not the same as a proper Helmholtz-resonator or the like (unless of course built as one).
I've sometimes seen the spacing between the boards being varied as well as the board widths, is this more for aesthetics or, as I'm guessing, there is some acoustic reasoning behind it? (Helmholtzes?)

You're assumption that placing boards in front of something like a Superchunk is purely for absorption is incorrect.

Eric Desart's thread at John Sayers is rather enlightening...

But the essential takeaway, is that the width of the board, the thickness of the board, the distance of the spacing between boards and the depth of the cavity, are by definition, acting in concert as a Helmholtz Resonator.

Hope this helps clarify...

[vespiz]

Originally Posted by xaMdaM

You're assumption that placing boards in front of something like a Superchunk is purely for absorption is incorrect.

Eric Desart's thread at John Sayers is rather enlightening...

But the essential takeaway, is that the width of the board, the thickness of the board, the distance of the spacing between boards and the depth of the cavity, are by definition, acting in concert as a Helmholtz Resonator.

Hope this helps clarify...

Thanks for the link, I knew it was there somewhere, somehow I'd missed that!

I wasn't assuming that it would be for absorption, rather for getting more reflection back to the room. But what I didn't know is that placing boards in front of a trap would alter it's "trapping" properties, but which should have been somewhat obvious with all the talk about panel resonators etc..

I'm doing some planning for our live room and thought that some wood boards in front of traps would be the way to get some liveliness back to the room, not to mention look nice.. Apparently, I have more reading to do!

[666666]

We're working on the planking right now, about 30% of it is up already. I'm starting to dig the look of it just natural, as is, with no coating. It's a bit light in color for my taste, but I know it will darken naturally with time.

And I AM already noticing a change (improvement) in the sonic characteristics of the room. Previously the room (still under construction) was 100% sheetrock with plywood floor, I've become familiar with the sound of it from working in there. Now with some planking up, the reflections seem a tad bit "darker", slightly more diffused sound, the flutter echoes etc seem less severe. Then again, we have some ladders, a small scaffold and some wood scraps laying around the room now, those items are probably responsible for a bit of this observed change.

The pine planking is a bit dusty and dried out looking. I'm wondering if I can wipe the wood down with something to try to "clean" it nice, without actually coating it. I've read a lot of articles stating to wipe wood planking down with mineral spirits prior to staining, varnishing, etc... I am guessing that doing so is merely to "clean" the wood... OR, by chance, does a mineral spirit wipe down actually do anything to change or improve the aesthetic characteristics? Maybe all I need is a mineral spirit wipe down...?

Another thought came to mind... I am still not ruling out coating the wood with tung oil as it seems to the be the easiest and mildest form of treatment, still leaving the surface generally rough but adding a bit of contrast and slight "shine", an almost "wet" look. But here's my concern. Let's say I rub one or two coats of tung oil into all the wood.... then say a year or two from now I decide that I wish to varnish the wood. Will I be able to varnish the wood even though it has been covered in tung oil? I'd imagine that varnish will not want to stick to an "oily" surface. Sure, the wood could be sanded a bit, but I am wondering the tung oil will soak in really deep and perhaps make it impossible to coat with anything ever again (unless severely sanded down, but this planking is only 5/16" thick, so you can only sand it down so much before it becomes near paper thin). Tung oil experts, any comments here? Perhaps the tung oil "drys up" over time and thus will not be a long-term problem?

Another thing that has come to mind... due to the natural darkening process of wood planking from UV light, I do not want to cover any of the planking with wall hangings as doing so will yield "ghosts" on the wood. For instance, if I hang a big rectangular bass trap right up against the planking, then a year or two from now when I may need to remove the bass trap, I will have a big light colored rectangle in my wood. I suppose the entire wall of planking could be sanded down at that point in order to lighten up the whole wall and effectively make the "rectangle" go away, but that would be counter-productive as I know I will like and want the natural darkened look. So I'm now thinking about how to add bass traps and other things in the room without having them be affixed directly over the planking. I'm thinking that bass traps can perhaps be suspended out, away from the wall a bit so light can get behind... do the "cloud" effect, except not just on the ceiling, but walls too. I suppose I still may encounter uneven darkening this way, but at least it will not leave severe imprints on the planking... hopefully. I may need to move the studio out of this room eventually so I am concerned about preserving the expensive work I am putting into it now so that the day I move out it will still be in dead mint condition.

