Soundproofing around door frames

Xenon · 7th September 2008

Hoping for some quick ideas - I've got about 72 hours to fill in some narrow spaces around three door frames for my project studio under construction, before Procore doors are hung and the frame-to-wall covered with trim.

I'm in Japan, and a smaller city. This means no byutl caulk, only silicone. I have some rock wool insulation, some 3/8" hard rubber sheets, and some "sound sheet" a not-cheap rubberized and fairly weighty-per-square area acoustic sheeting. Here are two pics of both sides of the double wall between the live and control room (both an inner and outer door are being mounted):

http://i38.tinypic.com/kp7xg.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/r0wp74.jpg

You can see the soundsheet, the grey wall covering. there's also a single door frame from the iso booth to the hallway (not seen). I was thinking of a combo of rock wool, rubber, soundsheet and caulk, whatever can fit in the various spaces, cause thats what I have on hand. As the goal is soundproofing, I realize that mass is good, but the spaces are long slivered gaps of between 1/4" (6mm) and as much as 1+" (maybe 3cm).

There are some big home centers around. I realize that without decent soundproofing around the frames the effectiveness of the doors will be reduced.

Any suggestions for a reasonable solution?

PS (edit) The pics are old, walls are now finished with a double layer of sheet rock with soundsheet sandwich (and wallpaper). Door frame sills have 3/8" rubber for isolation from the floor.

Tomer1 · 7th September 2008

BBC R&D suggested using magnetic seals ,same as in refrigirators.
I'm looking into this solution for my own door since commericaly available solutions are extremly over priced.

You may also want to look into retractable foam insulation device for the bottom join of the door.

http://upload.allbiz.co.il/Pictures/...tribo_2000.jpg

nharmonic · 7th September 2008

I utilized ROD GERVAIS' book, Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros, to keep my door frames airtight. I built my door frames and door from scratch so I don't know if this method will translate to your prehung door, but here ya go:

This method requires an unconventional application of 'backer rods' between the door frame and walls. It is like a nerf noodle (swimming pool toy kids hit each other with) but comes in various smaller diameters (I used 3/4" which can be compressed to about 1/4"). 'Backer rods' are used in pool construction (water tight and air tight means good for sound) and for building log cabins (placed in between logs to seal the gap).

What I did:
1.) I bought predetermined length (left jamb 80" x2= 160"; top jamb 38" x2=76"; right jamb 80" x2=160"; total 160" + 76" + 160" = 396") of 'backer rod' from a pool construction company
2.) cut two rods for each jamb (that's why length's above are x2!!)
3.) temporarily attached each rod with liquid nails about 1/2" from edge
4.) between the two rods I stapled insulation (thin; 3/4" thick)
5.) when you attach door frame (preferably with long screws) it will COMPRESS 'backer rod' and insulation. ***THERE SHOULD BE NO GAPS BETWEEN DOOR FRAME AND WALL CONSTRUCTION IF YOU CUT AND ATTACHED RODS FROM FLOOR TO TOP JAMB, TOP JAMB (left) TO TOP JAMB (right), TOP JAMB TO FLOOR
6.) fill in channel that is created with acoustical caulk
7.) attach door molding to cover channel

Xenon · 8th September 2008

Thanks for your replies -
Sorry Tomer1, maybe I wasn't clear, I have door seals and the sill taken care of.

The backer rods, great idea, if the frame wasn't already installed and I wasn't in Japan (backer rods not available) with a deadline (now extended to three days from now).

To restate: frames are installed and have gaps between the outsides of the 2 vertical and 1 top (horizontal) frame member and each wall surface. The frames are leveled and aren't going to be removed. I can buy plaster, cement, fill with bondo, hard rubber sheeting, stuff with insulation, silicone caulk, combinations of whatever, etc.. It's about filling in cracks/gaps...

How bout "plaster-rock wool-air gap-rock wool-plaster"
this would be similar to my existing wall, which is:
gypsum-soundsheet-gypsum-rock wool-air gap-rock wool-gypsum-soundsheet-gypsum.

I'm trying to minimally approximate the existing soundproofing of the surrounding wall...

