Back Again...with a garage now!

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Another quick question. I want to have an XLR wall plate in my control room and another in my live room...I am assuming I will buy loose xlr cable and solder them in myself? My other question is this, where is a good place to look for these plates? I want to have 10 connections going to the live room, the most I have seen is plates of 6...so, I could do 1 of 4 and one of 6...this is what I need to do right? I know this is pretty basic, but I never have done this part before.

This is the one I am looking at...good to go with these? Any other suggestions?

Redco Audio

I would mount a box to the wall, and seal the cables coming in through a small hole (in the wall). Allow for some slack inside the box for removing the plate

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

I would mount a box to the wall, and seal the cables coming in through a small hole (in the wall). Allow for some slack inside the box for removing the plate

Yes, and it's also a good idea to stagger the wall openings. So the plate on one side is a few studs away from the plate on the other side. Run the wires through holes in the studs to get from here to there.

--Ethan

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Ok, thought I would post a sheet of expected expenses to see if I am missing anything. I have a good friend who is doing all the electrical for free and I will be doing drywall and all other installations with friends.

Here is the breakdown, let me know if I am missing something. I do already have a running studio so I don't have a ton of other expenses as far as gear goes.

Best,
Keith

Your drywall sheets are pricey, you paddin your own bill to get a couple of cheap mics sliped in and a GAP Pre 73??

[lodstudios@gmail]

Haha...I wish I was padding it...

I got the drywall prices from the Lowes website...do they seem too high?
Is there another place I should be looking?

[johndykstra]

I don't know that $450 is going to take you very far as far as bass traps.

[lodstudios@gmail]

I am planning on Building out my own...I am trying to see where I can move the money around to make it all stretch out.

Where is the best place to look for Drywall pricing?

[memphisindie]

Look for "acoustical supply" for what area you are in and they will get you wholesale pricing. Should be less than half that $10/sheet rice they quoted.

[AnthonySpinali]

In St. Louis Home Depot sells 5/8" Drywall for about $7.50/sheet (I think). Look for a drywall supply warehouse or check local lumber yards. Lots of times you get a big discount if you order more than 100 sheets. So tell them how much you need you might get a bulk discount.

[lodstudios@gmail]

Ok, just cleaned out my soon to be studio space and am buying materials...it's on!

I have a quick question in regards to lumber, I am unclear on what to purchase so I thought I would ask what all of you have done. I will have the photo diary up very soon, can't wait!

I am not going to build a room within a room, I have just one wall to build with 2X4X 8' and running 12' 2X4 beams for the new ceiling. Please let me know if this makes sense.

What lumber are you all using? Is there a specific species you use? Should I be using Green wood or Kiln dried? Any thoughts?

Best,
Keith

[KyleDiSanto]

Green is Stronger for framing.

For what you are doing, Kin dried will work too, but its used most in situations (complex trim work) where you need to build out a space with 2x4's. (amongst other uses).

[lodstudios@gmail]

Ok, do I need to wait to hang rock for any period of time or will I be good to go pretty quickly?

[AnthonySpinali]

Not sure what you mean; however, you can hang drywall as soon as you finish your electric and plumbing (if any). If there is neither then you can hang drywall as soon as your framing is complete.

Don't use green lumber for general framing. It has chemicals in it that you don't want in your home or studio. However, we do use green lumber against basement floors and foundations, but only for the bottom plate. This is so that the bottom plate doesn't rot or attract insects that will travel into the framing system. I hope that makes sense.

[lodstudios@gmail]

I'm sorry, I am a bit confused now. The post before you said to use "green" lumber and you are stating to not use it. By green I mean that it still has a small moisture content and has not been Kiln dried, I wasn't referring to pressure treated wood...only the use of Kiln Dried verses Green wood.

[AnthonySpinali]

Oh okay.... As carpenters (in St. Louis) we only refer to Pressure Treated as "Green Lumber/Wood" Yeah I would still use kiln dried as that's what I usually use. However, as I said before use "Treated Lumber" for bottom plates where it meets cement or foundation. All the studs, joists, top plates etc. you will be fine with kiln dried.

