Nearly Impossible challenge Apartment Hiphop Studio

[Pistolpete]

Hello all G Slutz, first off I would like to thank everyone who posts very interesting, credible, and informational material here...I have learned a lot..

I had a very nice studio designed but because of declined business and some other living changes I no longer could afford the studio space. So I am trying the near impossible and I recently aquired a 1br apartment in which I would like to turn the bedroom with walkin closet into a small mixing room with tracking booth...

Now I have been reading quite a bit the last 2 weeks on room acoustics...similar situations and I am fully aware that a correctly designed studio starts from the ground up and requires isolations and thick insulations. I am in no way looking to make this a permanent location but do want to issue as much bass isolation from the neighboring apartments...I know that in my situation any major construction to the exixting stucture can be done so I have drafted up some plans and done a lot of research and believe that this idea may pull it off within reason....

I have included a few diagrams/plans of the room, setup, ceiling and traps designed but would like as much input as possible before I get to construction...

MY MAIN Concerns....
Bass Isolation from other apartments
decent room acoustics with near flat response
Cheap as possible
lightweight and removable without much structure damage....


MY MONITORS...and setup
I mainly do Hiphop/Rap music mixing with some vocal recording...also Voice overs for commercials...
I use as my primary monitors Event ASP8's with a Yamaha HS10 sub, also as second set Fostex PM5's
My events are run Emu 1810M to Presonus Central Station to DBX 2231 (for slight speaker correction)

The ROOM
I have included some quick drawings done in MSPaint to show the layout and dimensions of the room, the proposed set up with soundproofing, the ceiling set up, and the construction of the bass traps...

The ceiling is Stucco and very reflective, Walls are pretty thin with a matte paint and also very reflective...

THE BASS TRAP DESIGNS...

I haven't finalized the designs yet and am open to suggestions...

The traps will be a wood frame, consisting of a cheap, light and acousticly good wood....any suggestions?? The dimensions for each box will range from W 1'-4' X H 96" X 6" debth.

The side wall traps will be constructed with rubber sandwiching wood posts that will rest against the existing wall to maintain a 6' airgap between traps and existing structure...

The traps will also have eyehooks to secure to ceiling and existing walls for stability....and will have a forward mounted foot so support inward..

The material I found to be cheapest for me, with good acoustic absorbtion, and non fiberglass was this ultratouch cotton insulation....I am ordering the 5.5" thick matts 2" by 96" and plenty of them...this will be my main absorbative material for my traps...I did see that 705 was also effective, but did not want fiberglass because of these traps being made for easy moving...

UltraTouch Natural Cotton Fiber Insulation offers superior sound and thermal insulation in a Class-A fire rated product resistant to mold and mildew.


Now as for a first layer on top of the ultratouch cotton I was thinking a couple of different things...I already placed the order for a ton of these acoustic blankets which had great mid/high absortion coefficients.

Acoustic blanket, sound proof blanket: Lowest Prices - Audimute Soundproofing

-I was thinking as using this material for the top layer (toward the monitors) on the bass boxes.....(see illustration for better visual)

-Do you recommend this, or would a acoustic cotton or peaked foam be better for the high end absorbtion....??

-Now as for covering the big frame to keep the materials inside I was thinking about a wire mesh, or nylon mesh??? any one better than the other...???

THE CEILING

The major problem I am working around is the Large ceiling fan in the middle of the room...My solution is to mount (2) Large 4' x 8' by 6" bass traps on each side of the fan...The one on my monitoring side will be suspended about 2'-3' from the ceiling tward the back of my monitors, And the fan side will be about 6"-1" distance from the ceiling...(C-B)

The rear trap will have to be flush with the wall above the rear window because of size conflicts but im not sure if I should angle it or keep it flush....Any Suggestions...I have about 3-6' inches to play with on window side...(C-A)

Also on right and left side of the fan the ceiling will be exposed by about 2' x 6' lengths...do you reccomend that I treat these areas....(C-C)??

All doors will have a 1' by 6' trap mounted to them as well.....


Overall I think this will drasticlly reduce the sound transmitted thru the apartment....

I also understand that this is going to deaden the room drasticly so if needed I am prepared to hang additional materials to reflect or diffuse the higher frequencys...

IF anyone has any suggestions who has more knowledge on this than me go right ahead.....

[Pistolpete]

Here is the ceiling picture...

[Pistolpete]

Here is the ceiling layout I propose...any suggestions are welcome....

[Pistolpete]

I have these additional materials available for use....maybe You can help me use these constructively in my new room...

I have about gypsum boards covered in 2 layers of a very light cotton/acrillic black material...with 1" wood spacers for the corners (used in my other studio for early reflections) The sizes and quantities are (2) 3' x 4.5', (2) 1.5' x 5', (1) 2'x 4'

Also I have about 50 sq ft of 5" triangle auralex studio foam...

[Pistolpete]

What type of wood is the lightest, cheapest and best in this situation....?

also when building 4' x 96" boxes, the insulation sheets are only 24" wide...would it be better to divide the 4' box in half, essentially making 2 even boxes in the 4" trap, or just use the outside frame and butt the 2 pieces of insulation together...?

I also realize that this room will be quite dead after I am finished, what are some cost effective ways of brightening the room back up?....and where if new materials are placed for increasing reflections, would they be placed..?

Also I plan on putting an air gap between existing wall and bass traps for maximum bass absorbtion.....what is the best distance i could use between traps and existing wall....I am thinking with 5.5" ultratouch cotton insulation, 6" should be a good distance.....

