A Harley fueled Home Studio!?!

[Lexinator]

Okay, deep breath...

Some idiot just offered me more for one of my "hand-built" Harleys than anyone in criminal possession of rational sense could possibly turn down...

So, I'm gonna do something I was gonna do a long time ago, and build myself a studio, right here in my house. Well, okay... not exactly "in" my house, but right next to it.

Here's where is gets complicated. Right next to my house are (4) shipping containers (all welded together, and insulated with 9"-12" of spray-in foam insulation) buried under four feet of soil.

The guy I bought the property from was gonna use it as a temperature-stabilized warehouse.

When I got it, it had (10) old cars pushed into it. I sold three of them, to build the Harley I just sold. So, HE actually paid for all of this! I love it when a plan comes together!

"The Cave" is cut into a hillside, that is really just a berm created by piling dirt on top of the containers. It's structurally sound, I had it checked out by engineers. There's a ton of rigid insulation and then almost 6" of steel-reinforced (rebar) concrete sprayed over the top of it...

There are several skylights (okay, about 12) built into the warehouse, that are basically just concrete boxes 5+ feet tall, capped with regular "venting" 4' x 4' skylights. These extend up thru the earth roof.

The vents are motorized, and "mech operated." You can set them to open or close with a thermostat.

One long side of the box is exposed, with an overhang of about four feet, to provide some shade. In the center, are two big truck doors, that I'll tear out, and replace with an "airlock door" and windows...

The rough measurements are: 32' x 40' x 9'6"

The inside measurements are: 30'6" x 38'6" x 9' with a slab floor that is 12" of steel-reinforced concrete. (He was gonna drive tractors over it.)

It's completely open inside. He used beams, the existing container steel framing, and enough welding rod to build the Eiffel Tower to build one big open space.

I'm thinking a control room, a nice studio "space," a podcast booth, an ISO booth, and a Piano room (for a Boston GP195 Grand Piano), some kind of "production lounge," and a small bathroom.

It'll be used for writing and producing scores, doing some podcasting and interviews, and other assorted projects, primarily by myself and a few drunken hooligans who call themselves "a guild of guitarists and musical miscreants."

I figure I need to allow for space for no more than about 8-10 musicians at any given time.

What I want to do is build a place where "new talent" can go to record, without suffering the slings and arrows of the "ponytails." As a guitarist, I've had a good run, and it's time to give something back.

I'll do some rough sketches (remember I'm a guitarist, and not an architect or engineer) and then I'm gonna ask for your help and suggestions.

I have about $50-70 grand to spend on the actual building.

I gotta be careful, because at my age, it ain't likely that I'll meet any rich widows (my wife wouldn't like it), and I ain't gonna come into any money from relatives. Heck, I probably won't even get Social Security, cuz' I'll be broke by then!

I have access to as much gear as I need, so that'll come later. What I can't get "because I'm an old 'used to be famous' guy," I'll buy out of a "war chest" that has about $40,000 in it, to date.

I've seen the kind of things you guys can do here, and frankly, I want a piece of it. Your talent would make anybody proud!

(How's that for gratuitous praise and the piling on of "butt-kissing and brown-nosin'?")

I need help with this! You have any suggestions? Comments? Sarcasm?

(Remember, I'm old. No "anatomical impossibilities," huh?)

Help an old guy learn new tricks. It's good karma!

And keep this on the "low-low..." Huh? If my wife finds out about it, she'll wanna buy (gasp!) shoes!

[LewisWu]

that sounds so cool.. i've been looking into the logistics of building a structure out of shipping containers.. its surprising how cheaply they can be acquired. almost like grown up lego's...

i hope you post pictures of your build

[MrT]

hey, and if the studio doesn't work out maybe you can use that money to get a real bike now...

[jayfrigo]

Looks cool! I'd love to have a space like that. It should work great. There's a studio nearby that's built into the side of a hill too: Blue Jay Recording Studio

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by LewisWu

that sounds so cool.. i've been looking into the logistics of building a structure out of shipping containers.. its surprising how cheaply they can be acquired. almost like grown up lego's...

i hope you post pictures of your build

I've been watching Shipping Container Construction for years. In part, it's why I bought the place. Lot's of opportunity to "test."

