New setup need advice on wires!

[Logicpro9_user]

Hi Guys,

I’m new to the forum! What a great forum it is! Mucho knowledge!!

Ok so I’m in a big of a pickle about my new setup and I want some advice on it,
Im had a good look about the forums but cant find anything like my setup....

I have made a little diagram of my setup, what cables would be best for all this????? I have a cables just now, but they are cheap and make a bussing noise!

WHAT WIRES TO GET??? (BEDROOM STUDIO!)

Any help would be great!

Thanks guys!

[jhbrandt]

--maybe the wrong posting area.. but...

Check your grounding and LOOP area. THAT may be the problem rather than cheap cables.

The shielding on cheap cables is sometimes insufficient and you may get a small amount of noise from that.. but you are running line level there (-10) and unless the EMI is incredible, bad shielding on your cables will not contribute much to your noise problem.

I would suggest that you bundle all of your power cords together and make sure that they are going to the same power outlet. (preferably on a 20A breaker and not using a vacuum cleaner in the house at the same time) -- just kidding.

The switching power supply on many laptops can be a problem, try unplugging the lappie and using it on battery to see if the problem disappears. If it does, try plugging it in the same strip as the G5. Try several things like this to find the problem area.

Does the Big Knob have a wall-wart power supply? if it is a linear supply (transformer in a box- it'll be heavy) then it could be the source of hum if your cables are within a foot from it. An unsheilded transformer will produce a smooth sounding Hummmmmmmm when you get an unbalanced line near them.

If your hum noise is hashy, buzzy, and such, you have either switching pwr sup hash or ground loop area picking it up.

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

-- John

[Logicpro9_user]

Hi John,

thanks for getting back to me, the Mackie BigKnob is heavy! I will go through each unit when i get home tonight. and more all power cable together and all sounds cable together, see if this helps.

Should I be using Balanced cables on all these units?

Computers (Lappy and G5) >>>> mackie bigknob >>>> to Mackie MR8s
Blalanced is better for sheilding?!

[ark]

Originally Posted by Logicpro9_user

Should I be using Balanced cables on all these units?

Balanced cables do not help unless the devices at both ends of the cable are balanced. The E-MU 0404's outputs are unbalanced, so balanced cables won't help there. Ditto for the laptop's output. The Big Knob's outputs appear from the wiring diagram in the manual to be unbalanced as well, although the MR8's inputs are balanced.

I would start by connecting one of the computers directly to the MR8. Is the hum there? If not, connect the same computer to the MR8 through the Big Knob. Hum now? If not, connect the second computer. Does hum appear in the signal from the first computer? If so, you have a ground loop.

[Logicpro9_user]

Ok, changed a few things....

Unbalanced Jack to Jack cable from G5 (EMU 0404) to Mackie Big Knob
Unbalanced Mini Jack to mono jack from MacBook Pro to Mackie Big Knob

Balanced Jack to XLR cables from Mackie big knob to Mackie MR8s.

The buzzing has GONE!

does the cabling sound right above? balanced and unbalanced mixed? I was told NOT to do this?

[jhbrandt]

Originally Posted by Logicpro9_user

Ok, changed a few things....

Unbalanced Jack to Jack cable from G5 (EMU 0404) to Mackie Big Knob
Unbalanced Mini Jack to mono jack from MacBook Pro to Mackie Big Knob

Balanced Jack to XLR cables from Mackie big knob to Mackie MR8s.

The buzzing has GONE!

does the cabling sound right above? balanced and unbalanced mixed? I was told NOT to do this?

Haha!... Usually whatever works is good.

As a rule unbalanced to unbalanced and balanced to balanced. Actually you can use balanced cables to everything, with the exception of active guitars and effects pedals. (Because they use a switch in the plug that shorts to the shield to turn the units on) But you should never us an unbalanced cable on a balanced input and some outputs.

This gives me an idea. I shall write a paper covering this topic and put it on my site in the next few weeks.

I'm happy your system is quiet now. Have fun!

Cheers,
- John

[Logicpro9_user]

Thnak you for all your help on this subject, I have made a new diagram for my setup.

Using balanced and Unbalanced Jack to jack and Jack to XLR all seems good! sounds good, and I get a batter low end (bass) from using the unbalanced jack to jack from the G5 to the Mackie Big Knob... weird i know anyho! here is my little diagram.

thanks again!

PS. next is bass traps!

[Logicpro9_user]

hhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm! the buzzing "Hum" started again, maybe something to do with the cables this time? balanced? unbalanced?

Im just not sure.... will change all the plugs to the same wall socket tonight to ground them to the same point, It seems to be the macbook pro when i touch it????? weird!

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by jhbrandt

--maybe the wrong posting area.. but...

Check your grounding and LOOP area. THAT may be the problem rather than cheap cables.

As usual John is right on target I think. That's where I'd look first.

Frank

[Logicpro9_user]

i have fixed the problem for good this time i think!

Using balanced and unbalanced cables...

This is what fixed it.

Unbalanced Jack to jack from Mac G5 to Mackie Big Knob
Balanced jack to XLR from Mackie Big Knob to Mackie MR8 Monitors

before I was using all balanced, and had a buzzing noise.

is there an inplacation in using a mixture of balanced and unbalanced cables on this setup (see latest diagram)

Sounds ok to me, great sounding infact! better than before.

[jhbrandt]

Bravo!

[Logicpro9_user]

So I have learned alot about cables! I thought it was only balanced cables for these sort of setups.

Is it a rule to use unbalanced cables from computer sound card (L/R) to sound controllers such as the Mackie big knob? And then Balanced cables from the controller to monitors? (L/R)

[Weasel9992]

No, it's not. As a matter of fact, in the design/build world we use 2-conductor (AKA "balanced") cable and TRS or XLR connectors for just about everything and specify the same in designs specifically to avoid the problem you're having. There's nothing about substituting unbalanced cable/connectors that should have solved the problem. I'd have to be there and trouble shoot it to know anything more.

Frank

[Logicpro9_user]

So buzzing and problems aside..... (as this has been fixed)

would it make a difference to my setup (above) if I used balanced and unbalanced cables like it has been set up just now (see above diagram)

Unbalanced from Mac G5 to Mackie Big Knob (L & R Cable)?

Balanced from Mackie Big Knob to Monitors (L & R Cable)?

Is this correct? is this the best way? if not what is?

Will it affect the sound in anyway? Is this setup correct? Or should I be using Balanced cables on everything?

[Weasel9992]

This is a longer discussion than we can really have here...I'd post this question in the "Low End Theory" forum. Suffice it to say that balanced cables are used for A.) noise rejection and B.) to maintain a balanced signal between balanced components. You'll get much more detailed responses if you post in the other forum.

Frank