Beginning construction in China

[Lunatique]

Before I begin, let me first say that I own three good books on the subject of studio construction/acoustic treatment:

building a recording studio, by Jeff Cooper
Acoustic Design for the Home Studio, by Mitch Gallagher
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros, by Rod Gervais

I try to reference the books whenever I have questions, but often the books don't cover everyone's unique situation, and that's why I'm here--seeking advice.

We are currently starting the interior construction of our new home in Fuzhou, China, and I'm trying to build a home project studio into the second floor. It is technically a loft apartment in a high-rise building, so each unit gets two floors--ours is floor 7 and 8. AFAIK, other than directly upstairs from the studio (which is floor 9's kitchen area), I have no other neighbors to worry about. The real estate companies in China do not do full interior construction when they sell units because people in China commonly want to do their own interior construction--that's why our place is so bare, with no interior walls at all.

I'm a composer/songwriter, and I will not be tracking loud bands or anything like that. I usually record my guitar/basses DI, and my drumset is electronic. I do record vocals though. The room isn' big enough to divide into control room and recording booth, so I'll have to combine them.

My listening level is usually from 80db to 90db. My neighbors will be noisy as people in China are pretty loud in general, and also for the next few years, other units will be doing interior contruction in their homes in our building or in nearby buildings.

Here's a photo with measurements of how it looks right now:


The orange color is the dimensions of the room (as how I'd like to have it once the walls are put up). The green color is the misc measurements of all the uneven parts (support beams, storage)the real estate company had built into the apartment. The purple color is where I'd put up a wall and door to the studio.

The window and the glass door are a concern, and I'll most likely just build hinged soundproof covers to close them up when I need to--probably wood panels with glassfiber insulation in the middle, and then put broadband acoustic panels on them.


The real estate company had built a small storage area into the room. I'll probably build a wooden frame around the opening and use a hinged broadband acoustic panel as its door, and let he storage area double as a bass trap.


The construction company the real estate company hired used hollow bricks like shown in this circular cutaway (it's a standard cut made in all houses to accomodate a hanging wall HVAC unit).

Speaking of HVAC unit, the most popular ones used in China are either the hanging wall units (on the left) or the standing units (on the right):
¹ãÖÝËÉÏ¿յ÷Æ÷ÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾

The lowest noise output for the wall units I've found is 22db, and 25db for the floor units. I don't know if that's quiet enough, and if not, I have to figure out a way to make them even more quiet.


Here an angle from the stairs.


Here's how the wall facing the outside (balcony) looks.


Here's what the building looks like from the outside.

So, my concerns currently are:

1) Does the current standard hollow bricks/cement wall/floor/ceiling used by the original construction company provide enough soundproofing? If not, what should I be adding to them? Simple wood panel/frame+glassfiber soundproofing, or just add another layer of brick/cement? The floor and the ceiling probably can't stand another layer of brick/cement's weight, so those will probably have to be wood+glassfiber?

2) Should I bother replacing the window/door with soundproof glass, or simply just make hinged soundproof "plugs" to block them off?

3) What to do about HVAC?

4) The interior wall (purple colored in the diagram) will be shared by the bathroom. Should I be worried? should to separate them into two walls?

5) Is that storage area fine to be used as a bass trap?

I've tried to do as much research as I can, but since I've never done anything like this before, and I'm no longer in the States, it's hard for me to find any help. People in a city like Fuzhou are pretty ignorant about any of the stuff--I probably know more than anyone else in the city. Anyway, any help you guys can give me will be much appreciated.

[Lunatique]

No one has any advice or suggestions? I'm really going at this alone without anyone locally that has any knowledge on the subject, and I could use all the help I can get.

[mikesilence]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

So, my concerns currently are:

1) Does the current standard hollow bricks/cement wall/floor/ceiling used by the original construction company provide enough soundproofing? If not, what should I be adding to them? Simple wood panel/frame+glassfiber soundproofing, or just add another layer of brick/cement? The floor and the ceiling probably can't stand another layer of brick/cement's weight, so those will probably have to be wood+glassfiber?

2) Should I bother replacing the window/door with soundproof glass, or simply just make hinged soundproof "plugs" to block them off?

3) What to do about HVAC?

4) The interior wall (purple colored in the diagram) will be shared by the bathroom. Should I be worried? should to separate them into two walls?

5) Is that storage area fine to be used as a bass trap?

I've tried to do as much research as I can, but since I've never done anything like this before, and I'm no longer in the States, it's hard for me to find any help. People in a city like Fuzhou are pretty ignorant about any of the stuff--I probably know more than anyone else in the city. Anyway, any help you guys can give me will be much appreciated.

Hi! Ni hao ma??

Unfortunately Fuzhou is too far away from where I know someone who could help you directly... he is currently stated in Zhongshan near Hongkong. But maybe I can help a bit here...