Try this guy: Renaissance Ronin for some massive Shipping Container builds...

If I can figure out how to lay this thing out, I'll definitely post results, blow by blow...

(It's WHY I asked for help...)

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by MrT

hey, and if the studio doesn't work out maybe you can use that money to get a real bike now...

Yeah... about that... Name another bike you can pour your heart into, sell your soul to, and then... sell to another "disciple" for over a hundred grand... Sometimes you gotta deliver the guitars to the gig, in a fashionable way, huh? I've ridden to many, many concerts with a guitar slung on my back... And except for one Ducati, every one a Harley.

It's just hell getting the Teamsters to let you ride right onto the stage without a bunch of legalese...

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Looks cool! I'd love to have a space like that. It should work great. There's a studio nearby that's built into the side of a hill too: Blue Jay Recording Studio

Don't get me wrong, I've been in lots of studios, but nothing like this. And frankly, as a guitarist, I haven't been as attentive as I should have been, to "the technical bits..." That's what techs, geeks, and ponytails are for, god love 'em...

It's got its puzzles. The inside of the box is solid foam insulation. I mean... solid... in some places a foot thick. Massive skylights all over the place. NO HVAC and just a "wee bit" of power. Except for the bounce off the floors, it's a dead zone.

And then there is actually coming up with the layout. It's only about 1300 square feet.

But I'm thinking with some help, it could be fab.

[MrT]

Originally Posted by Lexinator

It's just hell getting the Teamsters to let you ride right onto the stage without a bunch of legalese...

eh you know... I like my women like I like my bikes: Old, fat and Japanese! But I guess every once in a while you meet a Harley guy that isn't sooo bad. Good luck on your build.

[jwl]

Wow, very very cool. There's a lot you could do in that space, with that budget.

Have you considered hiring a studio designer? Wes Lachot springs to mind, but there are many people who could guide your project and make the budget work.

Or is this more of a love-of-DIY thing?

Either way, I think this space has HUGE potential to be really, really cool.

[Lexinator]

Some follow-up thoughts for "Man Cave Audio:"

I've thought about doing this for a while now. But, like everybody else, I had to justify the expense. Selling that ride just put me over the top, and with the economy going straight to "you-know-where..." I figure it's "now or never."

I've got a SSL AWS 900+ that's been sitting in a crate for a few years now. Don't ask. I won't tell... Upgrading it to SE won't be that hard.

I've got enough computers and tools to fill a small bunker, so that's no problem either.

I'm really handy in the workshop, so custom enclosures and "boxes" will be pretty straight-forward.

About the studio;

Not only would it enhance my ability to work at "home," I could open it up to the locals, and take in a intern or two, to help the "educational learning curve."

The hardest part about getting behind that big desk... is getting behind a big desk, in a REAL environment. I know that the schools have cool stuff, but the feeling that "you have to make money or die" just isn't there. It's just not the same.

I already have a bunkhouse, so I can put up several people at a time, to work and record. But, those people better be "olfactory challenged," because frankly, musicians can be a rather smelly lot...

I'm thinking that once it's started going up, I'll bring in an intern or two for the summer, who "lives in..." every year. Maybe even a resident musician or two...

I suppose it makes sense to begin this studio build, by trying to define the spaces needed, both by use, and approximate size.

A Podcasting booth is just a room with a mic and a desk with a tele-prompter, so that's a no brainer - we're talking about a cubicle sized room, that looks into the control room. It'd also double as a "commercial vocals" (as in radio and TV commercials) and "voice-over" booth.

Again, it'd be used enough to dedicate a space to it.

The ISO booth for vocals or a guitar or two... How big is enough? Figure three or four guys (or gals) in there at once, maximum.

But I need a room for professional drum kits, and a grand piano. Anybody got any suggestions about how big those two spaces should be?