Having said all that keep in mind that I'm only telling you to use what I have used in 10 years in construction. If the lumber yard says you can use "green lumber" (not pressure treated) then it's probably okay. I simply have never heard of it. Maybe I've used it and didn't know.

Sorry this is so long winded. I don't remember suggesting "green lumber" are you sure it wasn't someone else.

[AnthonySpinali]

I decided to see what "Green Lumber" is. I guess I'm the only one who calls treated lumber "green." That's just how I was taught; maybe it's just not common in St. Louis. It appears it might be a west coast thing... but I really don't know.

Here is a link that strongly suggests against it.

Green Lumber Why Should I Care?

My guess is that Kyle from the above post is correct. It is in fact stronger and less prone to splitting when you frame. However, it appears that warping and twisting are big issues with green lumber. I'd stick with kiln dried it will be easier to maintain accurate dimensions. It's also probably lighter and cleaner to work with. Wet lumber can give you hairy cuts and it's hard on saw blades.

[gn87berner]

Pressure treated/green for bottom plate or touching concrete surfaces. The rest frame with regular ol 2x4's or 2x6's.. that's code and it'll save a bunch of money.
Sometimes drywall supply companies are higher or lower than home depot. Also it fluctuates depending on hurricanes and the like.
Now here's a big tip!!! Go to home depot and get all your sku's or shopping list. Then go to the contractors desk. and say. "can i get a bid for this" they will add it up and send it off to Georgia, and they will call back with a deal. The more you buy the better the discount. I bought 270 sheets of 5/8's drywall, framing, doors, ect that totaled over $3000 for under $2400. That was just my first purchase for building my studio/jam room. Open a credit card with them and no interest for either 6/mo or a yr, and/or 10% off. Plus you have to say 4x8 or 4x12 for comparative drywall costs.

[AnthonySpinali]

Originally Posted by gn87berner

Now here's a big tip!!! Go to home depot and get all your sku's or shopping list. Then go to the contractors desk. and say. "can i get a bid for this" they will add it up and send it off to Georgia, and they will call back with a deal. The more you buy the better the discount. I bought 270 sheets of 5/8's drywall, framing, doors, ect that totaled over $3000 for under $2400. That was just my first purchase for building my studio/jam room. Open a credit card with them and no interest for either 6/mo or a yr, and/or 10% off. Plus you have to say 4x8 or 4x12 for comparative drywall costs.

I second that. They have a new policy that anything over $2500 they can discount if you tell them you are a contractor. They don't ask for any proof that I can remember. I don't even think you need a credit account to get "bulk pricing".

[lodstudios@gmail]

Thank you all for your replies, went to HD today and purchased the wood and will be here tomorrow.

I did go with Green Lumber based on many recommendations from people there and also from a friend who is a contractor. Being in San Diego I was told that green lumber is used a lot for framing and I won't need to worry about it.

Thanks again!

Gonna start my diary soon, I got a few small things to do before the framing begins tomorrow or thursday....can't wait!

Keith

[VoiceManMike]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

I am not going to build a room within a room, I have just one wall to build with 2X4X 8' and running 12' 2X4 beams for the new ceiling. Please let me know if this makes sense.

For the walls 2x4 is fine. For the ceiling joist (Beams a you call the) will need to be thicker. The rule of thumb is for every foot of span you need 1" of width on the 2x. If the span is 12' you will need 2x12, if the span is under 6' you will need 2x6.

What lumber are you all using? Is there a specific species you use? Should I be using Green wood or Kiln dried? Any thoughts?

Go with the green. For the bottom plate, the 2x that sits on the cement will need to be Pressure treated lumber

[gn87berner]

Anthony, I call treated lumber green also, refer to earlier post, my bad. I said use just regular ol 2x4's. I have never heard of framing with treated wood. Is "regular 2x4's" considered "green"? I've never seen 2 different stacks of 2x4's @ the depot. 1 kiln dried, 1 "green"

[VoiceManMike]

Originally Posted by gn87berner

Is "regular 2x4's" considered "green"?

