Green Glue & Clips vs Double Studded Walls

[djgizmo]

Also I've been reading some comparison between Green Glue+Isolation Clips vs Double Studded Walls.

Some sites say that Gleen Glue + Isolation clips +Single Studded Walls are less expensive and more effective than double studded walls.

Any truth to this in reality?

Thanks!

[Jedanor]

I don't buy that logic. I have tested numerous partitions as per ASTM E336 and double studs always outperform single studs of the same general construction and quality hands down. A damping compound isn't going to change that. Neither will RC-1. This does not mean you cannot achieve good results with single studs.

Quiet Rock claims acoustical equivalency to 8 layers of GWB and that is a myth too. There is a lot of marketing hype and misrepresentation out there on the net.

Jed

[AudioBobW]

A couple years ago, I built a studio for a client using Quiet Rock. I was skeptical at first as they would not guarantee the results. They did claim the 8 layers of drywall equivalent though...I explained how I was going to build the studio, and they still would not guarantee their product!
Figuring the time and labor to do a layer of 1/2" and 5/8" drywall with sound board sandwiched between, we made the decision to go with Quiet Rock to save time and possibly a little money.
The studio has a control room, a good sized Iso room, and a small Iso booth. Each room has it's own walls and ceiling. Basically 3 rooms within a room.
On a common concrete floor (no cuts), I floated the walls on 1/2" open cell neoprene, 2x4 studs, R13 insulation, 1/2" plywood, and 5/8" Quiet Rock w/ the metal core. I used their caulking for the joints of the QR. Messy stuff...use it carefully.
The windows and doors are Oak framed with neoprene seals. There is an air gap between the walls- about an inch.
The floors in the Iso rooms are hardwood on plywood with a vapor barrier over the concrete. The control room was the same, but with carpet and padding, with a small area of hardwood floor behind the console.

The owner had his first session and called me in after to talk with me about something. He wouldn't let on about what he wanted to talk about. It was either really good news, or really bad...
He played back a soloed vocal track (recorded in the small Iso room). There was a clicking sound that I heard between the vocal lines. It turns out the singer was playing a Wurlitzer keyboard, and I was hearing the keys going up and down. He then took the track out of solo, and the band was jamming! The drummer was going full tilt, just 6' away in the large Iso room. There was no drum leakage on the vocal track at all!
Needless to say it was great news that the Quiet Rock passed the test.
I'm a fan!
You still need to have double walls with an air gap for the best isolation. That's the key- Isolation! Don't poke a bunch of holes in the wall for outlets and switches either. Run them into the room at some point away from the other rooms, and mount the conduit and boxes to the wall inside the room.
I hope this helps in your decision.

Good luck with your project!

Bob

[djgizmo]

Understood. Thank you for your real world explanation. This is my first attempt at anything like this and I'm a bit nervous as I just want to do it right the first time.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by Jedanor

I don't buy that logic. I have tested numerous partitions as per ASTM E336 and double studs always outperform single studs of the same general construction and quality hands down. A damping compound isn't going to change that. Neither will RC-1. This does not mean you cannot achieve good results with single studs.

Great post, Jed. thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Frank

[jwl]

Regarding clips vs. double studded walls, what you really want is a 2-leaf system, with each leaf having as much mass as possible. 2 layers of sheetrock with greenglue in between for each leaf gives great results and is very cost-effective.

Which plan would be better for you depends on how the construction is. By 2-leaf I mean Mass - Air - Mass.... how is the space now? What sort of construction?

[djgizmo]

Well, I moving into a house we're getting ready to close on....

I have the option of 3 areas.
Area 1 is a front living room of the house.
Area 2 is the 1 single door garage (basically same size as Area 1)
Area 3 is the entire 3 car garage , but I need to leave room to get to the break box, hot water heater, emergency water shutoff valve and door to get into the house.

I've attached pics / sketchups of the areas.

[JoanaC]

Wow Bob thanks for the information. I am totally pleased.

