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#121
17th June 2009
Old 17th June 2009
  #121
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Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
Hello, sir.

Here's my latest, tell me what you think. I did the ray tracing as well as I could, I think I get what you're saying about only the extremes are necessary. You can see my dotted line representing the location of the glass at ear level, just to the left of the window on the left side of the CR. I couldn't angle it much due to wall thickness (lack of) but I guess I gained a little something. I put a question for you in the pic, if you'd be so kind to school me! It would be nice to have the window extend up a little further, to have better line of sight. I realize that will shoot reflections at mix pos, but is it something I could deal with if I'm producing someone I need to see, or will it just make a mess of things? I would definitely have a custom panel to fit over that portion of the window while mixing, mirrored by a panel on the other side of the room. I have tossed the idea around of having several small panels each maybe 1 ft wide, to add as needed to have an expandable RFZ. I could change between producing, critical tracking, mixing, and client presentation. I'd appreciate any thoughts you'd like to share.
Okay, that looks better from a reflection standpoint.

Personally, I would stop the window properly for the RFZ, because I have spent a lot of time in rooms with setups as you suggest, and ultimately it's such a hassle nobody ever bothers to move the treatments around - they just get used to the smeared sound and live with it. I do not believe in windows that trash the RFZ, unless there is absolutely no other way to see out. I think you could probably live with the truncated glass, although I haven't really seen the bigger picture, with the two rooms together. If you could post that, it would be helpful.

-Wes
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#122
17th June 2009
Old 17th June 2009
  #122
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As is sometimes the case, a fix for one thing is a break for another. Everything is interconnected. Those are pretty aggressive angles, and the front of the room is getting pretty tight now. The monitors are getting dangerously close to the walls. You also seem to have lost that nice wedge-shaped trapping in each front corner as compared to the last plan.

Also, I'm still with Wes on the window. I'd prefer to leave it smaller, and you can always lean back to gain a greater viewing angle. However, it's hard to judge without seeing the live room connected.
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#123
17th June 2009
Old 17th June 2009
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Sure! Here's the whole design, the CR is the only room I've really fleshed out so far.

Jay, I didn't show any acoustic treatment in that last post, but I still plan on having bass trapping in the front corners. I will have quite a few traps: a large one in the ceiling/wall corner in the front of the room, going all the way across the room; all four wall/wall corners; plus a cloud hanging at an angle (2ft from the ceiling at low point) that may extend over most of the room. That's just my ideas for now. Meanwhile, the front wall of the room will be absorptive at 1st reflection points.
14 ft or so is really the only width I have to work with, and that is why I was so aggressive with the angle this time. Suggestions on how to deal with that?

Thanks a lot guys

P.S. I marked the distance of the Rt speaker to the Rt wall (just above it in the pic) to make it easier to judge how far away it is.
Attached Thumbnails
Angles of Control Room walls-cr-1-1.4-1.8-entire-studio.jpg  
#124
17th June 2009
Old 17th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
Jay, I didn't show any acoustic treatment in that last post, but I still plan on having bass trapping in the front corners
The reason I was concentrating on the front trapping was just because if the lines you show are not actually true room boundaries, but front surface of trapping, then the speakers may actually not be as close to the boundaries as they look, and the trapping can also help to minimize any effect. However, from the look of it, it does seem as if the speakers are very close to both front and side walls, and if you plan to add traps on top of those, they'd be practically touching the speakers. Not knowing all the details, I'm just mentioning things to consider. Keeping free-standing speakers a reasonable distance from boundaries is important.
#125
18th June 2009
Old 18th June 2009
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Jay makes a good point - the room is getting small in front, and the speakers are getting squeezed into the corners. Narrow control rooms are really tough for creating an RFZ, and side windows make it even tougher. The glass pretty much demands a decent angle, whereas if it's drywall, you can just treat the walls instead of angling them.

This sqeezing of the speakers into the front corners taken to it's logical extreme will back you right into a soffit situation. That's what I do, but that's another story altogether.

Can you dimension your overall floor plan more completely? I'm trying to see exactly what your overall dimensions are.

You will need to reserve some healthy amount of space up front for bass traps. It is possible to use relatively thin tuned traps up there, but that's the sort of thing you may not want to try at home. By all means try to avoid rear ported speakers in a situation like this, or you will get a ton of out of phase low frequencies coming back at you.