Also should I treat the existing wall with somthing, to stop sound transfer...like corkboards or rubber??

if someone could please help me out I would greatly appreciate it...

[Pistolpete]

well I recieved my audiomute sound absorbant sheets and completely covered the rooms walls....wow this was actully pretty interesting because now the room is completly dead, supprisingly the low end was absorbed pretty well with these sheets...Ill post pics later.... Now i have to wait a few weeks to assemble the floor to ceiling bass traps and complete the dead room...then to liven it up after that....

Whats interesting about the whole experience is that when spending some time in a completely dead room, walking around talking to yourself you really notice where sound still reflects, and when looking out of the room, into my living room and talking you can hear very clearly the massive reverb and echo on my voice...couldn't believe it was that bad....

Well if someone can give some suggestions on the wood to use for the bass traps I would greatly appreciate it...

Thanks

[Pistolpete]

I received my Audiomute acoustic blankets last tuesday and I was very impressed with the design, ease of use, the acoustic absorbtion properties and these blankets did exactly what I wanted them for for part 1 of my apartment studio construction. These sheets really deadened the room, which was expected. I was curious and ran some pink noise and walked around with my Phonic paa2 (I know its not the best, but I am pretty impressed with it) and supprisingly had a very flat response. The only problem now was that at 12k-16k and below 50hz there is an extreem drop off of db..I'm talking 6-14db....and other than that and a severe 6db peak at 100-125 everything else was +/_ .5db.

How do I bring these extreme lows and highs back to a decent level...EQ brings way too much noise to my speakers...what could I do to the room to brighten and enhance the 12-16k and below 50hz??

Phase 2 will be constructing the boxes explained above to line the walls and hopefully deaden most of the bass that leaks the room, at least on the side of the weird old lady....


Its actully pretty different having a completely dead room, its real noticable when you speak turning in a circle and can identify exactly how certain items are reflecting your voice.....It was also interesting standing abbout a foot or two inside my room and talking into a completely untreated and quite naked living room, you could hear the reverb of the room almost intensified standing inside the dead room, and you could hear the differnt reflections individually comming back to you....

any suggestions about how to fix my frequency probs

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Pistolpete

I received my Audiomute acoustic blankets ... below 50hz there is an extreem drop off of db..I'm talking 6-14db....and other than that and a severe 6db peak at 100-125 everything else was +/_ .5db.

Blankets do nothing for the bass range or even the low mids. If all you have so far are the blankets, and no bass traps, I imagine your response is worse than you think. But how are you measuring?

--Ethan

[Pistolpete]

Im using a Phonic Paa2, handheld....

I am definitly in understanding that the audio blankets dont do much for the low end, there absorbtion coefficients were around .4 at 125hz....This is only the first stage of construction, but for temporary, how can i bring up the bass from 20-50 hz up 6db, and the highs from 12.5 to 20k up 6db. Without adjusting my speakers and eqing the shiz out of my signal...

Also, for building my frames as above, what would be the best wood to use for first, cheap, 2nd lightweight, and third the acoustic absorbtion properties...?

When walking the room almost the whole room is flat....corners bass below 125 is very high, about +8db, but twards mix position and all around the room away from corners the response is flat...

[dredbird]

Bass trapping won't do anything for your neighbors, it's all aboot creating a reflection free zone to allow you to monitor an accurate mix.

For framing, I used pine 1X2s. Light and inexpensive, they were aboot $2 apiece in 8 foot lengths down to the Lowes/Depot.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Pistolpete

Im using a Phonic Paa2, handheld.

As I suspected. That's a third octave analyzer, which doesn't give the resolution you need to measure the bass response in a small room. It's okay for mid and high frequencies though.

The solution is always broadband absorption that works well to as low a frequency as possible.

--Ethan

[Pistolpete]

First off, thank you for your input...

What type of measurements and device would you be referring to conduct more accurate bass measurements...?

Is there a book that you would reccomend that would explain these concepts (basic to intermediate) better for me to understand, including room measurement, isolation, different waves, studio construction, materials...etc...

back to the comment 2 posts ago.....I understand that bass isolation is a vital necessaty in the construction phase of a room....your saying with 5.5" ultratouch cotton, encased in a frame, seperated from the existing wall with a 6" airgap and then acoustic sheets with a absorbative coefficient of .4 will not reduce the bass wave transmission??? at all??? I do not believe that it will entirely stop the bass, but that doesn't seem to make sense that it will not have a reduction effect on the overeral audible volume that translates......

so for example your saying if my bass is transmitting at 85db at 125hz, and I add the custom panels of 5.5" ultratouch cotton, which has a +1.00 absorbtion coeficcient at 125hz....your telling me with that panel, an airgap of 6 inches, another .5" of absorbtion sheet, with a absorbtion coeficcient at around .4....and then the existing wall...that the other side of the wall (my neighbors side) will still be registering 85db at 125 hz...???? That doesn't make sense....I would assume that at lease there would be a 40-70% reduction in overall low end volume?? am I assuming correctly??? I couldn't believe that it would do nothing at all?? Please correct me if I am wrong...I am a novice in acoustics...

Would I achieve better reduction results from my neighbors if I used a thin sound blocking rubber sheet on the opposite sides of my bass traps??

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Pistolpete

What type of measurements and device would you be referring to conduct more accurate bass measurements...?

Using ETF

Is there a book that you would reccomend...

There are at least 50 books. Start with the following web links which are free, and will keep you busy for weeks.

Acoustics FAQ
RealTraps Articles
RealTraps Videos

For sound isolation this book is excellent:

Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros

--Ethan

[Pistolpete]

Thank you Ethan!