The piano gets used daily. The drum kit, almost as often. So, I'd like to make 'em warm and cozy! ;-)

The ISO booth for vocals... How big is enough? Figure three or four guys (or gals) in there at once, maximum.

I figure once I carve out these places, I'll know what I have left, for the "main room..."

Any suggestions? Huh? Helloooo?

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by jwl

Wow, very very cool. There's a lot you could do in that space, with that budget.

Have you considered hiring a studio designer? Wes Lachot springs to mind, but there are many people who could guide your project and make the budget work.

Or is this more of a love-of-DIY thing?

Either way, I think this space has HUGE potential to be really, really cool.

Hey there!

Right now, I'm trying to get my head around the space, before I go and sign any contracts to spend money. The "last" time I started this, we spent so much money "in development" that when it came time to build the damned thing, the money was gone...

And the DIY thing is real important. I am one of those guys who believes that "if you know how it works, you'll know how to make it evolve." So, I want to do as much as I can, by all by my "onesies." Plus, I'll save money that way. I don't "love" money, but I like it a lot!

What I need is a cool and durable space, with the ability to grow, as "things change." As low maintenance as possible, so that time spent within is spent on music, and not on upkeep.

And, I know when I'm out of my league, and I'm not afraid to ask for help.

Thanks for responding!

[jwl]

First thing I'd do is get Rod's book. This is a must, especially if you are DIYing it.

Take a look at some floor plans that look like a reasonable match for your space. Use those as a starting point.

I'd personally explore John Sayers' inside-out wall design for this space. Gives you lots of options to incorporate acoustic treatments into the walls themselves, and doesn't take up much room space.

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by jwl

First thing I'd do is get Rod's book. This is a must, especially if you are DIYing it.

Take a look at some floor plans that look like a reasonable match for your space. Use those as a starting point.

I'd personally explore John Sayers' inside-out wall design for this space. Gives you lots of options to incorporate acoustic treatments into the walls themselves, and doesn't take up much room space.

I've been giving the "space" some thought, and I thought it'd be a good idea to do a "digital pencil sketch" of what I see in my head.

I really don't need a lot of "spaces," I need a lot of space. I need space that is multi-functional, and versatile.

I know I don't have Albert Hall to build into, but I need to cover my bases, or it's just a money-pit. And the hardest part about the beginnings of a studio... are the beginnings. I've seen some terrific spaces, places where "tasty" don't begin to describe the vibes...

So... Okay, the drawing isn't exactly to scale, but it'll give on-lookers an idea of what I was "trying " to create. Now, I already realize that the beast that gets born may look remarkably different, but here's what I was kinda hoping for...

(And yeah, I know I have math to do, to get all the angles right and spend my "Stimulus" money on Bass Trapping!)

Here's where Ethan can kick my head up around my ears for me...

[see attachment]

I'm thinking 'family' and not 'corporate.' I'm thinking 'arts and crafty' not 'high dollar esoteric.'

I'm thinking I do a lot of the construction myself, with the help of "friends." Yeah right, like I actually have friends... Mention beer or Scotch, I have loads. Mention hammers and saws, I have a ghost town... LOL!

Anyway, I'm talking to a LOT of people, trying to get some semblance of a start.

Any suggestions would be welcome, unless they're anatomically impossible.

Lexx

[Led]

Heyy, awesome thing you've got there. A dude here (Nash Chambers, Casey's brother if you know them) has his studio setup in one big shipping container with a beautiful API. He just ships it to wherever the family are and they record there.
Anyway, the only input I have is about control room size. Are yopu plannig on recording a lot of bands live in there, or is this more for your stuff etc.
If you're not going to record live bands all in everyday, I'd think about losing the vocal booth to the right of the control room all together and make the control room bigger. That's where you spend most of your time.
You can always chuck on some cans and put some players in the cotrol room if you need to. Like I say though, depends on how you are plannig to record mainly. Good luck with it.