-Wes
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#126
18th June 2009
Old 18th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrigo View Post
The reason I was concentrating on the front trapping was just because if the lines you show are not actually true room boundaries, but front surface of trapping, then the speakers may actually not be as close to the boundaries as they look, and the trapping can also help to minimize any effect. However, from the look of it, it does seem as if the speakers are very close to both front and side walls, and if you plan to add traps on top of those, they'd be practically touching the speakers. Not knowing all the details, I'm just mentioning things to consider. Keeping free-standing speakers a reasonable distance from boundaries is important.
How far should I shoot for having them out from the walls? I read in the EBU Subjective Assessment of Audio Quality that the recommendation is 1m or 3.28ft, but that is unattainable I'm afraid for a room the size of mine.

Also, is it a bad thing for a fabric covered absorbent bass-trap to be almost touching the back of the speakers? My speakers are powered (Mackie HR824) and need good ventilation, but, that provided for, would it cause any acoustic problems to be there? Here is a pic of where I might put it. In the pick, note the point where my RFZ angles were measured from. The speakers are just there for looks- didn't know if that was misleading. Anyway, let me know what you think.
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Angles of Control Room walls-cr-1-1.4-1.8-close-up-front-wall-.jpg  
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#127
18th June 2009
Old 18th June 2009
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Wes,
Are the Mackies considered rear ported speakers? They do not have an actual port, rather a passive radiator that moves sympathetically to the real speaker. Don't know much about speaker design, but I assume this acts as the port.

I had considered flush mount, and would love to do it. But that would take a lot more research time and I would not be able to use my current monitors. (I asked Mackie and they said nope.) However, my monitors do have an "acoustic switch" for being placed at 1/2 space and 1/4 space close to walls. Doesn't seem like the most technical solution to me, but would it work in this situation?

Here is a more detailed dimension of the studio. The outer edges represent the total amount of empty space I have right now, the space is square.

-Nathan
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Angles of Control Room walls-cr-1-1.4-1.8-entire-studio.jpg  
#128
18th June 2009
Old 18th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
Wes,
Are the Mackies considered rear ported speakers? They do not have an actual port, rather a passive radiator that moves sympathetically to the real speaker. Don't know much about speaker design, but I assume this acts as the port.

I had considered flush mount, and would love to do it. But that would take a lot more research time and I would not be able to use my current monitors. (I asked Mackie and they said nope.) However, my monitors do have an "acoustic switch" for being placed at 1/2 space and 1/4 space close to walls. Doesn't seem like the most technical solution to me, but would it work in this situation?

Here is a more detailed dimension of the studio. The outer edges represent the total amount of empty space I have right now, the space is square.

-Nathan
Nathan,

Yes, the Mackies are sending a lot of low frequency information out from the rear of the cabinet, which is why I don't like them for bass. On the other hand, what I do like about them is the multi-position roll-off switches, which is to say I like them for their lack of bass. In other words, they can be decent (though not my favorite) for nearfields, but that's really about it, which is reasonable given their price point and intended market. But then again, what small speakers can you trust for bass, when it comes right down to it? But I do realise that in a budget studio you have to make compromises, and I can understand your not wanting to do soffits.

Anyhow, the main principle I wanted to point out is that when you're not doing soffits, I think it's wise to use front-ported rather than rear-ported speakers.

By the way, there's no reason that you can't have fiberglass bass traps right up next to your speakers.

--Wes
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#129
19th June 2009
Old 19th June 2009
  #129
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This is my new diagram with more room behind the speakers and less of an angle in the wall. I think I like this better, but shoot me straight. I was able to keep the RFZ and window size about the same as before, and the room came out a bit less wide in the rear, giving me more room in the studio proper.

Note: I have RFZ drawn for two window sizes. 5 ft window => 6 ft RFZ, 5'6" window => 4 ft RFZ

I could have either or do the adjustable panel thing. (If the panel becomes an issue I can always permanently install it. It will sit inside the window sill, hopefully unseen.)

I just realized I did not include the angles in the dimensions. They are (approx) 162 (in the mid of room) and 198 (toward the front)

What do you think?
Attached Thumbnails
Angles of Control Room walls-cr-1-1.4-1.8-less-angle-more-air-behind-speakers.jpg  
#130
19th June 2009
Old 19th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
This is my new diagram with more room behind the speakers and less of an angle in the wall. I think I like this better, but shoot me straight. I was able to keep the RFZ and window size about the same as before, and the room came out a bit less wide in the rear, giving me more room in the studio proper.

