Setting up my lil studio to get a great mix

[dredre]

Hello everyone... I've been lurking on this board trying to gain some knowledge about how to setup my lil home studio.

So far here's my plan

0- $150 Bucks 4 ETF5 software
$200 for Accoustic Room Kit @ guitar center...
some kind of omni-mic

or

$ 450 IK ARC

So the question is: Am i on the right path...or lost in the woods????

here's the spec 11x9.6X9h



From the picture, I'm standing at the door... it's a study area/ with the double wooden doors. with some book/knick knack racks each side. The floors are made with the "plug and play" wood-ish material...LOL

I was thinking about just getting IK's ARC and calling it a day...but from what I'm gathering that's not the solution

We don't plan to stay here forever, so I didn't want to go too crazy.. just a lil something to get a great mix.

I'm currently doing the "compare CD back and forth with mix" method... but i'm guessing there could be a better with with EQ'n or treating a room.... wasting a bucket of cd in the process...lol


Thx guys in advance.....

If I overlooked a post that adequately addresses my issue... please post link or give me a few tags to search on....

[Jake Dempsey]

If I were you, I'd def. take sonic measurements of the room and treat standing waves accordingly. Some rigid mineral fiber for absorption throughout the room and some diffusing treatment on the back wall. (just a guess from looking at the photo)

[dredre]

Thanks Jake...

Quick question.
I'm new to the terminology, so i'm assuming taking sonic measurements would be for example...

1. Grab Room EQ Wizard.
2. Grab a SPL meter
3. then follow the rest of the instructions here..
Room EQ Wizard Help Index

Diffusion treatment.. i would think include..


http://shop.froogleweb.com/images/16...FOAM%20028.jpg

or just put a sound blanket on the back wall

http://www.lighting-rentals.com/movingblanket.jpg

[stuntbutt]

I wouldn't bother with any measurements. All they are going to show you is that you need lots of low freq. absorption. Even after you install a bunch of bass traps and your room sounds better, guess what, the measurements will still say "more bass trapping"!

Check out this article:

RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room

Check out products from RealTraps and GIK Acoustics. Foam isn't going to cut it.

[Lemonsqueezer]

I partly agree with the advice with not bothering to measure the room.

A lot of the advice given here on this site is usually for a more generic treament. Broadband absorbers. Thicker for the corners to help control the bass and some panels on the first points of reflection.

However Your room may have a particular problem modal resonance (or several) and sonic measurements will help you see if you are managing to target them effectively.

Once you have found the problem frequency you can set up a test tone at that frequency and move the mic around the room to see where the resonance is strongest and thus place your thicker traps there.

In addition a SPL meter can also be used to calibrate your monitoring system afterwards. This is more common in Audio post production, but I personally think it is a good practice for music production as well.

[Mixbuster]

I recommend putting your desk and yourself lenghtwise with the room. As far as I can see you're sitting along the longest wall.

[Glenn Kuras]

Here is the thing about testing the room guys.


I agree that at the end you WILL treat the room, but testing the room upfront will also tell you if you are in the best location in the room. Treatment is MOST important but location with set up is just as important. From looking at this room posted I can tell you that if you where to test the room how it set up now then move it so you are facing the short wall you would see a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the response. At that point you can move back or forward to fine tune (with testing). Then treat the HELL out of room with PROPER bass trapping (not that foam and blankets) and MIX MIX MIX away.

edit: Testing will also tell you if you have placed the products right in the room. There are cases that "sometimes" placing a panel on the wall can actually make things worse.

Glenn

[dredre]

thanks guys for the tips... so basically i do need bass traps... and reading the links provided... something to catch the reflections on the back/side walls...

So i'm guessing I'll go pick up a SPL from radio shack and download room eq wizard

however, i have a quick question...
since my room is 11 X 9.6 how much difference would 1 1/2 feet make... could it be compensated with some extra traps and etc....????

i made a quick mock up and it seems like i'm not gonna gain to much space.


and based on the diagrams i've seen, would i just stack up bass traps up in a corner?

another view

[Lemonsqueezer]

Love the mock up, what program you use for that?

Anyways I was going to say don't forget the ceilings first reflection point. As for the 1.5ft thing. Generally it is better but every room is different. you can always test is as your are getting the measurement tools. I like the idea of having the futon behind as well.

