recording studio on an "Office building" ?

[fossaree]

Hey , how's everyone?

SO here it goes : I'm off to buy a place to set up my new studio . However where I do live , the best deals and offers I'm finding are basically located on "offices buildings" ... Wich means , tall buildings with lots of commercial offices (lawyers, dentisty, offices and variety of activities) . Building sometimes with 14 floors ... +/- .

These rooms I'm talking about are generally between 2,75 - 3 m ceiling (7 - 9 feet) , and between 60 - 85 m2 of free area (195 - 270 feet).

I've searched here on GS any similar studio set up , but couldn't find so far . It seems that the majority of studios are located on houses or ground based facilities .


Do you think it's possible to isolate and treat it eficiently for a pro commercial studio ?
(24/7)

I've been reading PHILIP NEWELL's book and sometimes I feel enouraged , sometimes I don't at all .

I've heard about recording studios in such facilities but I'd like to hear people on GS and their advices !


Just in case I'm not making myself clear enough , I've atached some pics of this kind of rooms I'm talking about . (not necessarily the ones i've seen , just example pics!)

Thanks everyone for your future tips thumbsup

[fossaree]

Ok , forgot to mention that i'll be tracking drums , actually my main concern .

Of course , I think the first and last floor would be the more suitable ones . And the ones that wouldn't have an office next to my room. (I.E. buildings that have like 2 offices per floor and layed like one room on the front side and the other on the back side of the building.)

For sure , box-in-a-box seems the way to go once I'm into this kind of building .


Also , not only the isolation itself worries me ... Of course I'd like to have a great sounding room !!! Room for making nice recordings ...

[spm_gl]

It is possible, sure, but I don't know if it's worth the effort. You'll always have an office-vibe to your studio.
My main concern would be the weight of the room-in-room construction. Office buildings usually have a rather low weight per unit area allowance, because normally you only have a few people and desks. So even if you find a nice space, talk to a construction engineer before buying.

[fossaree]

Hey Jan , thanks ;-)


As a matter of fact , it seems that old office buildings have more reinforced structures to hold a box-in-box ... Then again , it's not a rule ... It's just that newer building are extremely fragiles !!! But talking to an engineer would be a nice idea .

My main concern is just if it's possible ...


You're completely right regarding "office vibe"... That's so true mate !
However , they're so much cheaper and easier to find that I could invest a lot more on acoustics ...


Oh Gosh !!!!

[spm_gl]

Just remember, if you do a room-in-room, which you'll need to in an office building, you'll lose around 30cm of height. So a 2.5m ceiling is only 2.2m room height, add some lamps and you'll fry tall peoples hair.
Concerning the floor load, we have an old school building, with 750kg/m² weight allowance on the second floor, which is quite sturdy. But our tracking room weighs 4 tons, despite lightweight construction. And no matter what we do, it still feels like a school some days.

[fabricaudio]

Originally Posted by spm_gl

Just remember, if you do a room-in-room, which you'll need to in an office building, you'll lose around 30cm of height. So a 2.5m ceiling is only 2.2m room height, add some lamps and you'll fry tall peoples hair.

Correct!!! Our studio is a building with offices, but the load it can handle is 500kg/m2, so the construction was not risky. The only difference is that we own the building so we were quite flexible. Lets say you do everything perfect and soundproof. The problem is the annoyance of building to the neighbors until you build it. I suggest to keep looking


Nikolas

[fossaree]

Hey Nikolas thank you too .

Once you're the owner of the building , it's easier ;-) .

Unfortunately , that's not my case ...


On the good side , there 're some buildings with an amazing sight view of the city ... wich might be some interesting to have a tracking room with a view ...

[spm_gl]

Building a tracking room with a view in an office tower is a good idea, if you have that kind of budget. Then again, if you do, you could rent a much nicer, larger space somewhere else

[Weasel9992]

I know of two very high-end studios built in office buildings, and both of them were a total nightmare in terms of isolation. Both had **HUGE** issues with low frequency mechanical transmission and both owners swore they would never again build a studio in an office building. My experience with both of these guys was that the problem lies in the difficultly of decoupling the room within a room from the rest of the building.

Frank

[fossaree]

Frank , this you're telling me makes me feel totally insecure about it !



