Placing monitors across a corner rather than facing down a room

[bukman]

Hi,

I have been shifting my studio and monitor placement for some time trying to find the right acoustically neutral spot for my monitors and mix position.
Seems even with treatment the ability to get minimal nulls and peaks is proving difficult. In my room that is.

FYI my monitor and mix position placements have always stayed within the boundary of my room with parallel walls on my left and right assuming the symmetry of the monitors to the walls either side and behind was important.

Anyway I have reasonably decent sized space to work with and started wondering whether shifting my desk and monitors across the corner of the room would reduce the issues I have. By this I mean in my mix position I would face the 90 degree corner where the two room walls join. Th monitors would be placed symetrically to each other but both against different walls facing my mix position.

Seems when I look at the angles this seems like it could work to significantly reduce standing waves using the same treatment I currently have
Now can I ask whether this is an accepted principle for getting good results? Any pitfalls from me mixing music while facing the corner of a room and having my monitors across the corner rather than along a common wall boundary?

Cheers

[mobilemozart]

One thing it doesn't change is the sound of the room. It obviously changes your early reflection points on the sides.
I've seen an answer to this before from one of the experts in this field and it's not recommended, but not impossible. Depending on the layout of your room it might still be a good solution.

Originally Posted by bukman

Hi,

I have been shifting my studio and monitor placement for some time trying to find the right acoustically neutral spot for my monitors and mix position.
Seems even with treatment the ability to get minimal nulls and peaks is proving difficult. In my room that is.

FYI my monitor and mix position placements have always stayed within the boundary of my room with parallel walls on my left and right assuming the symmetry of the monitors to the walls either side and behind was important.

Anyway I have reasonably decent sized space to work with and started wondering whether shifting my desk and monitors across the corner of the room would reduce the issues I have. By this I mean in my mix position I would face the 90 degree corner where the two room walls join. Th monitors would be placed symetrically to each other but both against different walls facing my mix position.

Seems when I look at the angles this seems like it could work to significantly reduce standing waves using the same treatment I currently have
Now can I ask whether this is an accepted principle for getting good results? Any pitfalls from me mixing music while facing the corner of a room and having my monitors across the corner rather than along a common wall boundary?

Cheers

[mixmixmix]

bukman, I've used monitor placement you describe for last 2 years. I put bass trap in the corner, and adsorbers behind the speakers. Worked well for me. No desire to go back to old setup.The distance between the speakers is important ( should not be too close to each other or the walls).Experiment with the positioning / sweet spot for mixing and mastering. Once you find something you like, don't be guilty for not adhering to traditional setup, and ENJOY. Lack of guilt can take you as far as great technology.

Peace.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by bukman

trying to find the right acoustically neutral spot for my monitors and mix position.

There is no such thing. Every location is a compromise. The best you can aim for is the least damage.

wondering whether shifting my desk and monitors across the corner of the room would reduce the issues I have.

You could try that. The main problem facing a corner is that puts the opposite corner directly behind you. Corners focus the sound. Behind you should be the opposite - diffusion. Or at least lots of absorption. So if you face a corner, you'll need extra treatment behind you.

--Ethan

[bukman]

Thanks for the replies.

My room is actually slightly L shaped. Plan was to place the mix position in the bottom right corner of the L shape and have the monitors firing more at a long wall rather than corner. I was hoping with the room being long enough that most of the major waves would reflect up the long wall and dissipate away from where I am mixing.

Will give it a try and see how it goes. Will also report back the results.

Cheers

[bukman]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say I shifted the mix position into the corner as I was planning.

I can definitely say it made a huge difference. Bass is now much more defined and I can "feel" the kick drum now.
My first impressions were made using my reference tracks which completely transformed after the move.

Just to check what I was hearing I also did some room measurements. As I use a Mac and dont have fuzzmeasure I use IK Multimedia's ARC program to do my room response measurements.
It has a fairly rough room response graph but I can say the peaks and nulls have been significantly improved from the same measurements taken in more "traditional" mix positions I tried.
My aim is to avoid the use of ARC during mixing because although it compensated for most of my room issues it makes my reference mixes seem blurry. I really hated its sound as much as the sound of my room without it. I can now say I definitely dont need it.

FYI I have some new Event Opals that until now were disappointing me (with and without ARC). I can say now that they are sounding absolutely stellar.
The imaging is unbelievable.
They sit about 1.8 metres apart and the centre vocal image is scary.
Anyone who has complained about these monitors obviously has other acoustic issues they need to deal with first because if they heard what I heard yesterday they would be smiling from ear to ear.

Anyway just to tell you what treatment I have in conjuntion with corner mix position shift -
I have some large bass traps I had made from cloth wrapped fibreglass insulation packages that I put into the mix corner.
These are stacked with 2 side by side and 2 high to fully cover the corner behind the desk.
Average bass trap depth is about 50cm which is quite thick.

The bass traps are held in place by 2" moveable acoustic office screens that circle the entire wall around the mix position and also stand behind me to prevent rear reflections as well as to create a temporary wall that separates my mix area from the rest of the length of my room (which is the long L section I referred to above).

My monitors are placed either side of my desk against the office screens. Just behind the office screens are the room walls and external windows. There is very little gap between the speaker, office screen and wall behind.

I also have standard acoustic foam on the ceiling above my mix position at the first reflection points and to my right at the side reflection point where the acoustic screen does not extend to.

Key to the improvement I think is that there are no real areas that the bass waves can accumululate other than in the mix corner (which is well trapped). Everything else fires down and away from where I mix. There are enough angles around me that seem to dissipate much of the energy.
Will post a photo and room drawing soon if it helps anyone visualise this better.

I have to say I have been very frustrated and glad you guys gave me the confidence to try something a little out of the ordinary which seems to have solved my issues.

Cheers

[travisbrown]

This is sort of the position I'm proposing for my monitoring. Haven't quite decided yet:

Couple questions about room setup and treatment

[bukman]

If it helps to give you a comparison of your drawings to my set up -

- Where you have your mix desk my room has a standard room corner that I filled with the DIY traps and angled acoustic screen to effectively make the same shape mix wall you have in your diagram. My monitors are directly against this fake wall on stands.

Difference I imagine to your mix corner is that my fake wall is not reflective and would absorb (or let through) anything heading out from the rear of the monitors. This may make a difference.
Also not sure of the effects of having your speakers directly against the wall as you plan to have it. I have read this is not so bad a situation compared to moving the speakers further from the wall. Someone else may be able to comment on this.

In your left rear corner where you have your built in book case I have a wall about 1.5 metres long which I have thrown in another bass trap held up by an angled acoustic screen to create a fake angled corner. Imagine your books would provide similar absorbtion. Depends how high the bookshelf extends.

Where you have your piano through to your rear mix room corner my room has an acoustic screen wall divider and behind this is a separate room area that my sound can travel into.

I think Ethan said your rear wall and corner can work at that angle as long as you really build up the bass traps into the rear corner. Again the books may do their job as you plan.

Only other comment is I have a couch exactly where yours is sitting on the right wall. Dont really know whether it does much or not.
Also you will definitely have a reflection point on the wall above your right couch seat and likely just behind your right monitor that you will need to absorb somehow with some foam (not to mention your ceiling above the monitors).

Cheers

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by bukman

If it helps to give you a comparison of your drawings to my set up...

Thanks.

I'm going to respond in Couple questions about room setup and treatment, just because I don't want to jack the thread, and there are pictures.