23rd March 2009
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#1 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Basement Sudio Hang-ups
I'm rebuilding 90% of my basement to have a new control room and refitting the main room as a tracking room/living room which will include a few couches and a TV. I have several questions that pertain to my control room design. I am also hoping to get some suggestions as to how I can improve my design for functionality as well as sound.
Isolation is only a moderate concern for me as I have tracked in this area without any isolation (not even drywall on the ceiling) in the past so I imagine that standard isolation techniques will do just fine. The biggest problem with isolation is foot falls over the tracking area.
It will be used mainly for personal use. I do mostly rock stuff like Rage Against the Machine or Audioslave, however, I'm starting to do more Steely Dan and Stevie Wonder type stuff.
The control room can be nearly any size but I'm trying to keep it within 8'9"(H)x11'6"(W)x14'3"(L) (105"x138"x171") this ratio is 1:1.31:1.63. The closest recommended mode I can find is 1:1.26:1.59 which would make my room 8'9"x11'x13'11" (105"x132"x167").
1)How much difference are we talking for me to make this room the max size as opposed to the recommended mode size?
I'm planning on building the control room as a room in a room design. 2x4 construction with two walls on the interior sides, and concrete walls and 2x4 walls on the exterior walls.
2)Is it a problem if the air gap between the poured concrete exterior walls and adjacent interior walls is different? This may not be necessary depending on size.
If you look at the sketchups I attached you'll see that, with this size 8'9"x11'6"x14'3," my room has a few problems. I have a window in this room which I'd like to keep. I have two ductwork mains which will require a sofit. This is in the backside of the control room and will be semetrical to the mixing position.
3) Is this sofit going to be so troublesome that I should consider a completely different design? Is it worth making the room smaller? Can bass trapping and broadband absorption fully (or mostly) cure the problems created by the sofit?
There will be two doors in my control room. One will be an entry and the other will lead to a closet. I have no plans for the closet yet because I still don't know the shape of the room. The closet is a necesity because I intend to call this a bedroom when I sell. The closet door will be centered on the rear wall.
4)Where on the side wall should the entry door be? I assume that it's better if it's closer to the back wall... Does the closet door need to be sound proof if the closet behind it is double walled? Could I use this closet as a vocal room?
5)Should I consider an oddly shaped room? I'm willing to try anything if it sounds convincing. I think it could get me away from the ductwork, but it may destroy my semmetry because the window can't be moved.
Thanks in advance for your help. This is likely to be a long process and I intend spend arround $7500 by the time I'm done. I will do all the construction myself.
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23rd March 2009
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#2 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 13,066
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My main comment is that's an awfully small room, especially considering all the space you have to work with. If you make it twice as large, then you'll have something worth sinking $7,500 into.
For a control room keep it fully symmetrical. And put any doors away from corners and behind the mix position.
--Ethan
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23rd March 2009
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#3 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer  My main comment is that's an awfully small room, especially considering all the space you have to work with. If you make it twice as large, then you'll have something worth sinking $7,500 into.
For a control room keep it fully symmetrical. And put any doors away from corners and behind the mix position.
--Ethan | First of all thanks for taking the time to look at all my stuff. I know it's a lot, but I see too many people asking for help but providing minimal info.
I was afraid that it was too small. How big is "big enough"? I bought this house because the basement was so large and the ceilings were so high (relative to other basements in STL). I've been waiting a long time to have the time and resources to start this project so I want to know that the time spent was worth it.
My concerns about making it larger are:
1) If I get larger down the long wall (62') I will need to use drop ceiling tiles because I will be under the kitchen. Is this acceptable? I can still build a cloud and trap the hell out of the room.
2) If I get larger into the laundry room the sofit around the heating ducts and steel I-beam will be in the middle of the room. Is this okay? Is it better than the smaller room?
3) If I go in either direction I run the risk of overtaking the laundry area. I can move the laundry into the furnace room but it's gonna cost more money.
Thanks again. I hope to post real pics of the space soon...
Anthony
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24th March 2009
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#4 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 13,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonySpinali How big is "big enough"? | 1500 cubic feet is the absolute minimum, and 2500 cubic feet is a more realistic minimum for professional results. More here: Graphical Mode Calculator Quote: |
1) If I get larger down the long wall (62') I will need to use drop ceiling tiles because I will be under the kitchen. Is this acceptable? I can still build a cloud and trap the hell out of the room.
| You could use a drop ceiling, or you could treat the ceiling as shown in this video tour of my partner's basement studio: The Ultimate Home Studio Quote: |
2) If I get larger into the laundry room the sofit around the heating ducts and steel I-beam will be in the middle of the room. Is this okay? Is it better than the smaller room?
| Is there no other place where the ceiling is clear and free of ducts?
