Do I really need to build a room?

[lodstudios@gmail]

I have spent the last two days on this forum, my eyes are burning and my wallet is even worse at the sights of what some of you have done on here...great studios!

I am in the process of looking for a space for my studio, I am looking for no more than 1,200 sq ft...I know, small. However, I have read over and over again that you need to build the "room within the room". Is this absolutely needed? I can understand the physics behind it all, but I have spent five years in a 8X9 bedroom with only auralex up...it has done really well. My main concern is mix room isolation and not pissing people off....are there ways of doing this without going nuts? I am looking to spend about 3k on construction...am I out of my mind?

Thanks in advance!

[Glenn Kuras]

are there ways of doing this without going nuts?

No

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

I have read over and over again that you need to build the "room within the room". Is this absolutely needed?

Not at all! That type of construction is needed only for sound isolation, and doesn't help the acoustics inside the room even a little.

--Ethan

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

I have spent the last two days on this forum, my eyes are burning and my wallet is even worse at the sights of what some of you have done on here...great studios!

I am in the process of looking for a space for my studio, I am looking for no more than 1,200 sq ft...I know, small. However, I have read over and over again that you need to build the "room within the room". Is this absolutely needed? I can understand the physics behind it all, but I have spent five years in a 8X9 bedroom with only auralex up...it has done really well. My main concern is mix room isolation and not pissing people off....are there ways of doing this without going nuts? I am looking to spend about 3k on construction...am I out of my mind?

Thanks in advance!

If you don't *need* to build for isolation, then don't. You'll save yourself $150 grand or so. What room do you have to start with? Any chance you can post some pics?

Frank

[lodstudios@gmail]

Here is a basic layout of the room...green wall is brick with no one on the other side and the black wall is a shared regular wall...I was thinking of dividing the room in two..is this even possible? Any chance of building just a live room inside this room?

This is about 500 sq ft.

Thanks Again!

[IMG]file:///Users/STUDIO/Desktop/Office.jpg[/IMG]

[audiovisceral]

what are the dimensions? looks awfully narrow..

and who are you sharing with?

do a simple test. bring your studio monitors to the space, crank some music to the volume of a live band, and ask the neighbor if you can check how loudly it leaks through to their space. (warn them and get permission before cranking)

decide from that.

also QuietRock Soundproof Drywall might help. never tried it but it looks good..

[lodstudios@gmail]

room is about 15x34

[lodstudios@gmail]

Let me ask this...would it be possible to build a simple live room only and leave the rest as a control room...how best can I NOT piss the guy off next door?

[Tomer1]

Finding a space in an optimal area will save you the hassle (and money) to build an insulated room.

In some industrial areas you can find spaces which were used as workshops and were purpose built to be decoupled since they are now meant to be converted as office space,
The intenssive and expenssive labor which was dont doesnt play a role so you are getting an insulated space for free.

Taking that this is not a pro studio and needs to be in a central area to attract clients:
Look for somewhere remote ,far away as possible from a busy road\street.


Edit: I see you are planing to incorporate it in a residential area.... not sure its possible to do without expenssive decoupling.

[lodstudios@gmail]

The place I am looking at is in a business park, only one shared wall...I was thinking a isolated love room would do the trick.

[John Robinson]

An isolated love room would do the trick for me every time ...

[lodstudios@gmail]

Ok...here goes.

I am in San Diego, CA. I would like to spend less than $2,500 for the build but I know it will most likely be a lot more. I have a budget of about 5k to build, I would prefer to come in WAY below that to keep some set aside for slow times.

The dimensions are 15ftX34 ft and about 9ft ceiling. It is a long room, I would like to have a very small area for people to chill out in, watch tv and such but it isn't needed if it won't fit.

I share one wall with a CPA, he is retired and rarely works but I want to be able to record any time I want. This is in a business park, there are several different businesses there so this room will need to be as quiet as possible.

I record all types of music, mainly indie rock and pop rock though. I have clients who pay me to produce their records, this is what I do for a living. I would like a decent size live room and a room that will accommodate a large size Omnirax Desk.

Let me know if you need my gear list...I do use Mackie HR 824's as monitors.

One wall is solid brick, the other is drywall and studs.

I tried to give everything I could, please let me know if you need anything else. I simply need help with a good layout, all help is appreciated!

Best,
Keith

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Ok...here goes.

I am in San Diego, CA. I would like to spend less than $2,500 for the build but I know it will most likely be a lot more. I have a budget of about 5k to build, I would prefer to come in WAY below that to keep some set aside for slow times.

The dimensions are 15ftX34 ft and about 9ft ceiling. It is a long room, I would like to have a very small area for people to chill out in, watch tv and such but it isn't needed if it won't fit.

