How to improve my stereo image

[stamand]

Here some pic of my project studio...I have 7 trap(made with ottawa fibre)2x4(2 inch tick) and 1 cloud 3x6(4 inch tick).I try to improve my stereo image.Any advice...Thank you

yannick

[Ethan Winer]

Yannick,

It's difficult for me to tell from your photos where the panels and cloud are in relation to the speakers and mix position. But from what I can see it looks okay. Did you use a mirror or calculations to place the absorbers? If you have the reflection points covered, your imaging should be excellent. More here:

RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room
RealTraps - Creating a Reflection-Free Zone

--Ethan

[Glenn Kuras]

I am with Ethan on this one. If you feel things are off you might want to try a panel behind each speaker. This will help with the SBIR (Learn what is SBIR (Speaker Boundary Interface Response).).

Glenn

[stamand]

Hi ethan and glen,
Here new picture of my cloud...Keep me update about that...thank you for your time

yannick

[stamand]

one more...thank you

yannick

[Glenn Kuras]

I think you did a fine job but let me point out a couple of things. Some of these are more to do with bass trapping but thought I would point it out.

1)I can see more panels straddling corners in that room. If you don't have wall to wall corners to straddle then I would lay them horizontally along the front wall and side wall. The following is a picture of what I mean.



2)Place on panel behind each speaker to help with SBIR (from my first post)

3)I think you really need something on the back wall. Maybe panels on stands or something, as it looks like you have a sliding door.

4)You could also use 2 panels for each side wall. That will broaden the area on the early reflections on those side walls. I generally like to see people use a 4x4 area for that part of the room, which is 2 panels.

Great looking place!!!

Glenn

[Græmatter Audio]

Originally Posted by stamand

Here some pic of my project studio...I have 7 trap(made with ottawa fibre)2x4(2 inch tick) and 1 cloud 3x6(4 inch tick).I try to improve my stereo image.Any advice...Thank you

yannick

Over and above the suggestions already made regarding additional bass trapping a few things strike me immediately in seeing these photos, particularly with regard to your desire for improved stereo imaging:
1. Do whatever you need to do to get your cpu(s) and their noisy fans out of your listening environment - i.e. buy monitor extenders and put the computers outside in the hall.
2. In addition to creating a larger (4'x4' and thicker if possible) area of absorbtion on the first reflection points on the side and front walls it looks to me like it would be worth splitting up your 1 large rack into 2 lower racks arranged symmetrically on either side of the room.
3. Regarding your desk itself - try sitting where you normally sit and placing a mirror on the desktop surface between you and your speakers - if you can see tweeter in the mirror, you've got comb filtering (though the dispersion characteristics of those genelecs may help to minimize this.) The solution here is to start with speaker and listener placement, refining placement for flattest response and good stereo imaging - and then customize a worksurface solution that fits into the arrangement with as small a surface area as possible and/or no direct reflection points between the tweeters and your "sweet spot." You do have the right idea with keeping your display back flush with and below your speakers (although this can create it's own issues with eye and neck strain) and with using speaker stands to physically decouple the speakers from your worksurface.
4. The other considerations here are to place yourself far enough away from the speakers that each speaker acts as a point-source while ideally making sure that you're at least 10 feet from the rear wall, while keeping the speakers at least 2-3 ft. away from the front wall (closer than this to any boundary and low frequency response gets very ugly.) If placement constraints put you near or inside of 3 ft. to the speakers and stereo imaging is a priority for you, I'd suggest looking at EMES Blacks or another full range dual-concentric speaker design.

Regarding the other suggestions; wall/floor corner traps are certainly efficient, but may not be particularly convenient in a small space, getting in the way of gear, electrical outlets, etc. If you do need more bass trapping you may want to start by completely covering your front wall/corners behind your speakers - ideally with thicker material, and adding reflective plastic wrap under your fabric as necessary to retain mid and high frequencies.

[stamand]

Over and above the suggestions already made regarding additional bass trapping a few things strike me immediately in seeing these photos, particularly with regard to your desire for improved stereo imaging:
1. Do whatever you need to do to get your cpu(s) and their noisy fans out of your listening environment - i.e. buy monitor extenders and put the computers outside in the hall.
2. In addition to creating a larger (4'x4' and thicker if possible) area of absorbtion on the first reflection points on the side and front walls it looks to me like it would be worth splitting up your 1 large rack into 2 lower racks arranged symmetrically on either side of the room.
3. Regarding your desk itself - try sitting where you normally sit and placing a mirror on the desktop surface between you and your speakers - if you can see tweeter in the mirror, you've got comb filtering (though the dispersion characteristics of those genelecs may help to minimize this.) The solution here is to start with speaker and listener placement, refining placement for flattest response and good stereo imaging - and then customize a worksurface solution that fits into the arrangement with as small a surface area as possible and/or no direct reflection points between the tweeters and your "sweet spot." You do have the right idea with keeping your display back flush with and below your speakers (although this can create it's own issues with eye and neck strain) and with using speaker stands to physically decouple the speakers from your worksurface.
4. The other considerations here are to place yourself far enough away from the speakers that each speaker acts as a point-source while ideally making sure that you're at least 10 feet from the rear wall, while keeping the speakers at least 2-3 ft. away from the front wall (closer than this to any boundary and low frequency response gets very ugly.) If placement constraints put you near or inside of 3 ft. to the speakers and stereo imaging is a priority for you, I'd suggest looking at EMES Blacks or another full range dual-concentric speaker design.