Note: I have RFZ drawn for two window sizes. 5 ft window => 6 ft RFZ, 5'6" window => 4 ft RFZ

I could have either or do the adjustable panel thing. (If the panel becomes an issue I can always permanently install it. It will sit inside the window sill, hopefully unseen.)

I just realized I did not include the angles in the dimensions. They are (approx) 162 (in the mid of room) and 198 (toward the front)

What do you think?
Now I think you've hit on the best solution. I feel it's best by a mile to go with the smaller window/ larger RFZ. Other than that you're good to go. Of course you need some nice fat bass traps behind the speakers. I'd make the trap as deep as possible on the front wall, then angle the traps at 30 degrees behind the speakers.

--Wes
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#131
19th June 2009
Old 19th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
Now I think you've hit on the best solution. I feel it's best by a mile to go with the smaller window/ larger RFZ. Other than that you're good to go. Of course you need some nice fat bass traps behind the speakers. I'd make the trap as deep as possible on the front wall, then angle the traps at 30 degrees behind the speakers.

--Wes
Thank you so much Wes. I'm at my day job right now, but I will post again ASAP.

Thank you.
Nathan Webb
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#132
22nd June 2009
Old 22nd June 2009
  #132
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Okay,
After coming to a conclusion on the previous design, I noticed my tracking area was getting small. Not only that, but the average width was similar to the average height. So, I decided to re-work things.

This time I based the tracking room on 1:1.26:1.59 and the CR on 1:1.25:1.75. After much tweaking, I finally got it to fit. Please scrutinize it and fill me in on your thoughts.

The problem I did wind up with is how to get into the studio from the CR. In order to make the space work with the ratio, I had to put the lower wall there, making it kind of hard to find a place for the door. I just gave it a sound lock, but I'd rather not do that so I'd like to hear your suggestions. The bathroom got squashed by the sound lock, it's a waste of space, and I've heard they cut down on TL. Can you think of another way?

Thanks again,
Nathan
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#133
22nd June 2009
Old 22nd June 2009
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Okay, so you need a bathroom in the lower left corner. You are not going to be able to squeeze the bathroom in there in any kind of way that does justice to human scale, and still get a reasonably sized door in there. Not with the current configuration, anyway. Do you really need that booth in the top right? If you try to squeeze too many rooms into a small space, the whole thing will suffer. You may want to zoom out and think about what's really important, in terms of space.

If you rearrange your space allocations, you may be able to get it all to fit.

-Wes
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#134
22nd June 2009
Old 22nd June 2009
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Wes,
Aside from the bathroom issue, how does my new CR look to you? Did I lose quality by the changes I made? Is the space around the speakers enough? Any red flags?
#135
22nd June 2009
Old 22nd June 2009
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Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
Wes,
Aside from the bathroom issue, how does my new CR look to you? Did I lose quality by the changes I made? Is the space around the speakers enough? Any red flags?
Making the control room narrower will have negative repercussions acoustically, no doubt about it. But then again, I don't know what you're trying to do with your studio room - how many people you are trying to accomodate, etc. It may be a tradeoff you just have to make.

-Wes
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#136
22nd June 2009
Old 22nd June 2009
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Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
Making the control room narrower will have negative repercussions acoustically, no doubt about it. But then again, I don't know what you're trying to do with your studio room - how many people you are trying to accomodate, etc. It may be a tradeoff you just have to make.

-Wes
I'd like to be able to fit a drummer and two other musicians if I could. I would have a bass DI and an Elect Gtr. with the amp in the booth. That's the most I would track in that room at one time. I just don't want it to be uncomfortable, and I don't want to go under 1500 cuft. My average ceiling height is about 9' 2", but the majority of it is 10'.

I realize the latest CR design is not as good as the previous one, but I didn't want the musicians to be cramped. I still have a 6ft RFZ, a 16ft depth, and more or less 2ft of space btwn the walls and speakers. Where are my weakest points?
#137
22nd June 2009
Old 22nd June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
I'd like to be able to fit a drummer and two other musicians if I could. I would have a bass DI and an Elect Gtr. with the amp in the booth. That's the most I would track in that room at one time. I just don't want it to be uncomfortable, and I don't want to go under 1500 cuft. My average ceiling height is about 9' 2", but the majority of it is 10'.