1) Normally I would say there should be enough soundproofing. If you want to be sure you would have to do a room-in-room construction which means you make additional walls, a damped floor and a separate ceiling. Something like this: http://www.axiomaudio.com/archives/i...m_in_room2.gif
Have a look also in John Sayers Forum: Recording Studio Design :: Index

2) If you have double-glass windows this should be ok.

3) Complicate... hanging one looks better or is better as it is not seen directly.

4) Should be no problem... unless you dislike loud music while taking a bath and someone else is in the room next door.

5) This should be okay, but why not makin bass traps in the corners and use the storage as a vocal booth?

Greetz,

Mike

[Lunatique]

mike - Thanks for the suggestions! I'm definitely considering a "room in a room" solution at the moment.

For AC, I have found wall-hanging units that go as low as 22db.

That space is probably too small for a vocal booth--at least one that is comfortable to be in, since once I treat it with acoustic panels you'd be brushing up against them all the time.

Update:

Photos of the current progress (now that the missing wall has been added.

Looking from the hallway at the entrance of the studio:


Standing inside the studio in front of the balcony door, looking at the entrance door:


Standing in front of the storage space opening, looking down the length of the studio:


Standing at the other end of the studio, looking at the storage opening space:


Close-up of the wall that was just added (yes, it's pitifully thin. I'll be adding a second wall to it):


I've started building a 3D mock-up in Sketchup. It's still not done yet though (missing details like the support beams, inner isolation walls/floor/ceiling, isolation plugs/doors for the glass window/doors...etc), but this is the direction I'm taking:


So now I have some new questions:

6) What is the best way to add soundproofing to the existing construction (which is all concrete)? Is adding another layer of concrete wall the best way to go? Or should I do the wooden frames with glassfiber panels between them thing? When doing either, should I be leaving an air space of a couple of inches from the original walls?

7) For the floor, I have seen conflicting views. In Jeff Cooper's book, he has diagrams of wood floating floor, but in Rod's book, he says that it's a bad idea to do floating wood floors and strongly discourages it. Who is right?

For my situation, my studio is on the 2nd floor of our apartment (it's a 2-story loft apartment in a high rise. We have other units below and above us. We're technically the 7th and 8th floor. My wife isn't concerned about any sounds I make upstairs while she's downstairs. She's never complained about my music in the 5+ years we've been married. So, I'm not as concerend about the floor isolation in terms of bothering others, and my wife is prett quiet in general, so I can't imagine her making enough noise downstairs to travel up from the ceiling into the studio. Or am I wrong? Should I bother with soundproofing for the floor, or just add a wooden floor on top of the concrete and call it the day?

8 ) All those support beams you see on the ceiling and at some places in the walls--how do people generally treat those? Just ignore them? Treat them like any other corner and put bass traps around them? Since I need to build an inner layer of soundproofing walls/ceiling/floor anyway, maybe I should just make the soundproofing walls flush with the beams so they no longer protrude?

9) Should I just build a soundproofing door for the storage space and treat the room as if that storage space does not exist, or I should turn that storage space into a giant bass trap? If I do, would it throw off the symmetry of the room?

10) For isolation and absorbtion, as I understand it, you can use cheaper material as long as it has similar density to the often mentioned glassfiber stuff (703, 705). So what are these cheaper materials? It also seems that rigid glassfiber panels are preferred because they hold their shape better when making soundproofing walls and acoustic panels. Is that the only reason?

[Lunatique]

More progress on the 3D mock-up (using downloaded models):

[Bounce]

Looks cool :-) Maybe the storage space could be an iso for your computer(s)?

[Lunatique]

Originally Posted by Bounce

Looks cool :-) Maybe the storage space could be an iso for your computer(s)?

I seriously considered that, but then I realize I'd have no way of venting that space, short of drilling holes in the storage and install fans. I also don't like the idea of using a bunch of extension cables for all my various gear attached to the computers. Running back and forth will also be a pain in the butt. If I can build an ISO box with a hinged door, I'll be able to access the computers a lot easier, and no need for extension cables.

[Bounce]

Very true! Good plan :-)

[Mikiber]

are you really that beautifull women in the picture ??
if yes- will you marry me ?

[Lunatique]

Originally Posted by Mikiber

are you really that beautifull women in the picture ??
if yes- will you marry me ?

I wish I was that pretty. That's actually my wife. I prefer to look at her cute face than my own when I'm browsing the forums. :)

[Mikiber]

and also because you get faster reply with a nice face, no ?
anyway - no offense but ...wow... :)

and about youre post :
I guess the reason why i can see this post unanswered for so long, is because it seems you already know what's the best for you...
you don't really need advices - but anyway keep sending some pics.

greetings from jerusalem.

[Glenn Kuras]

I prefer to look at her cute face than my own when I'm browsing the forums. :)

I think we can all agree with that statement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

glenn

[mikesilence]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

mike - Thanks for the suggestions! I'm definitely considering a "room in a room" solution at the moment.