Regarding the other suggestions; wall/floor corner traps are certainly efficient, but may not be particularly convenient in a small space, getting in the way of gear, electrical outlets, etc. If you do need more bass trapping you may want to start by completely covering your front wall/corners behind your speakers - ideally with thicker material, and adding reflective plastic wrap under your fabric as necessary to retain mid and high frequencies.

1-What can i do with my desk???Do you have any model suggestion(argosy...)
2-What can i do with my display???Do you have any picture example???

Thank you so much everyone

yannick

[robdarling]

From what I'm seeing, it seems to me that you have an awful lot of very reflective hardwood surfaces for a mix room.

If I took a look at a picture and were told to guess its purpose, I'd say the room looks like it would be better suited to drum recording than to mixing.

[Græmatter Audio]

Originally Posted by stamand

1-What can i do with my desk???Do you have any model suggestion(argosy...)
2-What can i do with my display???Do you have any picture example???

Thank you so much everyone

yannick

1.&2. No easy answer to this - a desk/work-surface between the listening position and the speakers is a necessary evil in most small, and in particular, DAW based studios - due to the ergonomics of the present state of human/computer interaction. As far as your particular situation goes, I can't really suggest anything specific as ideal listener/speaker placement is contingent on the individual characteristics of the room ... dimensions/ratios and the resulting modal distribution, speaker/boundary interference, etc. I can however share the solution I came up with for my own personal space (16'2"Lx10'10"Wx7'10"H) - I've gone with a well reasonably balanced, optimized placement option that creates a rather compact listening triangle - approximately 3 ft. from tweeter to ear. This short a distance would be a problem with a conventional speaker, but not for a dual-concentric (in my case EMES Blacks.) Mounting on Sound Anchor stands set up for maximum overhang enables flexibility in work-surface placement - and this is the key to the set-up; the front edge of the desk extends close enough towards me to direct potential speaker-floor-ear reflections up into ceiling absorbers, but does not extend far enough forward to cause a direct reflection from the surface itself ... all while keeping me close to the mouse and keyboard, avoiding wrist problems, as well as keeping the display close enough for comfortable viewing, but far enough back as to avoid too much in the way of acoustic interference. I've attached a photo for reference. I'm not about to claim that this is the most awesome sounding near-field arrangement ever, as there's still compromise - but it does sound very (surprisingly) good and avoids most of the typical small room/near-field pitfalls.

It's quite possible that in your situation, especially if you have a larger space to work with, that you'll get better results with a larger placement triangle - if this is the case, then sure, maybe something like the Argosy Raven with an adjustable monitor arm or Dual 15 with angled, low profile displays would work. (This would also provide you with symmetrical, low profile rack space to replace the current monolith.) Another option is of course putting the work-surface/computer monitors off to the side, but this creates it's own problems. These are just some options to consider - I'm not a professional acoustician or studio designer, so these suggestions should be taken with a grain of salt. Near-field/DAW integration is however of particular interest to me, as I've had to adapt to a number of different small-room DAW based environments over the past several years - it's obviously a growing trend - and I see both untapped potential (i.e. possibility of improved acoustics vs. conventional console based mixing environments) and common problems (i.e. ergonomic interface placement limitations vs. acoustic considerations.) I'm interested in how others are addressing these concerns - and, this being Gearslutz, I'm also curious about what the future holds as far as Pro Audio solutions that adequately address this apparent dichotomy.

Anyhow - hopefully I'm not taking the thread too far off course ... to get back to your original question: How to improve my stereo image - something else has come to mind . I see Lynx converters, which IMO are excellent with stereo imaging that compares favorably with other much more expensive converters. Was curious though - what are they running through on their way to the speakers? How is the signal being attenuated prior to the speakers' amps?

G.

[bpape]

I strongly suspect that the angled ceiling space that's not covered from the front wall back to your seating position is causing a lot of cross cancellation that can be mucking up (technical term ) your imaging.

Bryan

[robdarling]

I would seriously recommend against any kind of Argosy desk. They will muck up your low end and won't help your imaging.

If you want to make a change in this area, I'd do the following:

Get a larger monitor, say an old Apple 23" Cinema Display. What is cool about this monitor is that it does 1660x1024 in 23 inches, which makes everything nice and big. So you can put the monitor a little farther back. I'd bet you could get one cheap.

Put the Monitor on its own stand.

Then get a Herman Miller Scooter Stand. This is a great stand that easily changes height and is just the right size for a kybd, mouse, and 88 key controller. It has as little acoustic footprint as you can have.

This will all work amazingly well at getting your tools as far out of the equation as they can be.

I still say the elepahant in the room, for all the personal methodologies being thrown around here, is that your walls are made of hardwood and are going to torque your imaging.

Your room isn't big and every reflection is going to be under 30ms, which means it will be considered part of the original sound to your ear.

This means your walls, while they look great, are going to seriously mess with the imaging.

[delasoul]

hey which genelecs are those? im also curious what sort of volume attenuation thing you have..


you know i asked my teacher the same question while i was in school.. he said "to get a better stereo image you should put your speakers farther apart.."

he was joking of course