Can't wait to see it finished. Before and after measurements would be cool to see as well.

Hope it goes smoothly for you.

[dredre]

Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer

Love the mock up, what program you use for that?

Anyways I was going to say don't forget the ceilings first reflection point. As for the 1.5ft thing. Generally it is better but every room is different. you can always test is as your are getting the measurement tools. I like the idea of having the futon behind as well.

Can't wait to see it finished. Before and after measurements would be cool to see as well.

Hope it goes smoothly for you.

Thanks LS...

i used Google Sketchup Google SketchUp for the mock up...lol

it's free unless u want to go "pro"

but i got impatient/lazy and went to photoshop for the blocks and to copy/paste product images...hahah

cool i'll begin to work on everything over the weekend... and we'll see what happens

[Glenn Kuras]

however, i have a quick question...
since my room is 11 X 9.6 how much difference would 1 1/2 feet make... could it be compensated with some extra traps and etc....????

Not sure I understand your question. sorry.

and based on the diagrams i've seen, would i just stack up bass traps up in a corner?

Yes the more area you cover the better the bass response will become.

Glenn

[dredre]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Not sure I understand your question. sorry.

Glenn

my bad... it was late...

From looking at this room posted I can tell you that if you where to test the room how it set up now then move it so you are facing the short wall you would see a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the response.

oh I was saying... since my room is only 11x9.5 how much difference would remodelling the room make for the speakers to face the length of 11 feet(longways) rather than the current set up of the speakers facing 9.5 feet.

and could i throw up an extra bass trap or something and it would make up for the 1.5 feet.

[Glenn Kuras]

oh I was saying... since my room is only 11x9.5 how much difference would remodelling the room make for the speakers to face the length of 11 feet(longways) rather than the current set up of the speakers facing 9.5 feet.

and could i throw up an extra bass trap or something and it would make up for the 1.5 feet.

You would need to test it both ways to see (see how that testing thing comes up lol), but I think you would agree that the 1.5 feet do help. If you do stay that way (which I understand) then putting thicker absorption on the back wall would help. Not sure if as good or better then turning to short wall though..

Glenn

[RyanC]

A couple things,

You dont really need an SPL meter to get usable measurements from REW, just know that the spl measurements are acurate in a relative sense, but not in an absolute sense. . . which is generally all you need. Get a ECM8000.

What you want is to put up as much 703, or mineral fiber as your budget can contain, but put it in the most important places, you can find all that info on Glen's website.

Then instead of buying any of the the off the shelf room eq programs, just use any eq plugin you have, and try to even out the low end as much as possible. Just remeber to turn it off when you bounce your mix down. There is no real magic to automatic room eq, and that is actually what REW was designed for, it will even automatically generate corrective eq's that you can plug in to your EQ plugin.

Generally, I don't think there is anything wrong with using a little eq to tame the stuff that the treatment still could not "fix", but I cant imagine using only EQ and expecting good results.

[Lemonsqueezer]

I have been brought up with the philosophy that acoustic problems need to be fixed in that domain.. EQing will bring about a whole host of other problems which are not desirable for the engineer.

tutttutt

[dredre]

Originally Posted by RyanC

A couple things,

Get a ECM8000.

I'll check into that... what about the DBX RTA-M???

that is all they carry at the guitar center.....or i could just order it if i want to wait

What you want is to put up as much 703, or mineral fiber as your budget can contain, but put it in the most important places, you can find all that info on Glen's website.

the budget is tight around these times....Frackin economy!!!!

So i'll have to spend wisely... i guess we will have to go to home depot and the fabric store.. and get to building frames....DIY-style...

What weight mineral fiber should i get... i've seen 6 lbs 8 lbs and etc... as well as 2,4,6 in of thickness...

Then instead of buying any of the the off the shelf room eq programs, just use any eq plugin you have, and try to even out the low end as much as possible. Just remeber to turn it off when you bounce your mix down. There is no real magic to automatic room eq, and that is actually what REW was designed for, it will even automatically generate corrective eq's that you can plug in to your EQ plugin.

i'm using cubase4... yea... I can run the eq out the stereo out...