Easiest would be to fill with something mushy that solidified. Is there anything sonically disastrous with say rock wool in the middle, and a plaster/cement compound on either side? I guess 'least sonically conductive goop' or goop+materials sandwich would be nice.

I have the Gervais book, built my double walls similarly. I'm building a house at the same time and am not a carpenter, and am under financial and time constraints. Things are as they are.

Glue · 9th September 2008

I've just done the exact same thing as you described. Except i had to soundproof the gaps between my studio wall and window frames, anyway, the same rules apply.
I basically tried to make it as airtight as possible ("where air goes, sound goes"). I first had the idea of closing off the gaps and then filling them with sand. Seemed like a neat idea in theory at least. The only problem is you never know if the gaps are really full and once the sand has settled you could end up with a huge air gap.
So, i ended up using a lot of different materials (as the transition into materials of different densities also tend to slow down sound). I closed up one side of the gap with a broad strip of acoustic heavy rubber type sheeting (very much like the stuff you've been using). Glued it, caulked the edges and added a wooden frame on top, screwed that into the wall to firmly seal of the gap.
From the other side i sprayed a little layer of poly-urethane foam into the gap (i know, it has no mass/density and it's not the best material to use for soundproofing, but it does expand and creeps into every little corner. Then i stuffed the gap with rockwool/glasswool. Then i stuffed little strips of the denser acoustic foam stuff (not like auralex, we call it isofix or isolaphone, don't know any other name for it). Then i closed the gap on the other side in the same manner, glueing a strip of acoustic sheeting and adding a wooden frame on top. Finish by caulking every possible edge/gap.

I haven't finished all this yet but so far, it does seem to stop quite a bit. It's probably not as effective as filling the gaps with cement but it sure is way more practical. You can of course add more layers, maybe extra acoustic rubber sheet in between (if you can fit that in of course).

Good luck with it my man, i'm off getting my hands stuck between my wall and doorframe :-)

7th September 2008	#1
Xenon Gear nut Joined: Jul 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 77 Thread Starter	Soundproofing around door frames Hoping for some quick ideas - I've got about 72 hours to fill in some narrow spaces around three door frames for my project studio under construction, before Procore doors are hung and the frame-to-wall covered with trim. I'm in Japan, and a smaller city. This means no byutl caulk, only silicone. I have some rock wool insulation, some 3/8" hard rubber sheets, and some "sound sheet" a not-cheap rubberized and fairly weighty-per-square area acoustic sheeting. Here are two pics of both sides of the double wall between the live and control room (both an inner and outer door are being mounted): http://i38.tinypic.com/kp7xg.jpg http://i38.tinypic.com/r0wp74.jpg You can see the soundsheet, the grey wall covering. there's also a single door frame from the iso booth to the hallway (not seen). I was thinking of a combo of rock wool, rubber, soundsheet and caulk, whatever can fit in the various spaces, cause thats what I have on hand. As the goal is soundproofing, I realize that mass is good, but the spaces are long slivered gaps of between 1/4" (6mm) and as much as 1+" (maybe 3cm). There are some big home centers around. I realize that without decent soundproofing around the frames the effectiveness of the doors will be reduced. Any suggestions for a reasonable solution? PS (edit) The pics are old, walls are now finished with a double layer of sheet rock with soundsheet sandwich (and wallpaper). Door frame sills have 3/8" rubber for isolation from the floor.

7th September 2008	#2
Tomer1 Lives for gear Joined: May 2006 Location: Haifa,Israel Posts: 1,282	BBC R&D suggested using magnetic seals ,same as in refrigirators. I'm looking into this solution for my own door since commericaly available solutions are extremly over priced. You may also want to look into retractable foam insulation device for the bottom join of the door. http://upload.allbiz.co.il/Pictures/...tribo_2000.jpg __________________ http://www.myspace.com/tomervalve

