New Floor Plan

Tweek Audio · 10th January 2009

Hello all,

I'm seriously thinking about redoing my room's layout.
My new plan will make it more comfortable and roomy. I'll be able to face the clients and the sweet spot will be wider.
It should also get me further from my speakers so I can have the equilateral triangle that is recommended and it will allow the speakers to act like real speakers rather than large headphones.
AND it will allow for 5.1 surround. (very important)
Unfortunately I fear it may add more acoustical issues.

Here's the skinny...

It's mostly a mixing room but I also do some acoustic recording and VO stuff

The room is about 13' x 14' with 7' ceilings.
I put in parquet wood flooring and I have maybe 35% of the ceiling treated and plan to do about 100% soon. I still have flutter echos and "robotic" tones that really annoy me and I'd rather have it too dead than any of that junk.

I have 20 2' x 4' x 6" and 7" (3" backing frame plus 3" and 4" rigid fiberglass) bass trap panels that I made. 3 corners are straddled but one corner has the door so...
I also have 6 2'x4'x4" pyramid panels (3 of which straddle the corners lengthwise).

And some 2" wedgies cover about 35% of the ceiling.

I currently have a large desk in the front with all my stuff set up on it.
This includes my EVENT ASP8s which are less than 2' from me and 4' from each other.

I've attached my basic outline of the room. It is to scale but sorry, there are few dimensions written in there.

The gray along the sides are the panels.

My main concern is that the couch will be all the way back. I'll have that whole wall broadband absorptive. I'd move the couch up but I can't afford to lose that much room.

Any advice on this new plan?

amishsixstringe · 10th January 2009

Control room acoustics relate to listening room's acoustics. If you can move the couch forward so that your head is at the 38% of the room's depth from the back wall, you'll escape the modes and nodes that could be built up on that back wall. If you can't move the couch (sounds like it), then I'd just try to make an RFZ and put as many bass traps in the corners and on that back wall behind you as possible. Good luck!

Neil

Tweek Audio · 11th January 2009

Ya, the couch will probably have to stay still.

The speakers are at the 38% mark almost. Does that help at all?

I'll have 7" bass traps all behind me and one above me as well back there. There will be minimal reflections.

I think Ethan Weiner (sp?) said that the 38% rule is a good starting point but compared to logistics, can be secondary. I'm willing to have a slightly harder time mixing translatables, to have the other benefits that this will provide, unless someone knows of a deal breaker that I'm not seeing.

I will have a throw rug on the floor for early reflections and then most of the walls will have broadband absorption and probably some diffusion soon.

I guess I'm mostly wondering if this new plan is a small speed bump that might cost me a couple hundred to fix or is it acoustic suicide?

So far, the further away from my current listening position I get with my test mic, the less flat the results. It's actually pretty bad. But then again, the speakers themselves are not yet in the positions they'd be in when I do this test.

Will doing my full ceiling with 2" wedgies and a throw rug at the reflection points fix that?

I'd just hate to buy a nice couch and set this all up to run a few test and find that I've shot myself in the ear.

Tweek Audio · 11th January 2009

Here is a 1Hz resolution FFT (I think) of 40Hz to 300Hz at 8.5 ' away from my speaker in it's current position, and another at 2' away (my usual listening position)

The 8.5' is about the worst case scenario as I still have some bass trapping I'd like to do and I'll have a couch in the back.

I used an EVENT ASP8 speaker and an SM81 SDC.

Is this terrible?

Will a little more bass trapping and a couch make the 8.5' new layout doable?

Am I throwing away a great response by moving away from the 2' spot?

Is a much flatter response at a very close distance better than a less flat one at a reasonable distance?

Thanks for any input!

Ethan Winer · 12th January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweek Audio

Is this terrible?

No.

Weasel9992 · 12th January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweek Audio

The speakers are at the 38% mark almost. Does that help at all?

No, because your EARS should be there, not the speakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweek Audio

I think Ethan Weiner (sp?) said that the 38% rule is a good starting point but compared to logistics, can be secondary.

I'm not sure what you mean by "logistics". The 38% rule is a starting point for sure, but it's not less important that the amount/type of treatment you put up either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweek Audio

I will have a throw rug on the floor for early reflections and then most of the walls will have broadband absorption and probably some diffusion soon.

So far, the further away from my current listening position I get with my test mic, the less flat the results. It's actually pretty bad. But then again, the speakers themselves are not yet in the positions they'd be in when I do this test.

Will doing my full ceiling with 2" wedgies and a throw rug at the reflection points fix that?

You can't take any stock in any testing done with the mic in a different position than your ears will be in. It's useless data. You said that the frequency response gets worse as you move back in the room...is that all over, in the low end, the mids, high end...I can't tell you whether 2" panels will fix it if I don't know where the issues are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweek Audio

I'd just hate to buy a nice couch and set this all up to run a few test and find that I've shot myself in the ear.

You'll have to get the room set up, get the speakers at least approximately where they'll go, THEN run the tests.

Frank

Tweek Audio · 12th January 2009

Thanks Ethan. A single word from you can ease my fear!
I think once I have a few more bass traps in here (and a fat fluffy couch) I should be OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweek Audio
The speakers are at the 38% mark almost. Does that help at all?

No, because your EARS should be there, not the speakers.

Thank you Frank...

I figured the speakers at 38% didn't matter but I thought I'd ask. JIC.

FRANK: "I'm not sure what you mean by "logistics". The 38% rule is a starting point for sure, but it's not less important that the amount/type of treatment you put up either."