I realize the latest CR design is not as good as the previous one, but I didn't want the musicians to be cramped. I still have a 6ft RFZ, a 16ft depth, and more or less 2ft of space btwn the walls and speakers. Where are my weakest points?
The weakest point is the 22" that you lost in the front of the CR. It's getting pretty narrow (8'-6") for a CR front end, given the angles etc. It will not sound as good as the 10'-4" front end.

So what's the deal with the bath? I always try to solve the issues of egress and layout well before I tweak the final room dimensions. How do you plan to get in and out of the CR without going through the bath? And have you researched minimum bath dimensions? Figuring this stuff out may inform your CR dimension parameters.

-Wes
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#138
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
The weakest point is the 22" that you lost in the front of the CR. It's getting pretty narrow (8'-6") for a CR front end, given the angles etc. It will not sound as good as the 10'-4" front end.

So what's the deal with the bath? I always try to solve the issues of egress and layout well before I tweak the final room dimensions. How do you plan to get in and out of the CR without going through the bath? And have you researched minimum bath dimensions? Figuring this stuff out may inform your CR dimension parameters.

-Wes
Can you recommend a minimum width for the front end of my CR that I should shoot for when I go to redesign? (I'm sure it is contingent on the angles and size etc. of the room, but is there a general rule or ratio to go by to determine the minimum width?)
#139
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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Originally Posted by naethoven View Post
Can you recommend a minimum width for the front end of my CR that I should shoot for when I go to redesign? (I'm sure it is contingent on the angles and size etc. of the room, but is there a general rule or ratio to go by to determine the minimum width?)
No, I'm just going by my gut and experience. Bigger is better. You can't expect to take a room that is already narrow in the front to begin with (10 1/3 ft.) and cut it by over 15% to 8 1/2 ft. and not pay some audible consequences. Speakers don't like tight spaces.

I'm still not clear that you've solved your egress/ bath problem. As I said, a good design solution for your situation would take those things into account before proceeding further. None of it matters if you can't get in and out of the room properly. Why don't you work that part out and post it? I really think that working with the larger picture may help you when you zoom back in to clear up some of the details. It usually does for me.

--Wes
#140
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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Did a quick scretch on graph paper to get you out of the rough and back on the fairway. PM me your address and I'll mail it to you if needed. Graph paper, pencil, eraser, straight edge, and 15 min. got you a workable layout with roughly the same size control room as your last sketch plus a bath, HVAC-computers space, ISO, and Live rooms. Grab some graph paper, pencil, and straight edge and I can give you the basic room shapes with this post. Since you have a 25' x 25' space I just assumed this was an outside dimension, if it is an inside dimension, great you will have an extra foot in each direction to play with. Figuring an outside wall thickness of 6 inches on all four sides this leaves a 24' x 24' interior space so make a box on the graph paper 24 squares high by 24 squares wide. Label each side (north/east/west/south), this is just so I can tell you where to put your walls. Once you have it down on paper remember you can flip/mirror/rotate the room arrangement so don't worry, this is just so you have the basic room sizes and relationships.

Here we go, step one, from the northwest corner of your graph paper 24 square by 24 square box, go east 15 squares and make a dot. From the northwest corner again, go south 17 squares and make a dot. From the northwest corner again, go east 10 squares and then go south 16 squares and make a dot, now draw lines between this dot and the first two dots. This is your Live room.

Step two: from the southwest corner of your 24 by 24 square box, go north 6 squares and make a dot. From the southwest corner again go east 10 squares and make a dot. From the southwest corner again go north 7 squares and then go east 9 squares and make a dot, now draw lines between this dot and the first two dots. This is your Iso room.

At this point you will have the trapaziod interiors of both your Live and Iso rooms with a 1 foot wall between them.

Step three: from the southeast corner of your 24 square by 24 square box, go west 13 squares and make a dot. From that dot go north 8 squares and make a dot. draw a line between those two dots, that is your wall between the Iso and Control rooms. From the southeast corner again go north 8 squares and make a dot. Go another 8 squares north and go west 2 1/2 squares and make a dot, draw a line between those two dots. From the southeast corner again, go north 16 squares and then west 10 1/2 squares and make a dot, draw lines between this dot and the ends of the prior two lines. You now have the shape of your Control room (per rough dimensions) of your last posted drawing with a 1 foot wall between the Live and Control rooms. The big change here is that you have a one segment splay Control room wall instead of your drawn 2 segement.

