Whats the Ideal monitor height?

[Lemonsqueezer]

I appreciate the need for the tweeter to be at ear level, or your ears between the tweeter and mid/bass drivers.

What I want to know is, what the best placement in the vertical plain from floor to ceiling, i.e best placement for performance in the room. Does it follow the 38% rule, and if so, what point on the speaker do you calculate it from? centre of the bass/mid driver? I am using Mackie HR824's.

I have some flexibility with regards to adjusting my listening height and the angle of the monitors as I have Mopads and a nice uppy downy chair

Any help would be appreciated.

[Ethan Winer]

Yes, I assume the 38 percent "rule" will have the same advantage vertically as front-to-back. But it's more important for the tweeters to be at ear level.

--Ethan

[Lemonsqueezer]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Yes, I assume the 38 percent "rule" will have the same advantage vertically as front-to-back. But it's more important for the tweeters to be at ear level.

--Ethan

Thanks for the quick response. I certainly won't compromise the tweeter to ear relationship.

Should I use the centre of the bass/mid driver for calculating the 38% position?

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer

Should I use the centre of the bass/mid driver for calculating the 38% position?

Sorry, I may be missing something, but if you're going to ensure that the tweeters are at ear level, how will you get the mid/bass drivers at 38%?

Frank

[DSD_Mastering]

I would say to get them as close to measured accuracy as you can. Lots of things come into play... such as vertical axis of the tweeter, do you have a console between you and the speakers, floor/ceiling interaction... etc...

Regards,

[Lemonsqueezer]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

Sorry, I may be missing something, but if you're going to ensure that the tweeters are at ear level, how will you get the mid/bass drivers at 38%?

Frank

The bass/mid relationship to the vertical plane of the room, i.e floor to ceiling. The theory is the monitors will gel better with in the room. I then adjust my seating height and use the angle function on my Mopads to get the correct tweeter to ear relationship.

[Lemonsqueezer]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

I would say to get them as close to measured accuracy as you can. Lots of things come into play... such as vertical axis of the tweeter, do you have a console between you and the speakers, floor/ceiling interaction... etc...

Regards,

This is my home set up. So no console just a desk with Midi keyboard and computer keyboard.

Basically I have allocated myself a budget for improving the room, which is untreated. The budget is small and will be used to optimize listening position and provide an acoustic treatment (not isolation). Bass trapping and first reflections control.

I am purchasing some stands soon so I can get myself in an equilateral triangle with the speakers and get myself 38% away from front wall. I was just thinking why not get stands which will set me up for 38% vertically as well, with out compromising tweeter-ear relationship. at the moment the monitors are central in the vertical plain and fire slightly down to (Mopads) to aim for my ears. If I go for lower stands I can get pretty close to 38% positioning for the centre of the bass/mid driver in the vertical plain. I would then not need to have the monitors slightly firing down but perpendicular to the floor and ceiling.

[Keith Moore]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Yes, I assume the 38 percent "rule" will have the same advantage vertically as front-to-back. But it's more important for the tweeters to be at ear level.

--Ethan

I am about the build stands for my monitors. So is the general rule to align the tweeter height to your ears?

[Jens Eklund]

Acoustic Axis Tables for Genelec Loudspeakers

[Keith Moore]

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund

Acoustic Axis Tables for Genelec Loudspeakers

Thanks, would be great if Dynaudio has a chart. I have BM6A's (not the MKII's). Anyone know the specified height to ear relation for those?

[Jens Eklund]

If nothing’s stated, I would assume that the acoustic axis is midway between the center of the two drivers.

[spice house]

yeah but aren't there really several acoustic axis that vary in the z axis based on frequency? (for coned speakers). The average acoustic axis will not stay in the same place with multiple drivers, but will also vary on the y axis based on frequency.

most speakers are designed for optimal response with the tweeter on axis.

[Keith Moore]

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund

If nothing’s stated, I would assume that the acoustic axis is midway between the center of the two drivers.

Originally Posted by spice house

yeah but aren't there really several acoustic axis that vary in the z axis based on frequency? (for coned speakers). The average acoustic axis will not stay in the same place with multiple drivers, but will also vary on the y axis based on frequency.

most speakers are designed for optimal response with the tweeter on axis.

I emailed Dynaudio asking what if anything they recommend. I'll post their reply if anyone is curious.

[boggy]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

Sorry, I may be missing something, but if you're going to ensure that the tweeters are at ear level, how will you get the mid/bass drivers at 38%?
.........

It's better to find position by measurement, and "38% rule" may be used for a start.

You can tilt loudspeakers to target your ears, if you find better position below or above ear height..

And yes, it's best to ask loudspeaker manufacturer, where acoustic axis is... tweeter or between tweeter and mid driver (if there was nothing about this in user manual)

Hope this helps..