ETHANS ARTICLE: "Please understand that 38% is one theoretical best location to begin measurements, but it may not end up the best place to sit due to other factors - wall properties, speaker location, speaker type, furnishings in the room, and a host of other conditions that can affect frequency response"

AND... "Too often people obsess over minute details that matter only a little, while ignoring ergonomic concerns that matter much more"

Sorry I paraphrased a Little inaccurately.

Either way, I think from what I understand, if I bass trap the hell out the of the place and kill off all early reflections, leave my wood floor bare except for the ER throw rugs, and deaden my entire ceiling with 2" wedgies and hanging clouds at ER points, I think I can overcome the slightly less flat 40 - 300 region and the rest of the spectrum. ( I understand that 2" wedgies will do nothing for the 40 - 300 range)

FRANK: "I'm not sure what you mean by "logistics""

logistics Noun. The detailed planning and organization of a large complex operation.

Or more simply, where my surround speakers, gear, clients, and butt is gonna go.
:0)

FRANK: "You'll have to get the room set up, get the speakers at least approximately where they'll go, THEN run the tests."

Will do, thank you.

10th January 2009	#1
Tweek Audio Gear nut Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Concord NH Posts: 147 Thread Starter	New Floor Plan Hello all, I'm seriously thinking about redoing my room's layout. My new plan will make it more comfortable and roomy. I'll be able to face the clients and the sweet spot will be wider. It should also get me further from my speakers so I can have the equilateral triangle that is recommended and it will allow the speakers to act like real speakers rather than large headphones. AND it will allow for 5.1 surround. (very important) Unfortunately I fear it may add more acoustical issues. Here's the skinny... It's mostly a mixing room but I also do some acoustic recording and VO stuff The room is about 13' x 14' with 7' ceilings. I put in parquet wood flooring and I have maybe 35% of the ceiling treated and plan to do about 100% soon. I still have flutter echos and "robotic" tones that really annoy me and I'd rather have it too dead than any of that junk. I have 20 2' x 4' x 6" and 7" (3" backing frame plus 3" and 4" rigid fiberglass) bass trap panels that I made. 3 corners are straddled but one corner has the door so... I also have 6 2'x4'x4" pyramid panels (3 of which straddle the corners lengthwise). And some 2" wedgies cover about 35% of the ceiling. I currently have a large desk in the front with all my stuff set up on it. This includes my EVENT ASP8s which are less than 2' from me and 4' from each other. I've attached my basic outline of the room. It is to scale but sorry, there are few dimensions written in there. The gray along the sides are the panels. My main concern is that the couch will be all the way back. I'll have that whole wall broadband absorptive. I'd move the couch up but I can't afford to lose that much room. Any advice on this new plan? Attached Thumbnails

10th January 2009	#2
amishsixstringe Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Athens, Ohio Posts: 1,269	Control room acoustics relate to listening room's acoustics. If you can move the couch forward so that your head is at the 38% of the room's depth from the back wall, you'll escape the modes and nodes that could be built up on that back wall. If you can't move the couch (sounds like it), then I'd just try to make an RFZ and put as many bass traps in the corners and on that back wall behind you as possible. Good luck! Neil __________________ My Recording Studio Build Thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/photo...hens-ohio.html Photobucket Page with TONS more studio photos: http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s...ding%20Studio/ www.myspace.com/amishelectricchair www.gcrecords.com

11th January 2009	#4
Tweek Audio Gear nut Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Concord NH Posts: 147 Thread Starter	Here is a 1Hz resolution FFT (I think) of 40Hz to 300Hz at 8.5 ' away from my speaker in it's current position, and another at 2' away (my usual listening position) The 8.5' is about the worst case scenario as I still have some bass trapping I'd like to do and I'll have a couch in the back. I used an EVENT ASP8 speaker and an SM81 SDC. Is this terrible? Will a little more bass trapping and a couch make the 8.5' new layout doable? Am I throwing away a great response by moving away from the 2' spot? Is a much flatter response at a very close distance better than a less flat one at a reasonable distance? Thanks for any input! Attached Thumbnails

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12th January 2009	#7
Tweek Audio Gear nut Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Concord NH Posts: 147 Thread Starter	Thanks Ethan. A single word from you can ease my fear! I think once I have a few more bass traps in here (and a fat fluffy couch) I should be OK. Quote: Originally Posted by Tweek Audio The speakers are at the 38% mark almost. Does that help at all? No, because your EARS should be there, not the speakers. Thank you Frank... I figured the speakers at 38% didn't matter but I thought I'd ask. JIC. FRANK: "I'm not sure what you mean by "logistics". The 38% rule is a starting point for sure, but it's not less important that the amount/type of treatment you put up either." ETHANS ARTICLE: "Please understand that 38% is one theoretical best location to begin measurements, but it may not end up the best place to sit due to other factors - wall properties, speaker location, speaker type, furnishings in the room, and a host of other conditions that can affect frequency response" AND... "Too often people obsess over minute details that matter only a little, while ignoring ergonomic concerns that matter much more" Sorry I paraphrased a Little inaccurately. Either way, I think from what I understand, if I bass trap the hell out the of the place and kill off all early reflections, leave my wood floor bare except for the ER throw rugs, and deaden my entire ceiling with 2" wedgies and hanging clouds at ER points, I think I can overcome the slightly less flat 40 - 300 region and the rest of the spectrum. ( I understand that 2" wedgies will do nothing for the 40 - 300 range) FRANK: "I'm not sure what you mean by "logistics"" logistics Noun. The detailed planning and organization of a large complex operation. Or more simply, where my surround speakers, gear, clients, and butt is gonna go. :0) FRANK: "You'll have to get the room set up, get the speakers at least approximately where they'll go, THEN run the tests." Will do, thank you.