I share one wall with a CPA, he is retired and rarely works but I want to be able to record any time I want. This is in a business park, there are several different businesses there so this room will need to be as quiet as possible.

I record all types of music, mainly indie rock and pop rock though. I have clients who pay me to produce their records, this is what I do for a living. I would like a decent size live room and a room that will accommodate a large size Omnirax Desk.

Let me know if you need my gear list...I do use Mackie HR 824's as monitors.

One wall is solid brick, the other is drywall and studs.

I tried to give everything I could, please let me know if you need anything else. I simply need help with a good layout, all help is appreciated!

Best,
Keith

Keith, I hate to be the bearer of bad news man, but your budget is off by a factor of ten, if not twenty...especially in San Diego. I'm from there originally and I know what it costs to buy and build. If I missed something please let me know, otherwise your budget just isn't realistic at all.

Frank

[Trev@Circle]

My room is in many ways similar though about twice the size (see the circle studios diary thread). I'd love my cost to come in under a 100k (but it aint going to come close)

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

The dimensions are 15ftX34 ft and about 9ft ceiling.

You will probably have to give in atleast 3 feet from each walls side if you want good isolation, leaving you with a 9 by 28 room, then if you want a liveroom you will end up with 9 by 14 by 9 rooms, wich is far from ideal. You could consider not splitting up and use one room for both tracking and mixing...

[lodstudios@gmail]

Please forgive my ignorance, this is my first build and I am having a hard time seeing how the costs would get up that high. Suppose I was to use the 9X28 option and split into two rooms....Attatched is a John Sayers design that he posted for free...realistically, what would the costs be on something like this? Can you outline how the costs get so high? Again, please forgive my ignorance...I would like to see what things will actually cost.

One other thing...I am not sure if it is clear, but I won't be buying a building. Is that why you were thinking the costs would be so high?

Thanks!

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Please forgive my ignorance, this is my first build and I am having a hard time seeing how the costs would get up that high. Suppose I was to use the 9X28 option and split into two rooms....Attatched is a John Sayers design that he posted for free...realistically, what would the costs be on something like this? Can you outline how the costs get so high? Again, please forgive my ignorance...I would like to see what things will actually cost.

One other thing...I am not sure if it is clear, but I won't be buying a building. Is that why you were thinking the costs would be so high?

Thanks!

All you have to do is head on down to home depot and check out pricing on all the construction materials. Remember that you're talking about more than one layer of sheet rock separated by GG, then hat channel to isolate the sheet rock from the studs. The floor has to be floated from the structure, the ceiling has to be iso'd from the walls and the shell...and none of this even touches on electrical infrastructure, structural stuff, permits, fit and finish and all the other million things I'm leaving out.

Honestly, with $5,000 I don't think you'd even have enough to build the walls and the floor (with isolation in mind).

Frank

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Please forgive my ignorance, this is my first build and I am having a hard time seeing how the costs would get up that high. Suppose I was to use the 9X28 option and split into two rooms....Attatched is a John Sayers design that he posted for free...realistically, what would the costs be on something like this? Can you outline how the costs get so high? Again, please forgive my ignorance...I would like to see what things will actually cost.

One other thing...I am not sure if it is clear, but I won't be buying a building. Is that why you were thinking the costs would be so high?

Thanks!

Are you doing the work yourself or hiring a contractor? Labor is usually 2/3 of the total cost.

Also, realize that in order to stop bass you need MASS... If you want to record drums in there, you are going to need a big air gap and a REALLY thick interior wall. My friend just built a studio, he ended up having to put 3 layers of sealed MDF on the walls, then some of that acoustic rubber/vinyl stuff, then 3 layers of drywall on the inner wall... This is also on top of filling the space between the walls with fiberglass. You will also need to "float" your floor and "suspend your ceiling". Otherwise, the bass vibrations will go right through the concrete floor and sound will escape out the ceiling. So your 9' ceiling is going to drop to 8' pretty quickly.

Also, you have to think about HVAC if you haven't already. You can't share HVAC with your neighbors because the sound will go through the vents. So, if the space doesn't have it's own separate A/C and furnace, you will have to install them. Plus, in order to keep the noise down in your room, you will need to baffle and snake the ducts... and you'll need to setup 2 zones, one for the CR and one for the live room. And the Zones need to be as acoustically isolated as possible.