You can see by now that the remaining space in the northeast corner is for your HVAC and Bathroom (I know you drew it in the southwest corner, just flip/rotate what I've draw and it can be there). Put a 6 inch wall (1/2 square thickness) between the Live room/Bath and then the Control room/Bath.

Step four: From the northeast corner of your 24 by 24 square box go west 4 squares and make a dot. From that dot go south 4 squares and make a dot, draw a line between the dots. From the northeast corner again go west 4 1/2 squares and make a dot. From that dot go south 4 squares and make a dot, draw a line between the dots. You now have a 1/2 square (6") wall between the HVAC-computers room in the northeast corner and the Bathroom just to the west of it. Extend this wall straight south to the Control room with a 3' louvered door swinging into the bathroom and against the south wall. You can alternately use a 3' bifold louvered door hinged on the south. The HVAC needs a 3 foot door opening to get equipment in/out and needs room air for safety, the computers throw off heat too, hence a louvered door. You will put the toilet on the north wall of the Bathroom and the sink in the southwest corner of Bathroom (allowing for the HVAC door to fully swing open). You will put a 3 ' solid door in the west wall of the bathroom and have that swing into the northeast corner of the Live room with probably the hinged side at least 1 1/2 feet from the north wall. This will allow a clear path to the HVAC room and will leave space for bass trapping material in the northeast corner of the Live room.

That's it, you will still need to figure windows and doors between the Control/Live/Iso rooms plus a door to the outside somewhere. Don't know if you called Dave Dalton but his layout is much different from this one, his sacrifices Control room depth for width but has superior flow and sight lines to this plan. This should put you in the ballpark of your latest Control room drawing. You could still do the 2 segment splay as before with this plan but that will make the Live room too narrow and less usable.
#141
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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Just read the above post concerning the narrow end of the control room. With the above plan I just detailed, you can make the north wall of the Control room 1 foot longer (just add 1/2 square (6") to each end of the line) but it narrows the splay a bit more. Additionally you can move the entire east wall of the Iso room 1/2 square (6") further east for a little more volume in that room.
#142
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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One other great trick to do during the planing stage since you already have the space but it's not built out yet is to put down masking tape on the floor where the walls and fixtures are in your plan. This will give you a 3d idea of the space since most people can't get that from paper 2D plans. Once you are in the fine tuning stages then buy a roll of brown wrapping/butcher paper and tape up walls. you can figure the best locations for windows/doors/sightlines with that cheap method. At least you won't have any giant surprises after you start building by taking that extra step.
#143
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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After spending a few more minutes looking at the plan you can even make the control room north wall 10' long and it will work with my plan since you will be basstraping the north corners. So the control room dimensions would be a 10' long north wall, a 13' long south wall, 16' overall length (from north to south walls), and the splay point is the halfway mark on the east and west walls at 8' just like you had it on your drawing. It's a narrow splay angle (closer to a rectangle) but maximizes the width at the speakers.
#144
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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Spent an hour refining the plan, I'll see if I can scan it and post. Got the control room more front end width, more volume,symetrical NON-parallel walls, by lengthening the splay length from 8' to 11' and spining the room clockwise a bit so the east splay is against the outside wall. I adjusted the other rooms accordingly. Looks like rough average sizes are 12 x 16 for Control, 7 x 9 for Iso, 12 x 16 for Live, 4 1/2 x 7 1/2 for HVAC, and a functioning Bath layout/size. Added best places/sizes/swings for interior doors. Figuring the windows/sightlines and exterior door (best is into Live room) is up to you. Didn't read all the posts as I chimed in late, given the dimensions you listed I'm assuming you are converting a two car garage? Since this is probably a common size/garage conversion for others to follow suit that's why I put the time in it. Hopefully you can refine it as I'm sure you will share the details (I just did a rough layout, 6" dimension snap).
#145
23rd June 2009
Old 23rd June 2009
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Not going to be a popular opinion I'm sure, but I'd do a one room space with a few amp isos and a powder room and call it a day. The control room looks cramped, and so does the live room. Why sacrifice acoustics for isolation.
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#146
24th June 2009
Old 24th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Spent an hour refining the plan, I'll see if I can scan it and post. Got the control room more front end width, more volume,symetrical NON-parallel walls, by lengthening the splay length from 8' to 11' and spining the room clockwise a bit so the east splay is against the outside wall. I adjusted the other rooms accordingly. Looks like rough average sizes are 12 x 16 for Control, 7 x 9 for Iso, 12 x 16 for Live, 4 1/2 x 7 1/2 for HVAC, and a functioning Bath layout/size. Added best places/sizes/swings for interior doors. Figuring the windows/sightlines and exterior door (best is into Live room) is up to you. Didn't read all the posts as I chimed in late, given the dimensions you listed I'm assuming you are converting a two car garage? Since this is probably a common size/garage conversion for others to follow suit that's why I put the time in it. Hopefully you can refine it as I'm sure you will share the details (I just did a rough layout, 6" dimension snap).
Dude, you rock. I just wanted to say thanks for giving time and effort. You're mad cool.