Green = wet, not kiln dried. When it's so wet and you sink your nails it squirts at you. So wet it's still growing, as my grand father would say.

I've never seen 2 different stacks of 2x4's @ the depot. 1 kiln dried, 1 "green"

It's their. The kiln dry stuff is a little cheaper, but it also seems to split easier too. The only time i ever used it is to replace trimmer studs in door and windows openings for less shrinkage.

[AnthonySpinali]

Let us know how the "Green Lumber" works! Ask around and make sure there's no time you should wait before dry-walling. My fear is that if you seal it up too quickly you will trap all that moisture in your walls and it can mold. The research I did last night certainly suggest that it could be a problem.

I swear the green lumber is regional; I've been in Home Depot nearly every day for 10 years and never seen a piece of 2x lumber that was not either kiln dried (white wood I think!) or pressure treated. I don't frame every day any more so I could be wrong about anything but it's very surprising to me as I thought I had seen everything. I guess you learn something new every day!

[lodstudios@gmail]

will do! I picked up the lumber today, some of it is more dry than others.

It will be a bit before Drywall so I will let you know.

I lost some sleep last night, I couldn't get the 2X12 deal out of my head...after some research on this site, John Sayers and California code, I was able to determine I can use 2X6 to span the length I am looking for. Phewww...now back to HD to get more wood!

Keith

[gn87berner]

When they had a problem with mold in walls from the same thing in the northwest/US. They were talking of requiring a 3 week "dry out period" of the framing, before -vapor barrier/drywall. Measuring moisture content. Now in construction we all know time is money. So how is that going to fly? I don't know how it all worked out but. My own personal preference is to use asphalt impregnated felt as the exterior water membrane, as it breathes but doesn't let water in,then vapor barrier the inside, depending on the outside overlayment. I wouldn't use "green" lumber and if it was rained on, turning it "green", I would take this into consideration. Realize in the Northwest/US it rains on all the lumber. More or less.

[lodstudios@gmail]

So, I have been doing a ton of research and trying to understand PSF, Live Load, Dead Load in order to purchase the correct materials to construct a save studio. Here is what Rod Stated in another forum...

"Dead loads are the loads of the materials that make up the structure and/or building components.

Examples: Studs, ceiling joists - headers, sheathing (plywood - OSB - Drywall, etc.) Duckwork, fans, fan coil units, electrical within cavities or permanately mouted to wall/ceiling/floor, electrical lighting, plumbing pipe (waste and domestic hot water) sprinkler piping, etc., etc., etc.

Live loads are things brought in after the room/space is complete.

Examples: Furniture, gear, people walking around, etc., etc., etc.

To calculate the ceiling you would take the entire weight of all of the ceiling components (including the ceiling joist) all plywod/drywall layers, any insulation, lighting, ductwork with registers/grilles, and divide those by the area of the ceiling for a total psf DL.

Tis just that simple.

Rod"

Based on this I estimate my ceiling, when constructed, will be about 1200lbs total. This, divided by the amount of sq ft of 125, would mean a PSF of 9.6.
By this estimation I can conclude that a 2X6 would be a suitable joist to run at 16"OC or a 2X8 24"OC or 16"OC, all this by using this calculator. Is this correct? One thing I having a hard time understanding is the Live Load for the ceiling, there won't be any variables for me as I won't be putting anyone up there. Is this correct thinking or am I missing something? I don't live in a snowy area, I don't have anything that would bring additional weight to the table. I can't help but think I am confused.

I am using Doug. Fir #2 @ 24"OC with a live load of 20 and a Dead Load of 10.

This will be a total of 7 2X6 joists, with some bracing as well, and 2 layers of 1/2" Drywall...this is also adding way more than enough weight for insulation, wiring and fixtures.

Maximum Span Calculator for Joists & Rafters

The weight of the wood is the tricky part...I estimated the 2X8, or 2X6 to weigh 70-90lbs.
(Am I way off here?)