--Ethan
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24th March 2009
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#5 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer 1500 cubic feet is the absolute minimum, and 2500 cubic feet is a more realistic minimum for professional results. More here: Graphical Mode Calculator
You could use a drop ceiling, or you could treat the ceiling as shown in this video tour of my partner's basement studio: The Ultimate Home Studio
Is there no other place where the ceiling is clear and free of ducts?
--Ethan | I used the Real Traps mode calculator to find the dimensions that I listed. Thanks for providing that by the way!
If I drop the whole ceiling to 96" then I could build a room on that side of the building completely free of soffits and ducts. Is this better?
I talked to the wife and she is "cool" with moving the laundry so I could (if I can afford it) make the control room twice as big... This really depends on what you guys have to say about the soffit or the lower ceiling.
There is totally clear space on the other side of the basement but the ceilings are only 88" not counting the ductwork (77"). This is because the living room above drops 18".
The main reason for the location of the control room is personal preference though. I think that the main room will "flow" better with the control room in the back so to speak.
Once again thank you!
Anthony
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24th March 2009
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#6 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer You could use a drop ceiling, or you could treat the ceiling as shown in this video tour of my partner's basement studio: The Ultimate Home Studio
--Ethan | Cool video... Are his ceilings are like 7'? So it's just fabric with fluffy fiberglass above? Could you fit OC 703, 705, or Mineral Wool into the track for ceiling tile? The wife is probably not going to approve hanging fabric, but if I could wrap fiberglass panels she might be cool with that.
Also I don't know how clear my previous question was...
Is it better to have a lower (96") ceiling with no interruptions (ie soffits) and a larger room, or a smaller room (LxW) with higher ceilings and some interruptions behind the mix position?
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24th March 2009
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#7 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 13,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonySpinali If I drop the whole ceiling to 96" then I could build a room on that side of the building completely free of soffits and ducts. Is this better? | Yes!  Quote: |
Are his ceilings are like 7'?
| 7 feet to the joist bottoms, or 8 feet to the rigid floor above which is the real height as far as dimensions are concerned. Quote: |
So it's just fabric with fluffy fiberglass above? Could you fit OC 703, 705, or Mineral Wool into the track for ceiling tile?
| Yes and yes. But as explained in the video, once you get to a foot thick the fluffy stuff is just as good and costs much less. Quote: |
Is it better to have a lower (96") ceiling with no interruptions (ie soffits) and a larger room
| Yes!
--Ethan
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24th March 2009
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#8 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer Yes!
Yes!
--Ethan | Okay now I'm getting somewhere! So here is a sketch of the bigger room idea 8'x12'x20', and a sketch of the oddly shaped room I thought might be cool (it's based on the sketch on the cover of Rod's book). It's not quite right but if anyone thinks it's a good idea then I might spend more time sketching it. The bigger room is just over 1900 Cubic Ft. I know this isn't the recommended 2500 but I can't imagine sacrificing that much more space for this room. I'm not entirely sure I'm ready to spend this much real-estate on this room.
There seems to be some problem with the Room Mode Calculator. It seems to be the wrong resolution because the recommended modes seem to disappear behind other text. All the other text is jumbled as well.... I tried messing with the resolution on my monitor but that didn't help...
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25th March 2009
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#9 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 13,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonySpinali So here is a sketch of the bigger room idea 8'x12'x20' | Now you're talking. Quote: |
There seems to be some problem with the Room Mode Calculator. It seems to be the wrong resolution because the recommended modes seem to disappear behind other text. All the other text is jumbled as well.... I tried messing with the resolution on my monitor but that didn't help...
| I've never seen this. Can you post or email me a screen capture of the problem?
--Ethan
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25th March 2009
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#10 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter |
Ethan
Here is a decent screenshot... Let me know if you have any ideas on how to fix it.
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26th March 2009
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#11 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 13,066
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Wow, I've never seen anything like that. Is it possible you have your Windows fonts set to a non-standard extra-large size? I'd expect the program to use the font sizes I told it to use! In this case the block of text is printed using this command that first sets the font and size:
PRINT #Main, "font Arial 10"
But in your screen shot the font is much larger. 
--Ethan
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26th March 2009
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#12 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter |
I'm running windows XP. In the control panel, under "Display," in the "Appearance" tab it says "Font Size: Normal." I do have a widescreen monitor... It measures 14 1/2" x 9 1/8." I don't know much about computers so this might be totally normal. My screen resolution is 1440x900 pixels.