[RCM - Ronan]

I had a Harley fueled studio move. I had a really cool studio a little while ago, but it was sadly down the road from a Harley dealership. The bikes were so loud that my console would literally shake. Trucks and busses were no problems, but the loud harleys made it impossible for me to do quiet projects. After costing me thousands of dollars a year in lost jobs, I finally conceded that the Harleys won and moved to a new place further away from the dealership.

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by Led

Heyy, awesome thing you've got there. A dude here (Nash Chambers, Casey's brother if you know them) has his studio setup in one big shipping container with a beautiful API. He just ships it to wherever the family are and they record there.
Anyway, the only input I have is about control room size. Are yopu plannig on recording a lot of bands live in there, or is this more for your stuff etc.
If you're not going to record live bands all in everyday, I'd think about losing the vocal booth to the right of the control room all together and make the control room bigger. That's where you spend most of your time.
You can always chuck on some cans and put some players in the cotrol room if you need to. Like I say though, depends on how you are plannig to record mainly. Good luck with it.

I've got a pal in AUS, Mark Paltridge, who operates Spark1Studio in a shipping container that John Sayer helped him build. In fact, I'm helping him sell it, to build another one...

We will see live bands there, and eventually, it'll become a small "teaching facility" with a hook into a major University down here in Redneckville... "I gar-un-tee!"

Plus, I need a space to fulfill contractual obligations in the Podcast zone... So, I can't abandon having a booth...

It'll come together, I just need to learn more. And with the help I'm getting from you guys, I will!

Thanks for kickin in!

Lexx

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by rcm

I had a Harley fueled studio move. I had a really cool studio a little while ago, but it was sadly down the road from a Harley dealership. The bikes were so loud that my console would literally shake. Trucks and busses were no problems, but the loud harleys made it impossible for me to do quiet projects. After costing me thousands of dollars a year in lost jobs, I finally conceded that the Harleys won and moved to a new place further away from the dealership.

Dude,

I feel your pain. But... since the only bikes around here will be mine, or "scheduled" visitors, I'm hoping that my experience will be different from yours!

I think that one well-placed Harley could make all these "Bass Trapping Guru's" cry!

'Scuse me now, I'm still trying to run numbers, to calculate ratios, to trap bass (do you remember when "trapping bass" meant throwing dynamite into a pond? Or is it just me?) while I try to figure out the difference between a "slot resonator" and an "exhaust resonator," and ... um... where was I?

It's gonna be an adventure, to be sure. And the way things are going, I'll have to sell my other bike, to pay for it. Then... "Harley rumble" won't make any difference! It'll be non-existent!

Lexx

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Lexinator

Here's where Ethan can kick my head up around my ears for me...

[see attachment]

Without dimensions it's impossible to comment. My guess is the drum room and control room seem awfully small. But maybe everything is four times bigger than it looks?

--Ethan

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Without dimensions it's impossible to comment. My guess is the drum room and control room seem awfully small. But maybe everything is four times bigger than it looks?

--Ethan

Hi Ethan,

"Man Cave Audio" is slowly evolving! Overall studio space is 32' x 40' rough.

Deduct 18" in each direction for existing walls/foam insulation. Height is 9' on average, plus or minus 2." We shot it with a laser, to be sure. Same sprayed on open cell foam (plus fire ******ant) on ceiling.

CR is 20'ish by 20'ish. As the plan develops, it will get pushed and pulled into an acceptable rectangle-ish shape. Drum room is 10'ish by 10'ish.

Advise was that a decent CR should be at least 400 square feet.

Again, as you guys hand me my ass, those spaces will take on "real" dimensions.

I've already modified the space drawings, as you'll see in the new sketch.

1.The newly created airlock allows equipment entry, better seals. 2. Kitchenette abandoned.
3. Sliding glass doors almost completely eliminated.
4. Bathroom moved into airlock.
5. Shop moved to "off" Equip Room. Poss passthru to "live space."
6. CR "hardened" by eliminating glass doors.
7. Booth (8' x 8' approx) relocated but angles to be determined later.

