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| | #1 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Georgia
Posts: 586
| Tonewood use in studio construction any of you using tonewoods other than cedar in your studio? if so, curious as to what and how happy you were with the results |
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| | #2 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 4,834
| What do you mean by "tonewoods?" A recording room or control room should never have resonances in the sense that a violin or cello has. All woods sound more or less the same, and none are much different than a plain sheet rock wall. The main appeal of wood in a studio is looks, not sound. But if I'm missing your point, please clarify. --Ethan
__________________ www.realtraps.com The acoustic treatment experts ----------------------- Amazing Telecaster guitar video |
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| | #3 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Georgia
Posts: 586
| exactly as different woods make acoustic instruments have differences in tonal qualities, i was wondering if the use of these woods in my studio construction would add any additional warmth, tightness, etc in a favorable way. (specifically for getting great room sounds when tracking) |
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| | #4 |
| Gear maniac | If you're going to use fine "tonewoods" in your construction, then I'd be glad to sell you some of our left over "tonesulation" and "tonesheetrock"- it's very expensive, but for some people only the best will do. Conversely, if you know anyone with an excess of marimbas, The wood can be harvested and assembled into a full spectrum, multiple octave tonewood slat resonators. Figure approximately 3 disassembled marimbas per square meter. ![]()
__________________ Make everything louder than everything else. |
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| | #5 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Georgia
Posts: 586
| nice.... ![]() |
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| | #6 |
| Gear maniac | Sorry, couldn't help it. Seriously though, all hardwoods pretty similarly reflective. Aside from the wood thickness & actual room geometry, I think whatever OTHER materials you employ (fabrics, stone, glass) will bear the burden of providing "warmth." I'm not sure that you could hear the difference between a maple, oak or MDF walled room (provided the panels share the same finish). I'll bet you can hear the difference between raw, painted and polyurethane finishes though. Anyone experience a change after finishing their wood? I've got a friend in NYC that used "mushroom board" or "barn board" to finish his studio. After staining & clear coat, the planks are very rigid, thick and have a very exaggerated and knotty grain - probably provide a bunch of natural diffusion. ![]() big booth with mushroomboard diffuser.
__________________ Make everything louder than everything else. |
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| | #7 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 4,834
| Quote:
--Ethan
__________________ www.realtraps.com The acoustic treatment experts ----------------------- Amazing Telecaster guitar video | |
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| | #8 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 339
| i was at sing sing in melbourne australia recently, and they have a room that uses a bunch of rough lumber with the bark still on it as a diffusers. it looked really cool, and it must have been somewhat effective. |
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| | #9 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Georgia
Posts: 586
| thanks for the feedback gents. |
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| | #10 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 1,842
| I use rough redwood. Doubt that redwood is much different in sound properties than other woods but I enjoy the rustic, warm vibe it gives the room. |
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| | #11 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin
Posts: 314
| Quote:
i don't know. i would think that people would want, nice, colorful sounding rooms at least some of the time. hell, i would. i'd want a neutral control room of course, but at least one tracking room with a rich sound is what my goal is. or am i taking you out of context? as far as tonewoods having different sounds, it sounds pretty reasonable to me, to say that different woods with different densities reflect sound in different ways. is this not true? take abbey road, a place renowned for its great sounding rooms(i apologize for such a cliche example)... do the construction materials not play a role in the sound of those rooms? reason i'm asking, is because, when i finally pull the trigger and convert my garage into a studio, i want the room to sound cool and unique. -jose | |
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| | #12 | |
| Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: kennewick, WA
Posts: 111
| Quote:
I think Ethan is talking about avoiding the resonances and modes that help make up an instruments timbre in your room; whereas you're talking about a well designed room with absorption and reflection consisting of diffusion and maybe diffraction designed to avoid resonances and modes. | |
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| | #13 |
| Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 104
| the best drum room i have ever heard was just wood. i happen to think wood sounds great, it looks great, feels warm, and also has a natural diffusion if left knotty and unfinished. this may not be scientific, but making music shouldn't be. just my opinion. |
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| | #14 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York
Posts: 3,907
| I am picturing in my mind a room built like a giant guitar, made out of fine wood, suspended and free to vibrate. Now I am imagining setting up a drum kit, electric bass and electric guitar in that room. ![]()
__________________ . “What you ask about is music. What you like is sound. Now music and sound are akin, but they are not the same.” — Confucius |
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| | #15 |