I've been very careful to keep the planking at about 55% - 60% RH for days prior to and during installation, I think this is a good "middle of the road" RH. Even with AC in the summers and humidifiers in the winters, the RH can still fluctuate in my building within a range of about 40% - 65%. I always shoot for about 50%, but as anyone in the northeast knows, it can be hard to keep this ideal RH consistent without constant attention, running air conditioning, dehumidifiers and humidifiers almost all the time... gets expensive too. So I consider there will be a bit of a range. The last hardwood floor I installed here was done with the wood at about 55% RH... and it's worked out great.... in the summers it does creak a little and seems tight, but no buckling, heaving or cupping etc, at all... and in the winters some of the seams open up a tiny bit, the wood does noticeably shrink... but overall the floor has remained tight and quiet for the past few years, so the 55% RH installation seems to work well. And yes, of course, with both flooring and planking, I've left space at the outer edges for expansion.

[Disjointed]

good to hear your install is going well ...

sorry if i missed it in a previous post, but are you putting the planking over your drywall or on top on insulation(mineral wool?)

mineral spirits will wipe the wood just fine, they will evaporate and leave little if any residue..... but if it is just dust, how about water

Tung oil dries hard to the touch, it does not remain oily... it is very similar to a very thinned down application of polyurethane, you will have no trouble if you decide to coat it with another oil based finish in the future.... in fact, many projects i do i use tung oil (or danish oil) to bring out the beauty of the wood, and then ill top coat with polyurethane.

2 coats of tung oil will do you right, with just 1 coat, on pine, you might notice a difference in the sheen in some areas, but with 2 it should be relatively even.

Hanging your bass traps off the wall should also be no problem, in fact it should help to trap more bass!

gl!

[PaulP]

Originally Posted by Disjointed

mineral spirits will wipe the wood just fine, they will evaporate and leave little if any residue..... but if it is just dust, how about water

I'd stay away from water as it will raise the grain making your wood even
rougher than it is already (unless you want that of course). How about a
vacuum cleaner once you've finished work in the room ?

You say your wood is rough, this may be a problem if you want to use a
finish that you apply, then wipe off with a rag. You may end up with wood
covered in lint.

Tung oil dries hard to the touch, it does not remain oily... it is very similar to a very thinned down application of polyurethane, you will have no trouble if you decide to coat it with another oil based finish in the future.... in fact, many projects i do i use tung oil (or danish oil) to bring out the beauty of the wood, and then ill top coat with polyurethane.

There is tung oil and then there is tung oil. The usual 'finishes' are very
diluted mixtures of a little bit of tung oil and a lot of solvent. They also
contain dryers that cause the oil to catalyze and dry. Pure tung oil on
the other hand, like you can get from Lee Valley, will take forever to dry
though it will eventually. My favourite recipe, which I got out of an old
Fine Woodworking book, is 1/3 polyurethane, 1/3 pure tung oil, 1/3 mineral
spirits. Slop it on, rub it in with a rag, wait a bit, wipe it off. Wipe it down
every once in a while until it dries. One coat will protect the wood pretty
well and the finish is all but invisible (though nice and smooth if you sanded
the wood beforehand).

I'm not crazy about tung oil on pine, I find it makes it too yellow, and it
gets worse with time. Some of the tung oil finishes are a bit darker and
may be better. If you stain, use an oil based stain. Usually you seal the
surface with a light coat of shellac first then sand it down to the wood
before staining for even absorption.

The golden rule of finishing is to try out a bunch of ways on scaps until
you get what you want. Oh, and don't leave oily rags lying around if you
don't want your studio to burn down. Lay them out on the ground outside
until they dry.

Paul P

[Carotte]

I find myself running into ''barn demolition'' deals all the time... I'm thinking about doing the whole studio paneling with old barn wood. The look will be great and it will have cost me considerably less than buying it all new... I think anyone who lives near a rural area should stay alert for free or cheap barns for demolition''. Craig's list is full of them!

[666666]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Cool.

Ok, tonight a fairly serious problem was discovered with my planking install. The installers have been working on the ceiling. Where the butt ends of the planks meet, they have been angle cutting the boards so that there is a slight overlap at the butt seams, then adding a bit of glue here to hold the butt end seams together tight. They found that if they didn't do this, the seams often would not mate up nice since a lot of the planks are slightly warped, curled, etc (remember, this is ultra thin planking or 1/4" thickness). Then once glued, they'd hit the seam areas with an electric sander to remove any slight step that existed at the seams. Now perhaps this all sounds fine... and I'll admit, the seams are coming out perfect, really nice, tight, perfectly even, square, etc.