[dredre]

here's some more details.. (see below) i believe these are to scale... my wife said it looks just as crowded as it does now... so i think this is a good representative...e

so after i get the measurements... the goal is to figure out what goes where... Also i'm not sure i'll have enuff room for 38% LOL

[Lemonsqueezer]

Love the diagram.

I'm ordering some speaker stands, a SPL meter and the ECM8000!!

Then I will post my proposal for my own room treatment for some feedback.

I am in a situation where I rent and can't go attaching things to the walls, ceiling. etc........and I also will want to take any treatment with me when I move.

I'm hoping to sell a few items to raise the cash for this little project, but I shouldn't be too far behind you dredre.

[dredre]

Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer

Love the diagram.

I'm ordering some speaker stands, a SPL meter and the ECM8000!!

Then I will post my proposal for my own room treatment for some feedback.

I am in a situation where I rent and can't go attaching things to the walls, ceiling. etc........and I also will want to take any treatment with me when I move.

I'm hoping to sell a few items to raise the cash for this little project, but I shouldn't be too far behind you dredre.

awesome!!!! i just ordered a ECM8000 myself... what kind of SPL meter are you looking at... Radio Shacks or Galaxy CM-140

[Lemonsqueezer]

DIGITAL SOUND 8928 - U.K. International Cyberstore

That one.

I found a cheaper one but it looked really shit. This one does a & c weighting and fast or slow response. Should do the job. Although its a German company I am based in UK. They do free delivery over a certain price and they get it here quicker than a company in the same city.

I got to knock up a plan of my room and take some photos. Want to do some before and after shots.

[dredre]

Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer

DIGITAL SOUND 8928 - U.K. International Cyberstore

That one.

I found a cheaper one but it looked really shit. This one does a & c weighting and fast or slow response. Should do the job. Although its a German company I am based in UK. They do free delivery over a certain price and they get it here quicker than a company in the same city.

I got to knock up a plan of my room and take some photos. Want to do some before and after shots.

yea it does look crappy...

cool i'd love to see your plans and photos... yea. download sketchup it is easy if you use the helper/info window... and give yourself a few hours.. after all is just a bunch of circles and squares... and then the program does the rest....

[dredre]

As for ceiling treatment... how should i go about that one.. should some 2" auralex wedges t-pinned in the ceiling suffice???

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by dredre

As for ceiling treatment... how should i go about that one.. should some 2" auralex wedges t-pinned in the ceiling suffice???

That'll work fine, but you'd be better of with 4" panels...you're going to need all the bass trapping you can get.

Frank

[dredre]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

That'll work fine, but you'd be better of with 4" panels...you're going to need all the bass trapping you can get.

Frank

cool! I'm number crunching trying to see what the budget allows....


Here's my First REW reading... i think it is correct..
at the 38%-ish position

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by dredre

here's some more details.. (see below) i believe these are to scale... my wife said it looks just as crowded as it does now... so i think this is a good representative...e

so after i get the measurements... the goal is to figure out what goes where... Also i'm not sure i'll have enuff room for 38% LOL

I did not read EVERY post but is there a reason you are facing the long wall? You really should be facing the short wall (the window) and start by sitting back 38%.

Glenn

[Weasel9992]

Yeah...I don't know how I missed that. Glenn's right...if you can move things around that'd be great.

Frank

[dredre]

thx guys i'm currently working on unhooking everything.. and i thought i laid all the wired down untangled....hahah and i thought velcro straps would be a hassle...haha

The reasonwas the futon.....

[Glenn Kuras]

The reasonwas the futon.....

Your going to let a futon stand in the way of getting the best sound for your room? Please say it is not so?

[dredre]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Your going to let a futon stand in the way of getting the best sound for your room? Please say it is not so?

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Your going to let a futon stand in the way of getting the best sound for your room? Please say it is not so?

Hi Glenn,

I have a similar room dimension (12x9) to the OP and was wondering if the speakers being in front of a large window (like shown above) is a good idea or not?

I have set my DAW / monitor speakers up the longer way as apposed to the shortest side of the room, but you have got me thinking now .

In a rectanglular room, would it be best to always position speakers to the shortest wall as a starting point? My concern being that the speakers are much closer to the corners in this setup.



Many thanks for all your great advice thumbsup