7th September 2008	#3
nharmonic Gear nut Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 122	I utilized ROD GERVAIS' book, Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros, to keep my door frames airtight. I built my door frames and door from scratch so I don't know if this method will translate to your prehung door, but here ya go: This method requires an unconventional application of 'backer rods' between the door frame and walls. It is like a nerf noodle (swimming pool toy kids hit each other with) but comes in various smaller diameters (I used 3/4" which can be compressed to about 1/4"). 'Backer rods' are used in pool construction (water tight and air tight means good for sound) and for building log cabins (placed in between logs to seal the gap). What I did: 1.) I bought predetermined length (left jamb 80" x2= 160"; top jamb 38" x2=76"; right jamb 80" x2=160"; total 160" + 76" + 160" = 396") of 'backer rod' from a pool construction company 2.) cut two rods for each jamb (that's why length's above are x2!!) 3.) temporarily attached each rod with liquid nails about 1/2" from edge 4.) between the two rods I stapled insulation (thin; 3/4" thick) 5.) when you attach door frame (preferably with long screws) it will COMPRESS 'backer rod' and insulation. ***THERE SHOULD BE NO GAPS BETWEEN DOOR FRAME AND WALL CONSTRUCTION IF YOU CUT AND ATTACHED RODS FROM FLOOR TO TOP JAMB, TOP JAMB (left) TO TOP JAMB (right), TOP JAMB TO FLOOR 6.) fill in channel that is created with acoustical caulk 7.) attach door molding to cover channel __________________ Respect and God Bless, Daniel nHarmonic

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8th September 2008	#4
Xenon Gear nut Joined: Jul 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 77 Thread Starter	Thanks for your replies - Sorry Tomer1, maybe I wasn't clear, I have door seals and the sill taken care of. The backer rods, great idea, if the frame wasn't already installed and I wasn't in Japan (backer rods not available) with a deadline (now extended to three days from now). To restate: frames are installed and have gaps between the outsides of the 2 vertical and 1 top (horizontal) frame member and each wall surface. The frames are leveled and aren't going to be removed. I can buy plaster, cement, fill with bondo, hard rubber sheeting, stuff with insulation, silicone caulk, combinations of whatever, etc.. It's about filling in cracks/gaps... How bout "plaster-rock wool-air gap-rock wool-plaster" this would be similar to my existing wall, which is: gypsum-soundsheet-gypsum-rock wool-air gap-rock wool-gypsum-soundsheet-gypsum. I'm trying to minimally approximate the existing soundproofing of the surrounding wall... Easiest would be to fill with something mushy that solidified. Is there anything sonically disastrous with say rock wool in the middle, and a plaster/cement compound on either side? I guess 'least sonically conductive goop' or goop+materials sandwich would be nice. I have the Gervais book, built my double walls similarly. I'm building a house at the same time and am not a carpenter, and am under financial and time constraints. Things are as they are.

9th September 2008	#5
Glue Gear interested Joined: May 2008 Location: Belgium Posts: 22	I've just done the exact same thing as you described. Except i had to soundproof the gaps between my studio wall and window frames, anyway, the same rules apply. I basically tried to make it as airtight as possible ("where air goes, sound goes"). I first had the idea of closing off the gaps and then filling them with sand. Seemed like a neat idea in theory at least. The only problem is you never know if the gaps are really full and once the sand has settled you could end up with a huge air gap. So, i ended up using a lot of different materials (as the transition into materials of different densities also tend to slow down sound). I closed up one side of the gap with a broad strip of acoustic heavy rubber type sheeting (very much like the stuff you've been using). Glued it, caulked the edges and added a wooden frame on top, screwed that into the wall to firmly seal of the gap. From the other side i sprayed a little layer of poly-urethane foam into the gap (i know, it has no mass/density and it's not the best material to use for soundproofing, but it does expand and creeps into every little corner. Then i stuffed the gap with rockwool/glasswool. Then i stuffed little strips of the denser acoustic foam stuff (not like auralex, we call it isofix or isolaphone, don't know any other name for it). Then i closed the gap on the other side in the same manner, glueing a strip of acoustic sheeting and adding a wooden frame on top. Finish by caulking every possible edge/gap. I haven't finished all this yet but so far, it does seem to stop quite a bit. It's probably not as effective as filling the gaps with cement but it sure is way more practical. You can of course add more layers, maybe extra acoustic rubber sheet in between (if you can fit that in of course). Good luck with it my man, i'm off getting my hands stuck between my wall and doorframe :-)