But here's the problem... and I did not realize it until tonight, after many square feet of planking was installed, many hours of work and many hundreds of dollars of planks put up. I never realized how much texture this planking has naturally, and the texture is very nice... probably the best feature really. Also, the planks have already been a bit naturally darkened. So now what has happened, the areas that were sanded (seam areas) now look like strange, ultra-smooth, light colored blotches, all over the ceiling... and it looks bad. At one point the installer did say to me, "we may need to sand the entire ceiling down to get this all to match well", and at that point I did not understand exactly what he meant since it all looked fine to me at that point in time based on my position in the room, the lighting at that time, etc. I thought he was just being overly fussy. But then LATER, after a lot of work was done and after the installer left for the day, I gave it all a much closer look, with different lighting, different angles, and now I see what the installer was talking about... and it's very noticeable. I can't believe I had missed it earlier. This is what happens when you try to function on no sleep.

So, I guess I'm screwed here. It would seem that the only way to fix this "light colored splotch" issue would indeed be to sand the entire ceiling. But then I'll lose my beautiful natural wood grain texture as well as the natural coloring. I very much like the look of the wood, as is now, I don't want to sand down the whole thing. That would not only suck, but would also take many man hours to do and be expensive.

I wonder if the light colored splotches will darken over time and "blend in" better with the rest of the planking... but then again, the rest of the planking will get darker too... so the contrast between the light colored splotches and rest of the planking may stay the same and always be noticeable. Does the wood finally reach a "maximum darkness" and everything evens out, or does it just keep on darkening seemingly forever? Regardless of the darkening factor, the sanded areas no longer have texture anyway, they are smooth like glass, so these areas will perhaps always look a bit different no matter what the color.

And my guess is that IF I decide to hit all the wood with tung oil or similar, this will only bring out the splotches that much more and make them EXTREMELY noticeable. So at this point I guess I no longer have the option of tung oiling or varnishing this ceiling... unless I want to sand the hell out of the entire thing first, thus making it all ultra smooth like a fake, laminate paneling.

So I guess I'm screwed here. I'm very bummed out about it, the job was coming along so well too, now I will need to live with a pretty severe blemish in a new, very expensive ceiling. I can't really blame the installer because he's overall been doing a very careful and fantastic job. Plus, this "cheap", ultra thin Home Depot planking has been a pain to work with and the installer has had a real challenge here, the stuff is often warped, it splits very easily, very hard to line up the tongue and groove, it's very fragile and generally a bear to work with. And the installer DID point out the "sanding splotch" issue to me early on, and my response at the time was, "it looks fine, don't worry about it", and that's because I just did not see the problem at that point in time.

So, anyone here have any ideas, thoughts, suggestions? I can't imagine any way to fix this problem other than sanding down the entire ceiling and then living with a glass-smooth non-textured wood ceiling (which I won't like anyway)... either that or ripping all the existing planking down, discarding it, and starting over... but redoing it from scratch would be terribly expensive... and plus the existing job so far, other than the sanding issue, has come out amazingly well... it would be a terrible shame to destroy it all now. I think the installer would be devastated too and probably think I was completely nuts if I asked for it to all be torn down just because the seam areas have been sanded.

So... you guys think the light colored blotches will even out over time as the wood naturally darkens more? Is there anything I'm overlooking that might make me feel better? Any other way to fix this? Or am I stuck with ugly light colored blotches all over my ceiling forever now? Man, I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight, I've been so excited about this job and this room, it's all been coming out mint, like a dream come true, been waiting and saving up for years for this, and now this blemish issue has just ruined it all. Alright, I'll stop whining until I get some feedback here... I need to have faith that there is a solution.

[Rick Sutton]

Just a couple of random thoughts here based on 40 years of living in and modifying a wood walled/ceiling studio. My own observations, may relate to your situation, may not.
1. When I first complete a change in the studio all the imperfections catch my eye and stick out to me. With time that diminishes greatly. Every time.
2. Possibly a vigorous application of wire brushing that roughs up the smooth areas and feathers into the rough areas will help. It will probably look even odder at first as it will uncover some unoxidized wood but given a little time it will all oxidize again and the rough texture will blend in.
3. Perfection (all sanded) is boring. Embrace the slightly odd textural variations.
4. At this point I wouldn't treat the wood with anything liquid as this will seal in the obvious differences. Let it age.
5. It is very possible that given NO attempt at rectifying this "problem" that after some aging the smoother areas will actually form their own subtle secondary pattern that will add to the overall textural effect of the ceiling. I kid you not.