I'm not sure how much you are paying for the space, but honestly you might want to look into renting a house. I know commercial real estate up here in LA is usually around $3000~$6000 for a 1000 sq ft space in a wharehouse, probably more in an office park... for that you can rent a house, use it as a studio, and so long as the lot is a decent size, you won't have to worry about neighbors. If the house has a basement or garage you can ask to Isolate that for drums and all the rest of the house can remain untouched.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

I should also add, now's probably a great time to look for housing rentals... since not very many people can buy houses right now and a lot of people are on the verge of forclosure, people are looking to rent their house to someone who could afford the mortgage payment rather than lose the property.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

You could probably sound proof a 2 or 3 car garage enough to record drums for around $3000~$5000 so long as nobody is living in the house and your lot is at least around 5000sq ft (or so... the main thing is how far away the garage is from your neighbors). A corner lot with the garage closest to the corner would be ideal. setup whatever room is next to or nearest the garage as your control room.

Just remember, a lot of great records were made in houses. Everyone from Zepplin to Red Hot Chilli Peppers have rented out big houses to record a lot of their best sounding albums. Don't feel like you need a "studio" to have a studio.

[lodstudios@gmail]

Thanks for all the insight.
I understand, based on what I read on floor isolation, that it is not always a need to float the floor....

The place I was looking at is 512 sq ft and is only $625 a month, it is on the low end of what I was wanting to spend...I have thought of a house as an option as well...seeing as how San Diego homes are so close together I am afraid I would run into the same issue. No?

[henryrobinett]

I'm looking at your quest vicariously as I'm in a similar boat. I think the estimates of $150k and more are ludicrous. For myself, I'm not building that kind of studio. If you fall into kind of a similar boat as me -- I should keep my mouth shut because I have no idea what you are trying to achieve.

But I have 800 sq ft for $600 a month. It's a warehouse kind of space in the back ally of a small shopping mall. I'm spending about $800 - 1,000 to build a nice iso booth. Another $500 to build another iso booth. No floating floor. Certain walls are doubled with space in between. Open control room. Nothing fancy. Nothing expensive.

I think in this business you MUST think big and start small, otherwise you fold early.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Thanks for all the insight.
I understand, based on what I read on floor isolation, that it is not always a need to float the floor....

The place I was looking at is 512 sq ft and is only $625 a month, it is on the low end of what I was wanting to spend...I have thought of a house as an option as well...seeing as how San Diego homes are so close together I am afraid I would run into the same issue. No?

It isn't always necessary to float a floor...but it also isn't necessary to build a double wall. You don't HAVE to do anything. But, what if your neighbor does start complaining about the noise? Then what? It'll cost you more to go back and redo it that it will to do it the first time.

If you don't feel the low freq's will bother him coming through the concrete floor, then don't bother with a floating floor. If he won't mind hearing the session through the air vents, then you don't need to worry about a separate A/C unit. What is going to be troublesome is sharing a wall, floor and HVAC with neighbors. It's really about how much your neighbors can tolerate.

I understand what you are saying about houses in San Diego. I've only been down there a couple times and don't really remember what the housing is like. But even if they are pretty close... for $5000 in sound proofing you could very easily get it to acceptable levels. On the other hand though, $625 for a 512sp ft space is a pretty good deal. That kind of negates the whole "house" concept. Heck, maybe through the old man $50 or $100 bucks every month just as a "thank you" for putting up with the noise! HAHAHA might save you $1000's in the cost of having to isolate the studio.

[lodstudios@gmail]

Totally understood...I think I will aim my focus on a location where noise isn't an issue...I can build the room within a room and not worry about HVAC interference.

[robmix]

$2500 should cover the rockwool in a room that size. . . . .

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

But I have 800 sq ft for $600 a month. It's a warehouse kind of space in the back ally of a small shopping mall. I'm spending about $800 - 1,000 to build a nice iso booth. Another $500 to build another iso booth. No floating floor. Certain walls are doubled with space in between. Open control room. Nothing fancy. Nothing expensive.

I think in this business you MUST think big and start small, otherwise you fold early.

Henry is absolutely right. And there is always a medium that can be found between doing it cheap/wrong, and going nuts.

I think for around $4k-$5k you could do something like this (if you do all the work yourself):



not a proper mock up but it is to scale with your 34' x 15' space.
You've got more space than i had to work, so it can definitely be done and sound great. Use some 4" bass traps in those 3 90° corners in the live room. Use a heavy half-glass door between the two large rooms.
Reading back, you're probably going to need more mass on that top wall too.

hopefully you've got enough ceiling (11' at least) to be able to float both it and the floor, which will run you a few grand more in materials. otherwise just look for a different space man.

and spend alot of time on johnlsayers forums, a true wealth of info.

[lodstudios@gmail]

Adam, I am in no way married to this place...I appreciate the layout!
I did you check out your studio and it is very nice, your gear is fantastic!

Out of curiosity, how many square feet are you working in? What were your dimensions?

Best,
Keith

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by lodstudios@gmail

Adam, I am in no way married to this place...I appreciate the layout!

replied to your PM