Okay, lemme have it. I already know I'm an idiot, Here's your chance to prove it!

Lexx

[goldenlotus]

What about switching the placement of the vocal booth and the shop? Then you'd get good sight lines between the booth and rest of the studio. Personally I don't like looking over my shoulder during a vocal session. Also maybe a lounge?

Really cool studio though... looks like it will be fantastic!

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

What about switching the placement of the vocal booth and the shop? Then you'd get good sight lines between the booth and rest of the studio. Personally I don't like looking over my shoulder during a vocal session. Also maybe a lounge?

Really cool studio though... looks like it will be fantastic!

In order to get a CR large enough to actually work in, I have to cut the space into little tiny pieces. Not practical, except for the "forum levity factor."

So, I started thinking about a "corner" CR config, and the potential for a better "shape."

Additionally, I had a plumber that I actually trust (try finding one of them these days!) take a look at the sit, and he tells me that the bathroom off the lobby airlock will cost about $10,000 to build, because there is nada to start with, but tons of concrete. Bath has to move.

There's a patio to the left side of the space, that I haven't drawn in, because I had ZERO plans to go there. It's a slab, with retaining walls, that attaches the building we're talking about, to the house. And, there's a bathroom off of it that I can "attach" to, to get plumbing.

So guess what? Not only will I have to pony up more money (I already called my "peeps" to find the funds) I'm off in a new direction.

Here's what I think it could look like.

(see attachment)

I'm still thinking about using the "shop" as a booth, complete with sightline into the CR...

The only available plumbing to hack into is in the back left, so that's where I'm headed. This "revelation" is going to cost me about $30,000 more construction dollars, but I'll do most of the actual construction myself.

I figured out how to get the cash, and now, I'm gonna try and start new fires to put out.

One of the nicest layouts I ever saw had the shop located right off the main live space, to allow direct access. It was nice to be able to "tinker" with set-ups, and go back and forth, but I may end up trekking back into "studio siberia" to hit the shop, when this is all said and done.

I'd also like my record decks in the CR if possible. If nothing else, I like looking at the Studer 2" decks as they "glow and glimmer..."

I need guitar and amp storage, and it looks like I need a decent sized room for that, so I'm looking at creating a "vault."

And, since this patio will end up annexed to the studio, it'll be "below grade." So, we'll have to punch up a roof, with strip windows on the "knee walls," to let light in. No more skylights! Argh!

[SurveillanceP]

Hey Lex,
Have you thought about air conditioning/temperature control? I imagine that would take some space. I guess if you're underground you don't need to worry about having floating walls/floor/ceiling?

edit: Have you thought about having some recessed diffusion, if only for erection inducing bling purposes? So slutty...

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by jwl

Wow, very very cool. There's a lot you could do in that space, with that budget.

Have you considered hiring a studio designer? Wes Lachot springs to mind.

I'll second that recommendation, and here's why. What you've got it a box (well, four boxes actually, but together they make a box). Wes Lachot is freakin' brilliant when it comes to thinking "out of the box". That's where I think you want to take this studio...

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by SurveillanceP

Hey Lex,
Have you thought about air conditioning/temperature control? I imagine that would take some space. I guess if you're underground you don't need to worry about having floating walls/floor/ceiling?

edit: Have you thought about having some recessed diffusion, if only for erection inducing bling purposes? So slutty...

Hey "SP,"

HVAC is gonna be "geothermal" assisted. Picture a tube drilled into the ground, with air pumped down into it, cooled by the earth, and then and then recirc'd into the spaces required. It's "almost" passive.

"We don't need no stinkin floatin floors..." Mother Earth is isolation enough. We'll use hardwood, or something warm and cool lookin, to enhance the "vibe."

Hmmm... "recessed diffusion." Got any examples in mind? Show me the "slutty stuff..." Bling is good!

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by Clueless

I'll second that recommendation, and here's why. What you've got it a box (well, four boxes actually, but together they make a box). Wes Lachot is freakin' brilliant when it comes to thinking "out of the box". That's where I think you want to take this studio...