As a further indication of how imperfections can actually become "textural", my room is built with merch grade redwood that is very inconsistent in thickness. I sweated the issue where the boards butt jointed together when I put it up but decided there really was nothing I could do about it. Those obvious joints just ended up adding a sub texture to the overall geometric lines that makes the wood have a more interesting appearance. It actually adds to the overall presentation. All quarter notes is boring, you gotta have some syncopation to make it more interesting!

[xaMdaM]

I ran into a similar situation... not with butting the joints to perfection, but with the holes I drilled to attach the boards.

The countersink bit wasn't as sharp as it shoulda' been... I tried sanding a couple of em' and about had a stroke at the difference in texture. That was maybe 4 months ago, now... and you really don't notice em' at all.

So, I agree with Rick... let it be for now. Wait 6 months or so and see what you think at THAT point.

[666666]

Thanks guys, I greatly appreciate your input... and I do feel better now.

The installers are here now and we just discussed the issue. Looks like we figured out a "better" way of installing the boards from here on out so that no sanding is "required". Instead of trying to get the butt-end seams to match perfectly and smoothly (requiring blend sanding), we are now going to add a very small bevel to all butt-ends, somewhat attempting to match the t&g bevels on the long sides. Adding small bevels at the butt-ends will provide a lot of "forgiveness" and thus any "steps" will not be too noticeable and no sanding needed. They will no longer be adding the staggered angled cuts or glue.

Previously, the installer's concept was to keep the seams tight, even and smooth. I suppose I should have been more on the ball myself and thought more about this before proceeding. I pretty much just let the installer go nuts without discussing it. Now looking back, I should have never agreed to any sanding, and should have communicated to the installer that it was not important to me to have perfect, nearly invisible seams. There's no right or wrong here, just a matter of preference, opinion, etc. The installer is excellent, I could never fault him, amazing general carpenter, but he's not a "specialist" at wood planking. I suppose a "specialist", a guy dealing with planking every single day, would have known not to spot sand.

So from this point on, we are going to bevel the butt-ends, no sanding... and as for the planking that's already been installed, the installer is going to go back and carefully cut bevels at the seams to match the new beveled seams we are now yielding with the installation from this point on. We already did some test cuts and it all seems to look good. He is able to match the bevels well enough. This new "bevel" idea was the installer's idea anyway, I think he already knew there was an issue with the sanding after we did a few rows yesterday, so this morning we both mutually agreed that we needed to "improve" our butt-end seam technique.

The sanding splotches exist on maybe 25% of the ceiling area, so it's not the end of the world. But the frustrating part, the splotches are right in the most "important" part of the ceiling, right over where the console will go, and it's an angled ceiling, so when you're mixing etc, the splotches will be right in view... and any important promotional photos of the studio will include these splotches too (though I suppose there's always Photoshop ).

But you guys have made me feel better, I will expect that over time these splotches will "blend in" better and perhaps not be as noticeable as they are to me now. Plus I can perhaps figure out a way to maybe hang a few things, bass traps etc, over the splotch area to cover a bit of it up. I originally wanted the ceiling as exposed as possible in this area just for maximum dosage of natural wood, but...

And yes, I am well aware that whenever starting a project, it's always wise to never START at the most important point in the room, because inevitably, you always make some degree of errors when first starting out and learn as you go. As a rule, whenever I do a project, I start in the least important spot, learn my lessons, then work my way over to the more important sections. In the case with this planked ceiling, the installer just happened to prefer to start in what was the most important section (he didn't know it and I failed to point it out), all the tools, scaffold etc just happened to be in that location, it was simply more convenient to start there, and I didn't really want to say, "hey, move all your stuff to the other side of the room because I'm afraid you may screw up this side which is more important". And the fact that the installer had already planked a few of the walls and it came out PERFECT gave me a lot of confidence... but what I failed to recognize, the wall work had no butt-end seams... the ceiling was the first phase of the project where butt-end seams were required.

That's the report FWIW. I'm gonna go back in there now and choke on sawdust for a bit, see what's going on in there. Hope this new beveled seam idea is going to work out well. What I do like about it is that it's going to add that much more texture and interest to the ceiling, the individual planks will be a little more defined now, etc. The installer is doing a great job at choosing random seam points, nice overlapping, very random, nice choice of planks, he's mixing them up nice, etc.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by 666666

the splotches are right in the most "important" part of the ceiling, right over where the console will go

I think you caught a break here. Can you say "beautiful, wood trimmed, hanging acoustic cloud"?
I knew you could!