[boggy]

I attached picture of tilted loudspeakers mounted on "ceiling" (small old Rogers LS3/5a for radio station). Acoustical treatment is above loudspeakers, not real ceiling. This is a best position that was discovered for this speakers in this room (this day! ) with acoustical measurements.

[Jens Eklund]

Originally Posted by boggy

I attached picture of tilted loudspeakers mounted on "ceiling" (small old Rogers LS3/5a for radio station). Acoustical treatment is above loudspeakers, not real ceiling. This is a best position that was discovered for this speakers in this room (this day! ) with acoustical measurements.

I guess the picture is giving a false impression but it looks like you’re far from an equilateral setup.

[boggy]

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund

I guess the picture is giving a false impression but it looks like you’re far from an equilateral setup.

We are positioned first one single loudspeaker folowing measurements, second is mounted symmetrically to first and measured.... if I understand question.
If you find that something isn't symmetrical, that is probably because camera lenses.

Cheers,

Bogic

[boggy]

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund

I guess the picture is giving a false impression but it looks like you’re far from an equilateral setup.

Ah... equilateral... I didn't understand you, yes... you're right... it isn't equilateral...
this is a best postion that we discover in this room.. and this position isn't equliateral....

[Jens Eklund]

Originally Posted by boggy

Ah... equilateral... I didn't understand you, yes... you're right... it isn't equilateral...
this is a best postion that we discover in this room.. and this position isn't equliateral....

So what about the stereo width? It looks like it’s quite far from the norm (equilateral).

[boggy]

Originally Posted by Jens Eklund

So what about the stereo width? It looks like it’s quite far from the norm (equilateral).

Stereo width isn't best, but it's acceptable for customers needs. This is radio station studio control monitoring, no music production monitoring. Symmetrical placement in room and overall good response conditions for each loudspeaker are dominant prerequisites.
There are also door that cannot be opened because speakers.. if they are mounted equilateral ... if you look carefully, you will see.
It's best possible compromise...

[Chris G]

I'm considering the same 38% issues but I'm setting up a 11ft by 11ft room and 38% away from the wall means I'm basically sitting in the middle if the room! What am I sacrificing by getting closer to the wall but still keeping the 38% rule vertically in my room?

[boggy]

Originally Posted by Chris G

I'm considering the same 38% issues but I'm setting up a 11ft by 11ft room and 38% away from the wall means I'm basically sitting in the middle if the room! What am I sacrificing by getting closer to the wall but still keeping the 38% rule vertically in my room?

Do some measurements... and compare. If you find a better position/response, then use it.

Cheers

Bogic

[Keith Moore]

Can someone post some links to literature about this 38% rule as I am not familiar with it.

[avare]

Originally Posted by Keith Moore

Can someone post some links to literature about this 38% rule as I am not familiar with it.

It is a starting point for listening position determination in terms of percentage of the dimension of the plane the listening position is in.

IT IS NOT A RULE.

Andre

[Starlight]

Keith, read the bottom half of the green sidebar on this page about how Wes Lachot worked it out.

[Keith Moore]

Originally Posted by avare

It is a starting point for listening position determination in terms of percentage of the dimension of the plane the listening position is in.

IT IS NOT A RULE.

Andre

I only used the word "rule" because it was phrased that way a few times in this thread. I'm just looking to get into the loop at to what everyones talkin about.

[Keith Moore]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Keith, read the bottom half of the green sidebar on this page about how Wes Lachot worked it out.

Thanks for this. I've read through this page before but this part didn't grab me prior. I suck at math so it will take me a while to figure this out. What's already confusing me is that the diagram is measuring off the distance from already placed speaker points. I thought this equation was to determine where the speakers should be placed in the room.

[ggegan]

I currently have my 5.1 Blue Sky System One speakers mounted on stands with the tweeters at eye level when I am standing and pointing down at the mix position. That puts the bottom of the cabinets at 5' off the floor. FWIW, that is pretty close to 38% from the ceiling, although that's not why I put them that high.

Even though the manufacturer recommends that the tweeters be at ear level when sitting, I find that the higher position is much better for my situation. Since I mix sound for film and TV, I must constantly keep my eye on the video picture, which in my case is a 40" LCDTV. If the tweeters were mounted at ear level, the LCDTV would be so high that I would have severe neck problems from having to look up contantly, plus my two computer monitors would block the left and right speakers, so I place the LCR speakers above the screen. The surrounds are the same height. I find the imaging and frequency response are excellent with this setup.

If I look up at the speakers, that would be like having them at ear level in terms of orientation, but I notice very little difference whether I am looking up at the speakers or straight ahead at the LCDTV.

Minor down sides are you need a more severe console angle in order to avoid reflections and finding sturdy stands that high is difficult. I use PA stands with omnimounts on adapters, but it seems like a good scenario for soffit mounting.