I've found also , some places like " stores" on the ground level of residential buildings .
Wich means that I'd have (possibly) people living on upper levels ... Say , like 5 meters above ( but , at least with reinforced cemented floor as separation .)
This scenario I've been faced quite easily . Just as with room in office buildings .


Another scenario , almost the same as above mentioned , but with commercial offices on upper floors .



That's the bad thing about big cities !!!

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by fossaree

Frank , this you're telling me makes me feel totally insecure about it !

Sorry man. I read your post and thought of those other guys who invested not thousands, or hundreds of thousands, but *millions* into their room and their gear, then the acoustic issues drove them nuts.

I'd feel better about a ground floor kind of thing I think.

Frank

[fossaree]

Frank and others , your statements are very helpful and I deeply apreciate them .
Thanks a million

How about this other scenario :

A house , with 2 floors (ground and first floor) with no residential neighbours , but the available room would be the one above , first floor . Downstairs (i.e ground level) there's a rental movie store . Wich means I'd be above the store , but this time is a house not really a building .

It's available for renting and is actually pretty close to where I live - walking distance !!!

Any thoughts?

[spm_gl]

Ground level is always easier. We have our studio rooms on the upper floor, and our own offices below. But that means isolating the floors and ceilings well, which increases the construction costs.
Its actually a cost optimization issue. If you pay more for a better space, you'll save on the construction.
Is the space above the movie rental large enough? High enough? Sturdy enough? Secure enough? Is the landlord okay?
I wouldn't rush the decision. We spent nearly a year searching for a good place, and in the end rented an entire building (600m²) for less than we would have payed for 100m² elsewhere.

[Sugarnutz]

I bought a 24 track tape machine from Atlantic Studios in NYC back in the mid 80's. The studios there occupied several floors in an office building starting at the 3rd or 4th floor if I remember correctly. Didn't look around a bunch, they had one studio under renovation/construction. Being in an office building didn't seem to effect them too much, but there are some deep pockets at Atlantic for things like that. Unless you got a half million or so $$ around for isolation, building modifications, etc.... I'd find something a little more like one or two levels.

[fossaree]

Originally Posted by spm_gl

I wouldn't rush the decision. We spent nearly a year searching for a good place

Dear Jan , this seems to be the point ... I'm just very very anxious because it hasn't been an easy task to find a good place . But perhaps if I calm things a little down I may breath a fresh air and find something rushless !

You're totally right and as "mea culpa" I must admit there's no reason to rush things !

Originally Posted by Sugarnutz

Unless you got a half million or so $$ around for isolation, building modifications, etc.... I'd find something a little more like one or two levels.

That's the thing Sugar !!! I haven't got that amount of money ... I need to get things easier .




You guys are being fantastic Nice ideas and thoughts I was told by you .
Thanks !!!

[wwittman]

Lots of terrific studios (someone already mentioned Atlantic; also Record Plant NY , RCA NY, and AIR in Oxford Circus come to mind) were in office buildings.

and certainly didn't look 'office like' inside.

Strictly speaking, isn't Capitol in an office building?

A good architect can make it work.
But naturally you WILL have to build within the existing space and will lose some real estate to isolation.

[fossaree]

Originally Posted by wwittman

A good architect can make it work.
But naturally you WILL have to build within the existing space and will lose some real estate to isolation.

Well there are some work arounds I could aproach if I' d go in this direction .

What comes to mind for example , this buildings are generally 24 h , therefore I could track drums after 6 pm ... Drums is basically the biggest problem . Other stuff would be easily handled regarding isolation and costs .

Say , a mixing room wouldn't be a big deal to isolate nor the tracking room when tracking guitars , vocals and keyboards during business time .


It isn't a pro solution anyway ... as I've stated , a work around ...

[spm_gl]

Originally Posted by wwittman

Lots of terrific studios (someone already mentioned Atlantic; also Record Plant NY , RCA NY, and AIR in Oxford Circus come to mind) were in office buildings.

They also had terrific construction budgets.

What comes to mind for example , this buildings are generally 24 h , therefore I could track drums after 6 pm ... Drums is basically the biggest problem . Other stuff would be easily handled regarding isolation and costs .

Not sure if that will work. The landlord, or even the construction regulation authority in your country, will have their own ideas regarding the minimum isolation you need. Once the neighbours hear you, it's too late.

[Darius van H]

Seems like a bad idea to me. With the ceiling height in the typical office building, how can you isolate properly and keep good (acoustically) ceiling heights in your rooms?