Someone care to take a stab at this?

Best,
Keith

[AnthonySpinali]

What is the span of the joists? 2x4s are generally fine but if the span is too great they need to be supported in the middle. Rod's explanation is correct I'm sure, but you have a Gable roof ("A" frame) and you can support your joists in the middle with a "King Post" and "Truss Webs." (See link) I'm not saying don't use 2x6s. You certainly can and it will be more stout.

Here is a link with a very good picture of how you should build each truss:

Roof Trusses

In this link they are discussing manufactured trusses but the illustration "Common Trusses" looks like each truss should look when you are done.

I'm not sure your weights are correct but if you use 2x6s and you follow the instructions on that link, I'm pretty confident that ceiling will hold nearly any amount of weight you could possibly hang from it. I can give you a more detailed explanation of how I would build it if you can give me dimensions. Are the existing rafters 24" OC? If you are doing double drywall and you are worried about weight I would think you would like to have 16" OC. Also what is the height of the roof peak? Height of ceiling?

[lodstudios@gmail]

Wow Anthony, you just summed up EXACTLY what I was looking for!

The rafters are 24"OC and the height will be 8FT, the pitch is really small and the peak is just under 10ft at 9'8".

The room is 15' long and 11.5' wide.

Need anything else?

Best,
Keith

[AnthonySpinali]

Awesome! so you can get 2"x6"x16' and then they don't have a break. Then I would drop a King Post from the peak and connect it really well to the peak and to the center of each ceiling joist. This connection is everything so make sure it's really solid.

Option 1: When I used to work for a builder the King post would sit on top of the ceiling joist and connected with metal gussets. You can get a metal plate that is similar (I call them "Nailer plates") and put loads of "Hanger Nails" in it. If you don't know what hanger nails are they are usually next to the joist hangers at Home depot. They are usually galvanized and about 1" long. The plate should be about 6"x6" or 8"x8". Not sure if you need one on both sides to be honest. I would also put a nailer plate at the point where the King post meets the peak.

Option 2: It seems to me that in leau of nailer plates you could simply attach the king post to the side of the rafters and screw, nail, and/or bolt them together. Then drop the King post to the side of each ceiling joist and nail, screw, and/or bolt it to the side of each ceiling joist.

In all honesty I would probably just use option two with Deckmate screws. I generally pre-drill the ends of boards when I screw stuff because I don't want the wood to split. However, since you are adding so much more weight maybe lag bolts or even carriage bolts would be a better plan. In that case nail it in place then pre-drill for your bolt.

Also you need to learn about "Crowning" a board. In most construction you want straight lumber but when it comes to joists you always want any bow in the board to be up so when you apply weight at the center it pulls down to straight. It's actually more important that the crown is the same on each joist than it is that they are up but make sure you think about it. If you can't tell which way it crowns don't worry about it. It's only important if you can tell. It's hard to explain without a picture. Don't confuse crowning with twisted wood.

Another thing that we do is: You will notice when you get 16' 2x6s up the will be rather flimsy in the center. After your King posts are in you can take a couple long 2x4s and nail them to the top of the 2x6s to brace them at 24"OC. This just stabilizes the whole system until you get your drywall on. It is important though because you don't want the wood to be hard to find when screwing your drywall.

After all that you can add truss webs but these can just be nailed to the side of the rafters and the side of the joists. I don't think you need to go crazy bolting them considering how small your ceiling is, but make sure they are well connected because you don't want anything loose in your ceiling. Especially when building a studio!

[lodstudios@gmail]

This looks like something I can do for sure, the only thing is the rafters run the width of the building and not the length so I think I should be dealing in 12ft 2X6 or 2X4...sorry if I confused you, does this make any difference in your suggestions?

Keith

[AnthonySpinali]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

This looks like something I can do for sure, the only thing is the rafters run the width of the building and not the length so I think I should be dealing in 12ft 2X6 or 2X4...sorry if I confused you, does this make any difference in your suggestions?

Keith

Just makes it easier!