| Lives for gear | Acoustic instruments are made to resonate, mostly in the midrange which is where our ears are most sensitive. This is why different acoustic guitars or violins have such different tone. Materials, and construction technique. The only place I can think of in a studio where resonance might be beneficial is if you have a well-designed slot resonator. But that's not really the same as resonance, it's more like a negative-resonance. I can easily imagine different woods used in a slot resonator would have a different tone, but there are a couple problems with that idea that I see. I could be wrong, I'm just sort of thinking out loud here. First, a slot resonator isn't creating tone, it's absorbing tone. So it doesn't have a tone of its own, it just has an affect on the tone of everything around it. Sort of a negative-tone. I still think it possible that different woods might have different effects on the tone around it, especially in the midrange. Think of the differences between, say, a cedar top and a spruce top acoustic guitar. The spruce top is generally brighter. However, think about how thick a violin is. It's basically very thin wood. Not a lot of mass, so the resonances will be in that crucial midrange area, where our ears are most sensitive. Slats on a resonator are generally 3/4" thick or more. Much different mass, where tonal differences in the midrange are less likely to be so distinctive. I think rough cut wood will have a different effect on the sound vs. sanded, finished wood. The highs will reflect less, or at the very least differently. I also think rough cut lumber might absorb a bit, too, depending on the density of the wood. I imagine softwoods might be great for slat resonators for this reason. Personally, I'm leaning toward rough-cut hemlock, once I get my build going, but I still have more research to do in this area. Having said all this, I think differences between wood in rooms is probably going to be subtle. Wood is going to primarily reflect sound. But I'd love to see an actual test of this: a room done up exactly the same way with different kinds of woods and acoustic testing each iteration....
__________________ www.craftedrecordings.com Quality on-location audio recording in Northern New England www.realtraps.com The acoustic treatment experts |
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| | #16 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin
Posts: 314
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| | #17 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 4,834
| Quote:
--Ethan
__________________ www.realtraps.com The acoustic treatment experts ----------------------- Amazing Telecaster guitar video | |
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| | #18 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin
Posts: 314
| Quote:
but what about the room sounds that we hear in the cool-sounding old recordings, like chicago, and the beatles etc. those are not neutral sounding to me. how does one achieve a rich, euphonic room sound? -is what i'm asking. -jose | |
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| | #19 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hamilton, On Canada
Posts: 948
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| | #20 | |
| Lives for gear | What if....... Quote:
Could you design a live room, using a bunch of wooden structures that have resonant frequencies that corresponde various note pitches ? I'd bet that if enough thought were put into it, (and work... )you get get the resonances of these wooden structures to work with you , instead of against you, giving you a beautiful sounding live room..... I always thought that wood was used in live rooms for this purpose, since the shorter angled wood peices would resonate at different frequencies than the longer ones.... | |
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| | #21 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hamilton, On Canada
Posts: 948
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| | #22 |
| Lives for gear | but aren't those just absorbers ? What I'm asking about is resonators... I'm sure they will absorb certain frequencies in that the acoustical energy is disipated through the movement of the wood, but , also... the wooden structure can resonate like a guitar box.... imagine having about 50 guitars of various sizes, hangin from the ceiling !! If they all had different resonant frequencies, I bet that room would sound good !! |
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| | #23 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London
Posts: 344
| I don't agree that a recording room should be completely neutral. If that was the case we would record and mix in anechoic rooms. Regarding tracking rooms I think they should definitely have its own colour. but it should be a nice enjoyable one. Different kinds of wood certainly give a different sound altough I'm not aware of any study in that field. Different kinds of wood have different absorption coefficients yetI feel that this is something that has not been studied in-depth since in my opinion you can have two materials with similar absorption coefficients but sounding differently since we distinguish timbre from the first reflections we listen from the material. So while wood is reflective so it is a metal plate and gypsum board and they sound quite differently in a room. For example in my country there are several small theaters that use gypsum instead of wood, they sound much worst in my opinion. Both materials are reflective.. About control rooms I prefer to have a balanced sound yet retaining some pleasant listening conditions. I know some people prefer a more dry, almost anechoic environment which is obtained with absorption, I'm more in favour of creating a absorption/diffusion environment.
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| | #24 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 571
| Quote:
Use some logic folks. Inside the instrument is not where the magic is. It is outside where it gels. So why try to record inside a gigantic resonator?
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| | #25 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hamilton, On Canada
Posts: 948
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| | #26 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 4,834
| Quote:
Tell you what - you pony up the cash to build it, and let's see how it turns out. Maybe it'll be fabulous. ![]() --Ethan
__________________ www.realtraps.com The acoustic treatment experts ----------------------- Amazing Telecaster guitar video | |
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| | #27 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 4,834
| Quote:
Quote: |