Wasn't there a post studio in London recently that went bankrupt 'cause they did this then had isolation issues?

Where i live, offices are more expensive then industrial spaces (which to me are more suitable for a studio).

Obviously the atmosphere on a typical industrial estate is not that all that conducive to recording studio vibeyness (for mastering it's not really an issue)

A pro commercial studio where you can only track drums after 6pm.........you're joking, right?

Just some random thoughts.

[fossaree]

Hey Darius , thank you for your input !

No , it is not a pro solution , it would be a work around as I've stated on my previous post - as can you read there ;-) .




I think our german mate Jan was very happy in his toughts . Patience holds the key !
As everything in life , actually




And regarding the VIBE matter , much of it has to do to inside the facilities itself .
But as always , likely neighbours are welcome

[sweetalbi]

I built my 4 rehearsal studios in a 14 floor office building over 13 years ago and I've had maybe 3 complaints,LOL! My over 30 tons of sheetrock probably have something to do with it,ha!
The weight thing could be an issue, so make certain that the building can handle the load.
I had all of this weight spread out over 4000 sq feet, so it wasn't such an issue.
You can't get away with not building a room within a room. Material is one thing but technique in the floating room concept is key.
One suggestion is that you can ask for an area that is closer to the middle of floor away from the perimeter window space. Everyone wants windows for their office... but I only use the perimeter area of my floor space for my lounge area and my office. My studios obviously don't need windows to the outside world... therefore I got a great deal occupying a relatively unused area of the floor. My building uses this space for storage on other floors....so low rumble leaks into an unmanned area. So below me is the changing rooms to a popular Gym and above me is a Storage area.
Check out your options.
Albi
Welcome to Base Bin Studios dot Com - For ALL your professional rehearsal needs

[fossaree]

alo Albi , ça va ? merci pour votre message !

I think it's awesome your studio , I'm impressed ;-) .

So basically you've got 4 rooms , all them isolated and treated and you come to
have no complaining at all , wich means it's a pro facility !

By the way , what's the ceiling height ( before & after treatment/isolation) ?

[sweetalbi]

Originally Posted by fossaree

alo Albi , ça va ? merci pour votre message !

I think it's awesome your studio , I'm impressed ;-) .

So basically you've got 4 rooms , all them isolated and treated and you come to
have no complaining at all , wich means it's a pro facility !

By the way , what's the ceiling height ( before & after treatment/isolation) ?

Thanks et Merci LOL,
The ceiling hight was about 14 feet high in it's original state. The ducting for my ten ton water cooled air conditioner unit took allot of that space away :( around two feet. Ask the contractor to research for narrower ducts to save some of that precious hight. In the end after I had my spring floating 2 layer Sheetrock ceiling...It came down to around ten feet. That two extra feet would of been AMAZING! Oh well...that's life.

[fossaree]

Albi, are you tracking as well on your studio or is it just for rehearsal ?

You've mentioned you had some complaining once in a blue moon , what was it related to ?

Thanks!



Today I'm gonna see an office . Good deal ... I'm taking an acoustic engineer with me , let's see what he says ... It's a 2 levels building and this room is on the 2nd one , so no neighbours above .

I'll report here later , perhaps with some pics and measures !

[fossaree]

Hey Nikolas ,
I'm not sure you're subscribed to this thread , but I just wanted to say that I've visited your studio's web , and I loved your studio ;-)

Pretty cool ,actually !

[fossaree]

Ok guys , I'm about to make a deal on an office building ... Actually it's not really like the ones I've posted earlier on this thread ... It's a 2 floor building , old construction (wich in this case means sturdy!) . Mine would be on the second floor , so no neighbours upstairs .

Its area is 70m2 , and it has a ceiling of 2,8 m . There's just one sided neighbour , but I can handle to don't have my recording room next to it . I can place my recording room sided to the other side wich there's nothing over there .

I could be worried with my downstairs neighbour , in this case a dentist . But I'm ALMOST quite sure , that with a proper floating floor and a good box-in-a-box project
there won't be any problems . I've taken an ac. eng. over there , and he's said it's ok ...

Im posting some pics of this place . It's a really good deal , and it saves me acres of money to put it on acoustics ... I'm sketching it up with Google sketch , and might upload my initial ideas ...

I didn't sign yet ... but I am really almost doing !

[fossaree]

a little bump !