In any case it seems to work okay and I think I'm getting all the necessary info. However, as you can see it's not displaying all the recommended ratios. So I don't know if maybe there is one a bit more suitable for my room.
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26th March 2009
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#13 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter |
It appears that font size in appearance only controls the font in the blue windows xp bar anyhow. The text within the window remains unaffected when I change it. Is there any other place where I might change the default font in windows... OR am I missing the point entirely?
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26th March 2009
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#14 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter |
In the interest of my room:
Would I be too small with a 16'10"x12'x8' (1:1.5:2.1) room? This is more in line with what my wife and I had in mind. It's not that I don't want it bigger but I need to be realistic about selling this place one day.
As I said before I'm interested in differently shaped rooms if it can be worked out. I liked the example in Rod's book but he didn't really elaborate on what sort of shapes one could consider. I imagine it's rather complicated but I would be interested in ideas...
Ethan,
I've seen in other threads that you really prefer rectangular rooms... (at least for small rooms) Am I correct? Is this because treatment is more predictable?
I must also say that I am totally bummed out at the idea of lowering my ceiling. In Rod's book (This is really the only reference I have) he has some soffits in his example room and seems to think that treating those areas is totally acceptable. Is my room different? Or is it just so much better if it's bigger LxW that the lower ceiling is irrelevant?
I really appreciate your thoughts...
Anthony
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26th March 2009
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#15 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 13,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonySpinali I don't know much about computers so this might be totally normal. My screen resolution is 1440x900 pixels. | This shouldn't be related to your screen's resolution which just scales everything up and down together. I'll guess it's a bug either in Windows or the programming language I used (Liberty Basic). Quote: |
as you can see it's not displaying all the recommended ratios. So I don't know if maybe there is one a bit more suitable for my room.
| If you click the screen shot on the ModeCalc web page you can see it as it's supposed to appear, and read all the ratios: Graphical Mode Calculator Quote: |
Would I be too small with a 16'10"x12'x8' (1:1.5:2.1) room?
| That's about the minimum size, but it's big enough to work well given lots of bass trapping. Quote: |
I've seen in other threads that you really prefer rectangular rooms... (at least for small rooms) Am I correct? Is this because treatment is more predictable?
| The reason I prefer rectangles is not because its easier to predict modes, but simply because small rooms usually end up even smaller when you angle the walls. Not sure if I posted this before, but this article describes an excellent design for a basement studio, angled walls and all: Maximum Studio, Minimum Stress
--Ethan
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26th March 2009
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#16 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer The reason I prefer rectangles is not because its easier to predict modes, but simply because small rooms usually end up even smaller when you angle the walls. Not sure if I posted this before, but this article describes an excellent design for a basement studio, angled walls and all: Maximum Studio, Minimum Stress
--Ethan | Awesome article. I think I'll take the time to read the rest of the articles on your site. Very helpful and insightful...
I'm going to draw up the 16'10"x12' room and see how it looks.
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27th March 2009
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#17 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter |
Here's the current design... I'm a lot happier with laundry area in this one. I think I'm comfortable with it being small. I need to be honest with myself this doesn't have to compete with anything. I just need a nice space that sounds good and is isolated enough for my wife to watch TV while I record.
How do you folks feel about a seperate HVAC unit? It seems like it's overkill for me but Rod certainly makes a very strong case for it. As I said before I'm not going for super professional... Is it such a week link that it defeats the purpose of double walls? I can wind the ducts around to help limit the sound coming through. I'm not sure how effective this could be... I don't have any really hot equipment.
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16th April 2009
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#18 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 241
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Hey Anthony - I'm also in St. Louis and in the midst of trying to build my small basement studio. I'm interested in your progress - can you give us an update?
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16th April 2009
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#19 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis
Posts: 252
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab4ever Hey Anthony - I'm also in St. Louis and in the midst of trying to build my small basement studio. I'm interested in your progress - can you give us an update? | It's kind of on hold right now. For a while I was trying to decide if I wanted to soffit mount the monitors. I decided against it. It seems that you only want to soffit mount if you are going to splay the walls and I'm not sure that's in the budget.
My current concern is HVAC. I have supply and return trunks running through the room but I'm concerned that using those would defeat the purpose of isolating the room.
So I'm sketching a new design and hope to post in the next week or so.
I don't plan to start construction until September. But that is just a target date.
Thanks for asking!
Anthony
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17th April 2009
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#20 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 241
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Thanks Anthony. I'm facing some of the decisions you are - but with less space and money!
Keep us posted on your progress.
Fab
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