Best Bass trap/Absorption/Diffusion Solution For Living rm Studio ?

[Rokus666]

Hello all,

I've been reading a lot of posts from you guys about acoustics, measurement and treatment.

My primary goal is to make this living room "control" room sounding tight.
As you can see it is a bit asymmetrical and I was wondering if there is a way to make it sound more symmetrical using proper treatment. The shape should be pretty much as is. Speakers and table could be slightly moved towards the wall or little away from it.

I have red some posts by Cojo and his DIY bass traps and I would like to start from bass traps first (Frame, Stone wool and fabric)

Is there any theoretical/mathematical explanation about reflections in this room?
As you can see there is a lot of open space from left and right side.
The left and right walls are unequal in length, and I would prefer them keeping them this way. As of right now, the room sounds very muddy especially in lower range. Cannot hear the bass properly, stereo imaging is poor, unable to localize sound, high frequencies are scattered all over the place, very very problematic but the mixes are miraculously projecting well or at least that's what I think.
I am ready to make some panels (absorbers, corner traps and some home made diffusers and whatever it takes.
I am pretty determined to get this done right. Got 4 pairs of speakers (Event ASP8 as main, NS-10 as reference, POLK Audio S30 as loud and JBL Control-1 as reference2)
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Here are some pics of the place:


I also got Samson MM01 measurement microphone and will install software to get the response going on.

[Rokus666]

here are some real life pics of the place. I am sorry about the mess. The place is a total chaos. I will do some cleaning as soon i get these bass traps going...
The entrance to the place looking from the corridor:

[Rokus666]

Actual look of the rig: (pay attention in the upper right corner there is this cement railing or whatever it is and behind left loudspeaker there is a sealed door(sheetrock)

[Rokus666]

this is the actual look of the "studio" in messy beginning stage, no treatment or bass traps. This "box" kind of shape made of sheetrock walls primarly is located in the middle of the big room

[Rokus666]

This is the back wall of the living room

[Rokus666]

I am very puzzled by this enigma of acoustic treatment. I keep telling to my self that this room is impossible to make it sound symmetrical and acoustically treated because it's little oversize. I don't know, but it should have all kinds of problems. I don't know what to do in terms of everything (Absorption, diffusion, placement,...)

Anything you have to add would be of great value to me. This forum is the ultimate place to turn for help.
Thank you for reading !

P.S. I forgot to mention that on the right side of the room there are 5 big glass windows with metal frames. Huge ! BIG problem ??????

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Rokus666

I am very puzzled by this enigma of acoustic treatment.

It's really not that complicated. All rooms need:

* Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. More bass traps on the rear wall behind helps even further. You simply cannot have too much bass trapping. Real bass trapping, that is - thin foam and thin fiberglass don't work to a low enough frequency.

* Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling.

* Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling if the floor is reflective. Diffusion on the rear wall behind you is also useful in larger rooms.

on the right side of the room there are 5 big glass windows with metal frames. Huge ! BIG problem ??????

As long as you have absorption at the reflection points, glass behind the absorption doesn't matter. But you also need to slide your setup over so you're centered left and right in the room.

--Ethan

[Rokus666]

There is going to be a lot of fun work to fix this place up.

Absorption, diffusion and measurements.
Before I start all of this, I am just gonna measure the frequency response of the sweet spot just to see what problems I am dealing with and to show the curve before/after.

One thing I still don't get:

The right and left wall surrounding the control room are uneven. The left one is about 8ft and the right one is 4ft.
Will that affect the symmetry of the bouncing waves ? If yes, is there a speaker placement solution that will avoid this "problem" ?

[Glenn Kuras]

Ok 2 clocks, one right over top of each other, set to different time? There has to be some kind of funny story behind this, right?


Glenn

[Rokus666]

Ok 2 clocks, one right over top of each other, set to different time? There has to be some kind of funny story behind this, right?

Hi Glenn,
Actually there is a story behind. My dad is a clockmaker, I have a freaking clocks all over the place, freaking clocks from outer space: on the walls, the shelves, kitchen, bathroom,...
Some of them work, some of them don't. Sometimes in the middle of the good take some of them could go off and start ringing. It takes me a while to localize the sound of the clock among many on the shelves. It is actually hard to precisely locate the ringing clock among a bunch. Very deceptive. That proves that our ears and brains are so undeveloped and lame. Whenever I locate some of those, I shut them down.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Rokus666

The right and left wall surrounding the control room are uneven. The left one is about 8ft and the right one is 4ft.
Will that affect the symmetry of the bouncing waves ? If yes, is there a speaker placement solution that will avoid this "problem" ?