Wes Lachot? Are you kidding? He's from "North Carolina!" He's probably a Yankee! We don't trust "Northerner's" down here in these parts...

Just kiddin, Wes... I'll call ya when I get back from LA.

[Axiz7]

Pictures of the Harley would be cool.

[SurveillanceP]

Originally Posted by Lexinator

Hey "SP,"

HVAC is gonna be "geothermal" assisted. Picture a tube drilled into the ground, with air pumped down into it, cooled by the earth, and then and then recirc'd into the spaces required. It's "almost" passive.

"We don't need no stinkin floatin floors..." Mother Earth is isolation enough. We'll use hardwood, or something warm and cool lookin, to enhance the "vibe."

Hmmm... "recessed diffusion." Got any examples in mind? Show me the "slutty stuff..." Bling is good!

Hey Lex!

The geothermal ground thing.. I heard a whole program about that on Radio National Australia recently, and it sounds totally sweet! Good Work!

RE: recessed diffussion- In the Mastering Forum- International hotshot Darius Van something or other in those damn hippie European countries has his signature pic of him sitting in front of some heavy duty rear wall skyline diffusers. And he has a studio build thread which is amazing check it out!

As he said in one of the threads on this site- You can spend money on gear to impress clients but- If your room looks damn cool, they are impressed alot more!

(Darius now would be a good time to condesened to the home bedroom guys level and tell us that your skylines aren't a repeating pattern muhahaha)

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by SurveillanceP

Hey Lex!

The geothermal ground thing.. I heard a whole program about that on Radio National Australia recently, and it sounds totally sweet! Good Work!

RE: recessed diffussion- In the Mastering Forum- International hotshot Darius Van something or other in those damn hippie European countries has his signature pic of him sitting in front of some heavy duty rear wall skyline diffusers. And he has a studio build thread which is amazing check it out!

As he said in one of the threads on this site- You can spend money on gear to impress clients but- If your room looks damn cool, they are impressed alot more!

(Darius now would be a good time to condesened to the home bedroom guys level and tell us that your skylines aren't a repeating pattern muhahaha)

Ya got a thread link? I looked thru the forum, but couldn't find the posts you're referring to!

I'm not so worried about what "people will think." I have a real good designer that I can blame that on. (Just kidding Wes, put the gun down...)

The Man Cave is gonna be something special. Cool digs to record in, but the way it came about (in a "cave", fed by the sun. cooled by the earth, surrounding you like a warm... um...er... cocoon...) will definitely start some "buzz..."

Hell, I'm already getting some flack from the "feminist rockers" about "the name..." Hey, I got nothing against girls... Lexx likes girls... but don't tell my wife. She'd thrash me!

I'm more concerned with finding ways to make the looks actually "perform" together acoustically.

But, if that way just happens to look like it rocks, that's good too!

[SurveillanceP]

Here you go,


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/members/darius-van-h

His profile picture is him lounging in front of some recessed diffusers. Should photoshop in a girl under each arm IMO. Hrm... maybe I should do that and make it my profile pitcture.

THE MAN CAVE!!!

Well if you're going to allow access to women, maybe you should consider picking them up in a black van drom the drop spot, blindfolding them, then driving randomly through the streets before going to THE MAN CAVE, then removing the blindfold?

One can't be too careful with the feminist rockers.

[Lexinator]

Originally Posted by SurveillanceP

Here you go,


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/members/darius-van-h

His profile picture is him lounging in front of some recessed diffusers. Should photoshop in a girl under each arm IMO. Hrm... maybe I should do that and make it my profile pitcture.

Got it!

THE MAN CAVE!!!

Well if you're going to allow access to women, maybe you should consider picking them up in a black van drom the drop spot, blindfolding them, then driving randomly through the streets before going to THE MAN CAVE, then removing the blindfold?

Last time I tried that, the judge called it "Felony Kidnapping..."

One can't be too careful with the feminist rockers.

Feminist rockers aren't so bad. It's their managers who usually suck!