If you suspend it so the eye can still see the ceiling as it fades into the shadow of the cloud it can add a lot of dimensionality to the space. Visual syncopation!

[xaMdaM]

Originally Posted by 666666
the splotches are right in the most "important" part of the ceiling, right over where the console will go

Then too... are people really gonna be looking at the ceiling or at the console?

[666666]

Just a few recent pics of the planking job, in progress. Again, this is the 5/16" thickness Home Depot pine "V-groove" planking, I believe the brand is "Pine Ridge" (Netherlands), though I can't find much info about it on the web.

Again, I would have preferred a thicker planking, but the roof system is already nearly overloaded at this point, so we wanted to use the lightest stuff possible. We will be covering the collar ties also with the planking and adding assorted pine trim moldings. Lower walls will be covered in bead-board type plywood which will be painted. Then the first 32" from the floor will have thick pine planking with a little shelf above. Will post more pics as things shape up.

[shortyedwards]

666666 (was that enough 6's?) - That is looking so good. I like the brightness of it and I'll bet it will be an optimistic atmosphere in there when you're done. Please keep updating this spot!

I have a question re: wood paneling. I have a single layer of sheetrock in my space and have been considering eventually adding another layer with green glue (when budget permits). If I were to use a wood paneling or wood planking over my current sheetrock would this be considered another leaf? Might this accomplish the extra isolation that my proposed sheetrock would offer (I have 1/2" and was thinking of adding 5/8" over that)? I sure would like the look of the wood better and if I can accomplish my iso needs all the better! I have some folks nearby who I could probably score some hemlock from for a decent price with a rough milled surface - that I'd probably lightly hit with tung oil. Thanks!

[666666]

Thanks!!!

If you add another layer of sheetrock DIRECTLY to your existing sheetrock (with Green Glue or without), it will NOT be considered another "leaf", but part of the existing leaf.

What I'd recommend... do NOT add another layer of sheetrock, but instead add a layer of 5/8" or 3/4" plywood... with Green Glue between the original sheetrock and new plywood. The plywood will make the installation of your paneling WAY easier as you can now nail anywhere. And 3/4" plywood provides about the same mass as 5/8" sheetrock. By comparison, having to worry about catching studs through two layers of sheetrock will be a headache and you'll need very long nails (especially if your planking is 3/4" thick and you'll be going in at an angle etc.) Yes, plywood is more expensive than sheetrock, but unless your area is tremendous, the extra cost would be well worth it.

And definitely do NOT add Green Glue under your finished planking... it will most definitely ooze out between the seams and cause a major irreparable mess. Once Green Glue gets on any surface, that's the end of it... trust me. That stuff is NASTY. But I do like the idea of adding plywood over the sheetrock with Green Glue in-between, then nailing your finished planking directly to the plywood.

You'll notice in the first of the three photos above, we DID add a layer of 3/8" plywood over the existing sheetrock to make planking installation easier. This was especially important since the planking we used is very thin and we needed to use very small staples to avoid splitting the planking. Such a small staple would not have penetrated the 5/8" sheetrock and 1/2" homasote that is already on the ceiling. So by adding a layer of 3/8" plywood (which is light, but thick enough to hold small staples well), we were now able to use small staples and shoot anywhere. The result was an installation process that was much quicker and easier than it could have been, and a good solid bond.

[shortyedwards]

Thanks 666666. I will print this out and save it. Very helpful info. Long live wood!

I'd also like some opinions as to the sonic benefits (if any) of a wood space versus a sheetrocked one. Better diffusion? Any difference at'all?

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by shortyedwards

Thanks 666666. I will print this out and save it. Very helpful info. Long live wood!

I'd also like some opinions as to the sonic benefits (if any) of a wood space versus a sheetrocked one. Better diffusion? Any difference at'all?

Depends who you ask.

Ethan will tell you there's no difference... at least not measurable, though his statement was based on that of a concrete floor vs a wood one... his opinion may be different on this example.

I like to think that because of the organic nature of wood, that the density varies, and thus the surface reflection/absorption variance while tiny, is still there. On a grand scale of an entire room filled with it, I'd think it "sounds" different... even though this density variance will likely only effect very high frequencies. Also, wood has a considerably different moisture content, and thus should effect the humidity of the room... though I'm talking out of my arse here.

This all assumes a tongue and groove, no gap wood paneling installation. Clearly if you were to employ slats with gaps, there'd be a huge difference to solid sheetrock.