I am reconfiguring things on my end as well. I'll post something soon.
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24th June 2009
Old 24th June 2009
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Here is a scan of the revised plan for a guide
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Angles of Control Room walls-garage.jpg  
#148
24th June 2009
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"Not going to be a popular opinion I'm sure, but I'd do a one room space with a few amp isos and a powder room and call it a day. The control room looks cramped, and so does the live room. Why sacrifice acoustics for isolation"Not a bad option and surely not unpopular, but if you are willing to limit how many people are in the spaces at a given time a split up 24' x 24' space (converted 2 car garage) will work for the home guys. See the Dave Dalton links above (The Dman on slutz) for a different take than what I drew for this thread. His space works for bands, and has enough space/volume to get a decent drum sound (have a mindset that the Live room is one big drum iso). Treatment and experimentation is the key to these type of rooms though.
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24th June 2009
Old 24th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Here is a scan of the revised plan for a guide
Hey, that actually looks really cool. I'm shooting for having the bath accessible from the CR so we don't have to stop tracking for someone to use it. So maybe we could swap those spaces. Also, have you given any consideration to a window btwn the CR and Live, and how to create RFZ and still be able to use the window? Maybe I could put a sliding glass door btwn the Live and CR where the door is in your pic, and treat from there forward for RFZ. By the way, the interior dimensions to work within are not quite 24'. They are exactly 280" x 280", or 23'4" square. And my walls will be about 10" thick (I think you have them at 6"), but that shouldn't change things too much.

Thank you
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24th June 2009
Old 24th June 2009
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Like I said, just did the plan to get you back on course and figured there would be others converting 2 car garages that might need a starting point. The drawing was basically a 6" snap, 6" wall just to get the spaces working with each other while minimizing standing waves between parallel walls. Each person using it will have to do their own adjustments/refinements. From a practical point if you change HVAC and Bath access you need to remember you need so much room to get the HVAC equipment in to install and have room to service it, hence the two 36" wide doors in line. If using gas or propane heating a certain amount of room air is needed for combusion and saftey (louvered door on the HVAC).As far as windows, the smaller the better, they will probably be a weak link acoustically. Use LAMINATED GLASS, two basic types are available. Use the stuff that has the thicker plastic layer between the sheets of glass for better sound attenuation. You will spend a fortune for a sliding door with laminated glass, and unless the bottom track is recessed into the floor or a curb is built they are poor acoutically (don't seal up great), just use the paper and tape trick I detailed above to pick the best places for glass and minimize as much as possible while keeping the sightlines good and use solid core or sandwich doors. You may need to put glass in the control room and iso doors for live room sightlines. Figure anyone in the iso will be standing or on a tall stool for glass positioning. If anyone needs to hit the bathroom, take a break, you will probably be getting paid by the hour anyways. I put the bath door in a "dead space" corner of the live room, that corner will probably be trapped heavily and chances are a muso would not be setting up there regardless. You could swap the Bath/HVAC and Iso spaces but I see two downsides to it 1) You would kill most of the Iso's sightline to the whole Live room 2) Most guys are going to be using noisy computers and putting them close to where they are needed in the HVAC room as drawn is a perfect place for them. If you need the Bath in the southwest corner just rotate or mirror flip the plan. Maximize the room layouts for volume and workflow. If you had more workable square footage then you could get away with a bigger "wish" list but a 24'x 24' divided space WILL have compromises. Having the bath off the control room should be near the bottom of a "needed" list.
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