For AC, I have found wall-hanging units that go as low as 22db.

That space is probably too small for a vocal booth--at least one that is comfortable to be in, since once I treat it with acoustic panels you'd be brushing up against them all the time.

So now I have some new questions:

6) What is the best way to add soundproofing to the existing construction (which is all concrete)? Is adding another layer of concrete wall the best way to go? Or should I do the wooden frames with glassfiber panels between them thing? When doing either, should I be leaving an air space of a couple of inches from the original walls?

7) For the floor, I have seen conflicting views. In Jeff Cooper's book, he has diagrams of wood floating floor, but in Rod's book, he says that it's a bad idea to do floating wood floors and strongly discourages it. Who is right?

For my situation, my studio is on the 2nd floor of our apartment (it's a 2-story loft apartment in a high rise. We have other units below and above us. We're technically the 7th and 8th floor. My wife isn't concerned about any sounds I make upstairs while she's downstairs. She's never complained about my music in the 5+ years we've been married. So, I'm not as concerend about the floor isolation in terms of bothering others, and my wife is prett quiet in general, so I can't imagine her making enough noise downstairs to travel up from the ceiling into the studio. Or am I wrong? Should I bother with soundproofing for the floor, or just add a wooden floor on top of the concrete and call it the day?

8 ) All those support beams you see on the ceiling and at some places in the walls--how do people generally treat those? Just ignore them? Treat them like any other corner and put bass traps around them? Since I need to build an inner layer of soundproofing walls/ceiling/floor anyway, maybe I should just make the soundproofing walls flush with the beams so they no longer protrude?

9) Should I just build a soundproofing door for the storage space and treat the room as if that storage space does not exist, or I should turn that storage space into a giant bass trap? If I do, would it throw off the symmetry of the room?

10) For isolation and absorbtion, as I understand it, you can use cheaper material as long as it has similar density to the often mentioned glassfiber stuff (703, 705). So what are these cheaper materials? It also seems that rigid glassfiber panels are preferred because they hold their shape better when making soundproofing walls and acoustic panels. Is that the only reason?

6) Best would be adding additional walls with a small space to the existing ones, the „real“ room-in-room concept.

7) If you can afford it do a floating floor with insulation between the wooden bars. Have a look also on johnlsayers.com. For me as I have my studio in the basement and enough mass for the floor I first put in rubber matts 0.5mm I still had and put OSB wooden plates on it. This seem to work well. Have a look also on my thread here in the studio construction subforum:
Had to move - studio rebuild in basement

8) Use them to make a ceiling non-parallel to the floor, so you avoid standing waves.

9) You could use it for bass trapping but first you should measure the untreated room, if the reverb is about 2.6s with linear frequency response you are fine. A storage is also fine to have…

10) There are also isolations made of cannabis… they could be cheaper. Or use basotect which is a bit more expensive…


P.S. sorry for long time not answering...

[andrebrito]

If the building acoustics regulations in China don't work as expected (they don't work on most of the places so I presume they won't work in China as well, and maybe they don't even have legislation regarding building acoustics, don't know) then you have a problem.

It does not matter if the building is entirely made concrete and looks like is going to soundproof. It won't, most probably ! You are not a problem, the problem is the noise coming out from your neighbors, from footsteps above and from outside noise, ruining your recordings. This can be solved by doing a construction inside that space using lightweight materials (gypsum and mdf with bituminous materials or something like Green Glue). Enough for what you want to do. So you should, like stated by another user, build a room in a room but don't create a second floor, just improve the one you have now.

[Lunatique]

After some consideration (and at the urging of others), I decided to keep all threads related to the construction of my new studio in one thread, so it's easier to keep track of, and might help others in the future by document what to do and not to do. The definitive thread is here:
RECORDING Beginning construction in China - Ok, I've decided to update this thread with helpful links to other threads I started for specific questions/problems in regards to this construction, and hopefully when I'm all done, this thread can be a so

[Lunatique]

[drew]

Do you have a link for the quiet AC units you mentioned earlier?

[Greener]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

I wish I was that pretty. That's actually my wife. I prefer to look at her cute face than my own when I'm browsing the forums. :)

So when you say "browsing" you mean reading your own posts...

[Lunatique]

Originally Posted by drew

Do you have a link for the quiet AC units you mentioned earlier?

Quiet AC solution (wall hanging units)

RECORDING Quiet AC solution (wall hanging units) - http://www.ductless.ca/ac/mitsubishi.html I'm probably going to buy something like Mr. Slim for my new studio, and was wondering if anyone has used one of these and are happy with the performance. Th

[drew]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

Quiet AC solution (wall hanging units)

RECORDING Quiet AC solution (wall hanging units) - http://www.ductless.ca/ac/mitsubishi.html I'm probably going to buy something like Mr. Slim for my new studio, and was wondering if anyone has used one of these and are happy with the performance. Th

Thanks.