I want to sound proof my room. I think a layer of QuietRock which is priced at $40 stated in their site should do. I also found in my research that QuietGlue is similar to GreenGlue and it is $30 cheaper

[Ted White]

Hi JoanaC. I see you're making the rounds today on the various forums.

Quiet Glue isn't similar to Green Glue, though you've said this on several forums. Here's actual data: Green Glue -vs- Engineered Damping Glue

Provided by Orfield Laboratories, a fully NVLAP certified acoustic facility.

In actuality to get the same performance, Green Glue is much less expensive, given that you have to use 3-4x the volume of other damping materials to achieve the same performance. See the independent data in the link above.

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by JoanaC

Wow Bob thanks for the information. I am totally pleased.

I want to sound proof my room. I think a layer of QuietRock which is priced at $40 stated in their site should do. I also found in my research that QuietGlue is similar to GreenGlue and it is $30 cheaper

For that kind of money for quietrock you can buy a LOT of drywall and get better performance..........

Rod

[djgizmo]

While I agree with rod, sometimes space is an issue and I think thts where quietrock excels in. Per sqr foot quiet rock better than regular drywall.

I know I have visited this thread in a while and I eventually decided to go with just a single room in the single car garage area. I didn't use quiet rock however I would if inches mattered. For my needs, it works fantastic and kept my building costs down as well.

[SAC]

Here's a radical idea.

Before simply posting some amorphous question positing as to whether Sandy Koufax would beat Dwight Gooden, or whether Godzilla, teamed with Mothra, would beat The Hulk teamed with Popeye- and what difference it would make if Popeye ate organic spinach; it would make a bit more sense to examine actual tested models of the various configurations (and PRESENT them with your Franken-question), before simply building the question pulling on various pieces and parts of the various configurations.

Unless the real purpose is to simply elicit still more emotionally based responses based on more objectively unsubstantiated guesses and assumptions not in evidence.

But I am guessing that with a little research one could assemble (at least most of) the information regarding each of the various component systems such that comparisons could be made objectively.

Personally, I think that Godzilla and Mothra would take The Hulk and Popeye's as even with the organic spinach, the increase in pollution and non-point pesticide sources would more than empower Mothra's diet and offset Popeye's initial advantage. But then, it may all be a moot point if the additional troops indeed cause Guam to "tip over" as the erudite Democratic Congressman Hank Johnson has suggested...

Come to think of it, why isn't Hank Johnson posting here?

[Rod Gervais]

This is actually almost foolish beyond belief.......... Time for a reality check here.........



The following is information (pricing and isolation values) taken straight from the Quietrock site........

Let's first make a few assumptions:

let's assume that their double wall assembly used only 1/2" drywall on the side opposite the 1/2" quietrock

We will use their numbers for the cost of their product and assume that the product was their least expensive (they do not verify this) but just to be fair we will make that assumption........

And we will not bother about the costs associated with the remainder of the construction - meaning studs, insulation, etc because we will make that exactly the same for either wall.......

OK - the wall frame thickness plus quietrock and drywall = A + 1"

The wall frame plus double 5/8" drywall = A + 2 1/2"

So we are talking a loss of 3" (3/4" each side of the wall so really 1 1/2 per room width - but lets look at this worse case), you loose that much usable floor space by just installing a 3/4" baseboard each side of the walls - so could always get creative and use a vinyl base - which is only 1/8" thick - so not we are only talking a total loss with the drywall assembly of 1/2". But we will set that aside .... it was just a thought.

It all comes down to simple numbers - answering the question "what is the stinking cost?"

Let's make our room (just for simplicity's sake) 8' and 16' wide x 24' deep.

Inside the room that would be a total of (just for walls now) 20 sheets either side of the walls for a single layer........ (right? 4 sheets of 4 for 16' wall (one face) so 8 sheets per wall 2 = 16 sheets, and then 6 sheets of 4' for a 24' wall (one face) so 12 sheets per wall = 12 x 2 for 24. So the total for one room that sice - both wall faces is 24 + 16 for a total of 40 sheets to do the job.