Yes. Read the last sentence of my post above.

--Ethan

[Rokus666]

Yes,
move the setup exactly in the middle of the space... will do.
Also in the process of getting the materials. will post some more progress with pictures over the weekend...

[Rokus666]

So ,

I got 705 5 cases (comes 2"x 2ft x 4ft) 6 panels per case
also 703 1 case (for the sealing and side walls) comes 8 in the case
Stapler + refills
Wood finish
gloves
carpenter glue
L brackets big and small
Respirator
5 in x 1 in x 1 in wooden boards for the casing of panels.

All of this costed me a considerably good price considering buying already made traps...

My question is:
I have red Ethan's article about spacing the fiberglas inside of casing.
Do you have to space the 705 at least 1" from the front of the fabric ?
Is it all right if i put the air filter in front of the fabric ?
I can close the back panel with fabric ?
Should I put something in between 2" panels of 705 ?

[Rokus666]

So I have started making casings from a nice pine tree for Owen Cornings.
705 will go to 5.2 thick 2x4 casing
703 will be 2" thick ?(is that a good to do on side walls and ceiling ?)





here is the good stuff:

[Glenn Kuras]

>Do you have to space the 705 at least 1" from the front of the fabric ?<

No the fabric right on the face and back is fine.

>Is it all right if i put the air filter in front of the fabric ?<

See above.

>I can close the back panel with fabric ?<


See above

>Should I put something in between 2" panels of 705 ?<

No just put them together to make a 4" panel.

Glenn

[Glenn Kuras]

703 will be 2" thick ?(is that a good to do on side walls and ceiling ?)

Yes 2" 703 made into 4" panels is fine for bass trapping.


Glenn

[Tomer1]

Before acoustic treatment I would start with removing or trashing everything that can be dumped.

[Rokus666]

What do you mean by removing everything that can get dumped ?
You mean the junk from the room ?
Oh yes, most of it is gonna go out. Those old amps are going to the garbage and some other old instruments with no value are departing. Also the bookshelves are going as well. I am gonna have a little yard sale pretty soon...

Anyway, I have just finished putting the panels together and putting the wood finish. Looks pretty nice. All I gotta do is get some fabric. Going to fabric district downtown NYC and shop for some cool materials. Probably getting some stretchable polyester in different colors so it looks cool and funky. I want them all to be in diff colors.

[Tomer1]

A bit OT,
I saw some really cool lofi-graphity type of paintings on canvas at this place i work in,
The thing that trigered my mind was its size - it was about 100X50X5 (cm) ,looking very much looked like a thin broadband panel.
There was no artist signature on it and when I touched it it didnt feel like paint so this led me to belive that maybe its computer printed on the fabric?

How would one do that to "art" up his panels?

I'l take some pictures with my cell phone tomorow.

[Rokus666]

Well, textile paint should work for designing your fabric.
Also if you have someone that has a huge screen printer, that would totally be hippie.

[Rokus666]

Paintjob in progress...
After that it's gonna be laying out the panels inside cases and putting fabric on the top with the stapler. i am afraid of this job because i think It's gonna be a big pain in the ass to do it right.

[Rokus666]

I have just made the first panel last night. It looks awesome.It's not that hard as it looks...

I will post some pictures of finished project sometimes this week...

[Rokus666]

I have finished a part of making the panels. Just testing out some sound.

have 2 705's in the corners
1 703 on the sealing angled
1 703 behind speakers

Listening some random music. Definitely sounds tighter, especially bass.
Stereo imaging is significantly improved, I can finally hear left and right. That's a good start I think. HUge difference.

Studio is still in Ghetto stage, gotta do a lot of cleaning up, plastering and to finish side walls. Next project will be diffusors.

One thing I am uncertain:
If you rest the panels and don't touch them, will the smell of fiberglass still be there ?

[Glenn Kuras]

Looks great man!!

Glenn

[Rokus666]

I wanted to make 2x4ft panels of 705 with casters.
Would like to use them for tracking guitar amps and soloists in the control room.
My concern is that if you move the panels a lot will be a lot of debris from fiberglass ?

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Rokus666

My concern is that if you move the panels a lot will be a lot of debris from fiberglass ?

Probably not.

--Ethan