Listening position in a small room

[The Magic Hoof]

For those of you in a small room or just anyone who has any input, here's my situation: 10X10X8 room, not so good of a size. I've been experimenting with listening positions and it seems that things sound the best to me when I sit wayyyy back. Using the 38% rule and using the equilateral triangle, it actually puts me at dead in the middle of the room which is supposedly a terrible thing. When I sit at 50% of the room and even more toward the monitors, I lose bass response like you wouldn't believe. I've discovered that moving back a couple feet brings back all of the 'oomph' in the bass that had been missing, but that's putting me just a couple feet off the back wall. So, my listening position is like this.

I've got my monitors about 4 and a half feet apart near the front wall, but I've got to sit back a bit more than that to get the oomph that's missing remember? So that means my monitors are 4 and a half feet apart and I'm sitting rougly 6 feet away from them, which puts me just a couple feet off the back wall. That means the triangle isn't going to be possible, and I'm not sure if the 'focal point' I think it's called is very important and I'll need to let that hit my ears perfectly. It should be a couple feet in front of me or so since I'm back 6 feet and monitors have the 4' triangle going on.

That's about all the info that I can give you. I wanted to know what everyone thinks of this and what they'd do in the same situation.

One last question - if I've got my monitors 4 feet apart but I sit 6 feet away, should I move the monitors apart a bit more? However, that'd mean they'd be near the corners of the room.

Using my elite photoshop skills, I was able to come up with this diagram.

[bpape]

Not sure how sitting at 38% is putting you at the middle of the room. Seated ear position would be either 3.8' or 6.2' from the wall in front of you.

I'd think sitting 6.2' from ears to front wall would still allow you to have the monitors closer to the front wall for bottom end reinforcement. Play with monitor spacing trying to keep baffle to wall behind and center of drivers to side wall at a different dimension.

In a smaller square room like that, you're going to need a good amount of broadband bass control to smooth things out. I suspect that would give you a lot more flexibility. Right now, you're going to have peaks and nulls everywhere.

Bryan

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by The Magic Hoof

Using my elite photoshop skills, I was able to come up with this diagram.

Bryan has the right advice as usual. I suggest you make an equal triangle between yourself and both speakers, set to about 3 feet apart. Then sit near-field about 4 feet back from the front wall. Besides corner bass traps you also need absorption at the side-wall (and ceiling) reflection points. The room is so small that you also need absorption on the rear wall behind you.

--Ethan

[Glenn Kuras]

The room is so small that you also need absorption on the rear wall behind you.

Which I would recommend 6" thick.

[The Magic Hoof]

Here's the deal.

If I use the 38% rule and sit 3'8" like mentioned above, that will put me at about 5 feet back from the front wall which is 50% of the room (which is - so I've heard - an absolutely terrible position, and it's where all of the bass disappears). The reason being that I've got to take the monitors into account as well (depth). 3 feet 8 inches versus 5 feet isn't that much, but in a small room, it can mean a lot. The depth of the monitors is about a foot from the front wall, so that's 4'8 feet, which would equal around 5 feet in total (puts me at 50% mark). I've discussed all of this with Frank and we both came to the conclusion that sitting back would be my best bet, but I wanted to get some other advice/opinions here about it.

I've tested with my ears a lot, and sitting back that far just seems so much more full. No matter what I do, moving forward a bit always takes lots out the bass response that I need when monitoring, or else I'll use wayyyy too much bass in my mixes.

By the way - I've got trapping in there and I'm about to double up on what I have as well. I'm doing the best I can with the trapping - that'll take care of itself, so it's really just a matter of finding the most accurate listening position now.

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by The Magic Hoof

Here's the deal.

If I use the 38% rule and sit 3'8" like mentioned above, that will put me at about 5 feet back from the front wall which is 50% of the room (which is - so I've heard - an absolutely terrible position, and it's where all of the bass disappears)

There's 38% of the room, and 50% or the room. You can't be two places at once, unless you are really into Heisenberg and haven't been observed... but I digress with the overly nerdy humor. I think you are looking at 38% of the wrong thing.

50% of the room is indeed bad, which is why 38% is better. You can also go 38% from the back wall instead of the front. This often helps in small rooms, but you'll probably want some absorption behind you in that case.

Also, 38% is a starting guideline only, and since it was originally conceived for soffit mounted monitors, you're already changing the variables before you even begin. It's a good place to start, but by no means "a rule" that works every time, or even a lot of the time. It's usually at least in the ballpark, and you adjust as necessary.

[ciro]

50% placement is a null point of the first mode (around 56hz for L/W and 72hz for height).You should expect a "hole" at this points.

Unfortunatelly for height dimension 50% is 4', a common ear (technician) and woofer level (speakers).

Try everything that´s possible (speaker + your position + measurements with software).
And more bass traps, for sure (in a room that size, a bigger area) will helps to minimize this nasty nulls and peaks , even when the ideal (or "near") placement is not possible.

Ciro

[The Magic Hoof]

Thanks for the replies. If I do sit at 38% of the room or at 50%, the bass response disappears and I need it there because I was putting way too much in there. All I can say is that when I move farther back, it sounds much better and I can keep things under control better there than anywhere else. a 10X10 foot room is what I've got to deal with, and my ears are telling me a bit farther back is best. In fact, that's putting me in the ballpark of the 38% rule but from the back of the room like mentioned above. The math pf this says one thing, but my ears tell me differently


I've got more bass trapping coming and things will improve a bit. I've still got more testing to do. I'll be posting those whenever I get my new trapping, in multiple listening positions!

[Glenn Kuras]

In fact, that's putting me in the ballpark of the 38% rule but from the back of the room like mentioned above. The math pf this says one thing, but my ears tell me differently

Well there go!!