20 sheets inside - 20 sheets outside.Pricing for drywall current home despot numbers........

OK - 20 sheets of 1/2 drywall @ $9.98 = 199.60

20 sheets of Quiet rock @ 40 each = 800 dollars

the 5/8 is going to be doubled - so that is 40 sheets each face for a total of 80each side @ $11.83 per sheet = $ 946.4


So the total cost differential for a room Constructed using Quietrock is a premium of 53.2 USD.

The STC rating for the Quietrock wall is 62 - and for the double 5/8 drywall it's 63 - so for all intent and purpose they are exactly the same isolation.

Let's assume for a moment that we were really loosing the real estate - let's see what we actually get back in square footage and what the cost is for what we regain

24 + 24 + 16 + 16 is is a total of 3" x 80 lf = 240 square inches - which is 1.67 square feet - and it would actually be less than that because you are bound to have at least one door opening in the room - and there is no gain or loss at door openings regardless which material is on the wall.

So all of this translates us spending a total of 53.20 plus tax (in Connecticut that's a 6% sales tax), which would be a total of 56.39 for to gain 1.67 s.f. of real estate. (.83 s.f. per room)

People are looking her for advice to save pennies here and pennies there - and the suggestion of the day is to through away 34 a square foot to gain a couple of inches in a room?

Makes no sense in my world.........

Rod

[djgizmo]

Rod I hope you didn't get the impression that I thought quiet rock is more economical or more cost efficient by anymeans becuase of course it isn't.

The real space savings start to add up when you would normally double up quiet rock instead of using 4 layers of 5/8th alternate material. 3 to 5 inches saved here or there might be vital to certain studios.

Personally I could never justify it for myself as I don't/didn't have that build restriction, but if it did, I'd consider quiet rock.

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by djgizmo

Rod I hope you didn't get the impression that I thought quiet rock is more economical or more cost efficient by anymeans becuase of course it isn't.

The real space savings start to add up when you would normally double up quiet rock instead of using 4 layers of 5/8th alternate material. 3 to 5 inches saved here or there might be vital to certain studios.

Personally I could never justify it for myself as I don't/didn't have that build restriction, but if it did, I'd consider quiet rock.

If that was the case - then using Green Glue with just 2 layers of drywall - you get isolation equivalent to 4 layers of drywall ( and this level of cannot be equaled using quietglue) without the loss of any additional space - and TONS cheaper than quietrock.

Once again - I work in construction situations where both real estate and isolation levels are big considerations - and am not afraid to specify the most expensive products if that is what it takes to get the job done - and there is no way I could ever justify to my clients the use of either of these products.

I am not saying they can't get the same job done- but that the added costs mean there are ALWAYS better options, and I work on huge projects with huge budgets.

Rod

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by djgizmo

Rod I hope you didn't get the impression that I thought quiet rock is more economical or more cost efficient by anymeans becuase of course it isn't.

The real space savings start to add up when you would normally double up quiet rock instead of using 4 layers of 5/8th alternate material. 3 to 5 inches saved here or there might be vital to certain studios.

Personally I could never justify it for myself as I don't/didn't have that build restriction, but if it did, I'd consider quiet rock.

Most of the time its one or the other; either a double wall with a GOOD space and packed with pink, or less space and use the $$$ stuff...IF you want/need very good isolation.
Seen too many GOOD studios use the first suggestion with VERY good results..

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by Rod Gervais

Once again - I work in construction situations where both real estate and isolation levels are big considerations - and am not afraid to specify the most expensive products if that is what it takes to get the job done - and there is no way I could ever justify to my clients the use of either of these products.

I am not saying they can't get the same job done- but that the added costs mean there are ALWAYS better options, and I work on huge projects with huge budgets.

Rod

It's good to get your point of view as I respect your opinion (ok more than that, I hold it in high regard).

I don't know why someone bumped this thread up from last year about quietglue... but i guess it is what it is.

Not that anyone asked... but I did go with double studded walls, with double layers of 1/2" drywall and green glue. Finished it back in October.